From: "Steven J. Long" <slong@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk>
To: gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: [gentoo-dev] Re: openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:51:00 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131211175100.GA23382@rathaus.eclipse.co.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1386701201.1145.29.camel@oswin.hackershack.net>
On Tue, Dec 10, 2013, Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-12-10, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013, Steev Klimaszewski wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2013-12-09, Rich Freeman wrote:
> > > You're thinking with your x86/amd64 hat on here.
> >
> > Actually, I probably just underquoted. I am well-aware that there are
> > issues with ARM, hence my previous suggestion that it might make sense
> > to vary this by profile.
> >
>
> Definitely - but then we have to do everything in the profiles, and at
> least for ARM, there are currently 6 profiles, and we're considering
> introducing a 7th (neon), and we will need to add aarch64, which will be
> at least 2 more. I suppose we could do it in the base arm profile...
I don't think it would make sense to remove networking from any profile.
Far better to develop a 14 profile using dhcpcd and make that work, without
affecting current users. The virtual could be used to add any higher layer
desired, but would not be required.
> > If it actually had collisions with other network managers I think
> > there would be more of a case for removing it.
> >
> > After all, we stick openrc and portage (the PM) in the stage3 and you
> > don't exactly need those in order to run Gentoo...
Yup. Which is steev's "functional" point, so you seem to be in agreement.
> While you don't need those specifically to run Gentoo, the point of the
> stage3 is to have a workable base to start with. So people are very
> much free to yank out openrc and put in, say, systemd, and rip out
> portage and add in paludis, if they so choose, and make those available.
> And from the traffic I've seen on the systemd list, it looks like they
> are adding some sort of networking to systemd itself as well, so we
> probably will need a virtual at some point. My specific point of the
> email though, was you saying that a stage3 in general aren't functional
> - but they are - they are the very base of a functional system, and you
> simply add things on top, or replace things with your preferred methods.
> A stage1 or a stage2 isn't particularly functional.
Agreed. There's no real point in a stage3 that doesn't support some sort
of networking. It's fine to change over, but again that should be done
with a new profile, not by randomly removing netifrc USE default. The
latter may not be "correct" on a purist level, but it's a darn sight
better than breaking installs, and is only a transitional measure.
The transition is much easier to handle as a profile change, for an
end-user, and the experimental profile facilitates modification of base
stages and working on them, without breaking the current setup.
After all, if someone wants to setup a Gentoo install *without* networking
they are very much doing a specialist thing, and can deal with it
themselves. So I don't think we should give too much time to that
use-case, in terms of implementation effort; staying out of the way when
the user tells us to is all that's required, and that's easy: do nothing,
or in this case, don't force any dependencies on higher-level network
managers, unless required for correct functioning.
Regards,
steveL
--
#friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-12-11 17:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-12-01 10:20 [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up Alessandro DE LAURENZIS
2013-12-01 10:36 ` Alexander V Vershilov
2013-12-02 20:28 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-02 21:19 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-02 21:24 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-03 17:32 ` Alexander V Vershilov
2013-12-03 21:11 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-03 21:43 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-03 23:00 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-03 23:29 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-04 1:14 ` mingdao
2013-12-04 15:57 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-04 16:46 ` Samuli Suominen
2013-12-04 21:25 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-04 21:30 ` Mike Gilbert
2013-12-04 22:31 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-04 22:36 ` Mike Gilbert
2013-12-04 23:42 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-05 17:03 ` Samuli Suominen
2013-12-05 8:01 ` Martin Gysel
2013-12-05 9:23 ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-04 23:45 ` Patrick Lauer
2013-12-05 0:13 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-05 0:20 ` Patrick Lauer
2013-12-05 0:17 ` Mike Gilbert
2013-12-05 1:56 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-06 15:26 ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-06 15:38 ` Ben Kohler
2013-12-05 7:39 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-12-05 12:30 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-05 17:01 ` Samuli Suominen
2013-12-07 5:52 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-07 12:42 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-07 14:22 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-07 23:25 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-08 2:34 ` Peter Stuge
2013-12-08 22:31 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14 6:22 ` Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
2013-12-14 17:18 ` Jeroen Roovers
2013-12-07 15:04 ` Peter Stuge
2013-12-08 22:25 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-09 14:50 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-09 15:28 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-09 18:47 ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-09 19:56 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-10 1:33 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-10 10:31 ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-10 11:23 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-10 18:46 ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-11 17:51 ` Steven J. Long [this message]
2013-12-16 22:33 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-11 2:57 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14 5:56 ` Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
2013-12-14 20:13 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14 20:47 ` Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
2013-12-14 21:57 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14 22:22 ` Luis Ressel
2013-12-16 22:38 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-14 17:24 ` mingdao
2013-12-15 0:59 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-15 1:37 ` mingdao
2013-12-16 22:41 ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-09 23:30 ` Patrick Lauer
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