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From: "Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto" <jmbsvicetto@gentoo.org>
To: gentoo-dev <gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2013 06:22:41 +0000 (UTC)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1312140614050.28909@woodpecker.gentoo.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGfcS_kZNmMs5cTGhAp8PPL2gS8_z8nVQ8PRxK1EUiosevAnhg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 7 Dec 2013, Rich Freeman wrote:

> On Sat, Dec 7, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
> <zerochaos@gentoo.org> wrote:

<snip>

>> Honestly, I'm not really sure why anyone would want to make stage3 less
>> functional than it already is but honestly net isn't something I'm ready
>> to give up just yet.
>
> It isn't about making the stage3 less functional, but about giving the
> user a choice.  We don't stick a kernel in stage3, despite the fact
> that everybody needs one.  We don't stick an MTA in the stage3 despite
> the fact that one of those is pretty hard to live without.
>
> Now that Gentoo apparently offers a wide selection of network
> managers, perhaps it makes sense to have the user pick which one they
> want to use.
>
> IMHO the purpose of @system and the stage3 is to solve the circular
> dependency problem inherent in bootstrapping.  It really shouldn't
> contain anything beyond this.  By all means have an @useful-utils set
> or some kind of profile that auto-installs a list of packages like
> openssh, vim, and so on.  However, these are not required to bootstrap
> a system and I'm not sure why we should be forcing them into the
> @system set as a result.

I disagree with you about this - stage3 and @system are not the same.
The purpose of a stage3 is to provide the minimum "sane" environment to do 
an install. We provide some packages because of "convenience".
So even though someone might not want to connect remotely,  there's no 
valid reason to drop openssh from a stage3. Just like we'll  keep 
providing nano and less in the stages - they may not be needed, but 
it makes sense to provide them.

> Another option would be to have things installed in the stage3 that
> are not part of the @system set, so that they would be depcleaned at a
> later date.  I'm not a big fan of that, however, mainly because it
> could be a curve-ball for somebody to deal with after they think
> they've gotten everything working.  I think users will have a better
> understanding of how their system is set up if they put things there
> than if things start out there but get yanked out from under them.

There's an open bug about this - 
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393445

Some of the previous comments are based with this bug in mind.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-12-14  6:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 63+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-12-01 10:20 [gentoo-dev] openrc 0.12 - netifrc/newnet mix-up Alessandro DE LAURENZIS
2013-12-01 10:36 ` Alexander V Vershilov
2013-12-02 20:28 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-02 21:19   ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-02 21:24     ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-03 17:32       ` Alexander V Vershilov
2013-12-03 21:11         ` William Hubbs
2013-12-03 21:43           ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-03 23:00             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-03 23:29               ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-04  1:14           ` mingdao
2013-12-04 15:57             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-04 16:46           ` Samuli Suominen
2013-12-04 21:25             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-04 21:30               ` Mike Gilbert
2013-12-04 22:31                 ` William Hubbs
2013-12-04 22:36                   ` Mike Gilbert
2013-12-04 23:42                     ` William Hubbs
2013-12-05 17:03                     ` Samuli Suominen
2013-12-05  8:01                   ` Martin Gysel
2013-12-05  9:23                     ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-04 23:45                 ` Patrick Lauer
2013-12-05  0:13                   ` William Hubbs
2013-12-05  0:20                     ` Patrick Lauer
2013-12-05  0:17                   ` Mike Gilbert
2013-12-05  1:56                     ` William Hubbs
2013-12-06 15:26                       ` Ian Stakenvicius
2013-12-06 15:38                         ` Ben Kohler
2013-12-05  7:39                   ` Alan McKinnon
2013-12-05 12:30                     ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-05 17:01               ` Samuli Suominen
2013-12-07  5:52           ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-07 12:42             ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-07 14:22               ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-07 23:25                 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-08  2:34                   ` Peter Stuge
2013-12-08 22:31                     ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14  6:22               ` Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto [this message]
2013-12-14 17:18               ` Jeroen Roovers
2013-12-07 15:04             ` Peter Stuge
2013-12-08 22:25             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-09 14:50               ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-09 15:28                 ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-09 18:47                   ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-09 19:56                   ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-10  1:33                     ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-10 10:31                       ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-10 11:23                         ` Rich Freeman
2013-12-10 18:46                           ` Steev Klimaszewski
2013-12-11 17:51                             ` [gentoo-dev] " Steven J. Long
2013-12-16 22:33                             ` [gentoo-dev] " Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-11  2:57                     ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14  5:56                       ` Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
2013-12-14 20:13                         ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14 20:47                           ` Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
2013-12-14 21:57                             ` William Hubbs
2013-12-14 22:22                               ` Luis Ressel
2013-12-16 22:38                               ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-14 17:24                       ` mingdao
2013-12-15  0:59                         ` William Hubbs
2013-12-15  1:37                           ` mingdao
2013-12-16 22:41                           ` Rick "Zero_Chaos" Farina
2013-12-09 23:30                 ` Patrick Lauer

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