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From: "Steven J. Long" <slong@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:51:00 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131211175100.GA23382@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1386701201.1145.29.camel@oswin.hackershack.net>

On Tue, Dec 10, 2013, Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-12-10, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013, Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2013-12-09, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > > You're thinking with your x86/amd64 hat on here.
> > 
> > Actually, I probably just underquoted.  I am well-aware that there are
> > issues with ARM, hence my previous suggestion that it might make sense
> > to vary this by profile.
> > 
> 
> Definitely - but then we have to do everything in the profiles, and at
> least for ARM, there are currently 6 profiles, and we're considering
> introducing a 7th (neon), and we will need to add aarch64, which will be
> at least 2 more.  I suppose we could do it in the base arm profile...

I don't think it would make sense to remove networking from any profile.
Far better to develop a 14 profile using dhcpcd and make that work, without
affecting current users. The virtual could be used to add any higher layer
desired, but would not be required.

> > If it actually had collisions with other network managers I think
> > there would be more of a case for removing it.
> > 
> > After all, we stick openrc and portage (the PM) in the stage3 and you
> > don't exactly need those in order to run Gentoo...

Yup. Which is steev's "functional" point, so you seem to be in agreement.

> While you don't need those specifically to run Gentoo, the point of the
> stage3 is to have a workable base to start with.  So people are very
> much free to yank out openrc and put in, say, systemd, and rip out
> portage and add in paludis, if they so choose, and make those available.
> And from the traffic I've seen on the systemd list, it looks like they
> are adding some sort of networking to systemd itself as well, so we
> probably will need a virtual at some point.  My specific point of the
> email though, was you saying that a stage3 in general aren't functional
> - but they are - they are the very base of a functional system, and you
> simply add things on top, or replace things with your preferred methods.
> A stage1 or a stage2 isn't particularly functional.

Agreed. There's no real point in a stage3 that doesn't support some sort
of networking. It's fine to change over, but again that should be done
with a new profile, not by randomly removing netifrc USE default. The
latter may not be "correct" on a purist level, but it's a darn sight
better than breaking installs, and is only a transitional measure.

The transition is much easier to handle as a profile change, for an
end-user, and the experimental profile facilitates modification of base
stages and working on them, without breaking the current setup.

After all, if someone wants to setup a Gentoo install *without* networking
they are very much doing a specialist thing, and can deal with it
themselves. So I don't think we should give too much time to that
use-case, in terms of implementation effort; staying out of the way when
the user tells us to is all that's required, and that's easy: do nothing,
or in this case, don't force any dependencies on higher-level network
managers, unless required for correct functioning.

Regards,
steveL
-- 
#friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)


  reply	other threads:[~2013-12-11 17:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-12-01 10:20 [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up Alessandro DE LAURENZIS
2013-12-01 10:36 ` Alexander V Vershilov
2013-12-02 20:28 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-02 21:19   ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-02 21:24     ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-03 17:32       ` Alexander V Vershilov
2013-12-03 21:11         ` William Hubbs
2013-12-03 21:43           ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-03 23:00             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-03 23:29               ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-04  1:14           ` mingdao
2013-12-04 15:57             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-04 16:46           ` Samuli Suominen
2013-12-04 21:25             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-04 21:30               ` Mike Gilbert
2013-12-04 22:31                 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-04 22:36                   ` Mike Gilbert
2013-12-04 23:42                     ` William Hubbs
2013-12-05 17:03                     ` Samuli Suominen
2013-12-05  8:01                   ` Martin Gysel
2013-12-05  9:23                     ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-04 23:45                 ` Patrick Lauer
2013-12-05  0:13                   ` William Hubbs
2013-12-05  0:20                     ` Patrick Lauer
2013-12-05  0:17                   ` Mike Gilbert
2013-12-05  1:56                     ` William Hubbs
2013-12-06 15:26                       ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-06 15:38                         ` Ben Kohler
2013-12-05  7:39                   ` Alan McKinnon
2013-12-05 12:30                     ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-05 17:01               ` Samuli Suominen
2013-12-07  5:52           ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-07 12:42             ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-07 14:22               ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-07 23:25                 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-08  2:34                   ` Peter Stuge
2013-12-08 22:31                     ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14  6:22               ` Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
2013-12-14 17:18               ` Jeroen Roovers
2013-12-07 15:04             ` Peter Stuge
2013-12-08 22:25             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-09 14:50               ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-09 15:28                 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-09 18:47                   ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-09 19:56                   ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-10  1:33                     ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-10 10:31                       ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-10 11:23                         ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-10 18:46                           ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-11 17:51                             ` Steven J. Long [this message]
2013-12-16 22:33                             ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-11  2:57                     ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14  5:56                       ` Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
2013-12-14 20:13                         ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14 20:47                           ` Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
2013-12-14 21:57                             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14 22:22                               ` Luis Ressel
2013-12-16 22:38                               ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-14 17:24                       ` mingdao
2013-12-15  0:59                         ` William Hubbs
2013-12-15  1:37                           ` mingdao
2013-12-16 22:41                           ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-09 23:30                 ` Patrick Lauer

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