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* [gentoo-user] USE flags information resource
@ 2006-12-27  1:38 Alan E. Davis
  2006-12-27  2:00 ` Thomas Tuttle
       [not found] ` <4597A9E7.10505@planet.nl>
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Alan E. Davis @ 2006-12-27  1:38 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

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After about a year of using Gentoo, I am very pleased.  Not being a
programmer, I do tend to spend alot of time on that learning curve.  It has
become more and more apparent in the past couple of months that USE flags
really *are* as fantastic as they are cracked up to be, in at least one
way---they enable the tuning of each package within whatever parameters are
available for that package.  Nothing even close to that is available on
other distros I have used (well, slackware had at least emacs-nox, I
guess).

Like my 4 year old son, I learn about the system by pounding on keys.  I
have always tended to tank up on caffeine before an install session, and
install everything I can get my hands on.   Some of them wouldn't work, but
that was just, as I understood, the law of probability in action.  I have
been getting wiser and wiser at fixing broken merges, and often it has
required to take some time, read the output, and reinstall some dependency
with a USE flag enabled or disabled.  I have been learning to take it slow
in installing packages, check out the situation before doing the actual
merge itself.  This is just as important as the docs said, despite my hurly
burly approach.

I have had it in mind to post about this, but now I think I have a
suggestion that may be useful:

I wiki about USE flags would be extremely useful.  Am I the only one, or are
newbies the only ones who encounter USE flags with cryptic significance?
The descriptions from euse, profuse, etc., are a bit of a help alot of the
time; however, some use flags would bear some serious explanation!   Is
something now available that would provide this functionality?  I am not
wise to the world of wikis (my sole attempt to edit wikipedia was a dismal
failture, even though I am pretty literate in LaTeX); however I would be
willing to put something simple together with some help.

Alan

-- 
Alan Davis, Kagman High School, Saipan  lngndvs@gmail.com     1-670-256-2043

I consider that the golden rule requires that if I like a program I must
share it with other people who like it.
                                          --------Richard Stallman

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] USE flags information resource
  2006-12-27  1:38 [gentoo-user] USE flags information resource Alan E. Davis
@ 2006-12-27  2:00 ` Thomas Tuttle
       [not found] ` <4597A9E7.10505@planet.nl>
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Thomas Tuttle @ 2006-12-27  2:00 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

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On December 26 at 20:38 EST, Alan E. Davis hastily scribbled:
> I wiki about USE flags would be extremely useful.  Am I the only one, or are
> newbies the only ones who encounter USE flags with cryptic significance?
> The descriptions from euse, profuse, etc., are a bit of a help alot of the
> time; however, some use flags would bear some serious explanation!   Is
> something now available that would provide this functionality?

http://www.gentoo-wiki.com/ has some good articles (not a specific index 
of USE flags, but good tutorials and stuff) and might be a good place to 
put the article(s) you'd like to write.

> I am not wise to the world of wikis (my sole attempt to edit wikipedia was
> a dismal failture, even though I am pretty literate in LaTeX); however
> I would be willing to put something simple together with some help.

Er, Wikipedia doesn't use LaTeX except in math articles.

This sounds like a good idea.  You should start an article on 
Gentoo-Wiki.com if nobody else has.

--Thomas Tuttle

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] USE flags information resource
       [not found] ` <4597A9E7.10505@planet.nl>
@ 2007-01-01  3:52   ` Alan E. Davis
  2007-01-01 11:25     ` Strong Cypher
  2007-01-02  7:37     ` Alan McKinnon
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Alan E. Davis @ 2007-01-01  3:52 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

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On 12/31/06, Aniruddha <mailing_list@planet.nl> wrote:
>
>  I think this is an excellent idea! For starters you can use euse:
>
> # euse -i useflagname
>

I already use euse.  It is really helpful.   The short descriptions of the
USE flags are often helpful.  Just as often, they are not informative enough
to enable me, at least, to make an informed decision.  A little more
information would often have helped.

Do you have any ideas about a next step?

Alan

-- 
Alan Davis, Kagman High School, Saipan  lngndvs@gmail.com     1-670-256-2043

I consider that the golden rule requires that if I like a program I must
share it with other people who like it.              --------Richard
Stallman

Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the absolute rejection
of authority.  ----- Thomas H. Huxley

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] USE flags information resource
  2007-01-01  3:52   ` Alan E. Davis
@ 2007-01-01 11:25     ` Strong Cypher
  2007-01-02  7:37     ` Alan McKinnon
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Strong Cypher @ 2007-01-01 11:25 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

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have you try ufed ???

they set global use flag, you can activate or desactivate default behavior
of use in emerging

but I love this program :)

they give description of all use, where they are use ...

just try it

have fun

2007/1/1, Alan E. Davis <lngndvs@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> On 12/31/06, Aniruddha <mailing_list@planet.nl> wrote:
> >
> >  I think this is an excellent idea! For starters you can use euse:
> >
> > # euse -i useflagname
> >
>
> I already use euse.  It is really helpful.   The short descriptions of the
> USE flags are often helpful.  Just as often, they are not informative enough
> to enable me, at least, to make an informed decision.  A little more
> information would often have helped.
>
> Do you have any ideas about a next step?
>
> Alan
>
> --
> Alan Davis, Kagman High School, Saipan  lngndvs@gmail.com
> 1-670-256-2043
>
> I consider that the golden rule requires that if I like a program I must
> share it with other people who like it.              --------Richard
> Stallman
>
> Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the absolute
> rejection of authority.  ----- Thomas H. Huxley

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] USE flags information resource
  2007-01-01  3:52   ` Alan E. Davis
  2007-01-01 11:25     ` Strong Cypher
@ 2007-01-02  7:37     ` Alan McKinnon
  2007-01-02 13:35       ` Alan E. Davis
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Alan McKinnon @ 2007-01-02  7:37 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Monday 01 January 2007 05:52, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> On 12/31/06, Aniruddha <mailing_list@planet.nl> wrote:
> >  I think this is an excellent idea! For starters you can use euse:
> >
> > # euse -i useflagname
>
> I already use euse.  It is really helpful.   The short descriptions
> of the USE flags are often helpful.  Just as often, they are not
> informative enough to enable me, at least, to make an informed
> decision.  A little more information would often have helped.
>
> Do you have any ideas about a next step?
>
> Alan

AFAIK the only references to what the flags mean 
is /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc. To find out more, read the ebuild to 
see/divine what the developer has in mind with that flag. For instance, 
kdebase-3.5.5-r3 has amongst others the following:

DEPEND="arts? ( ~kde-base/arts-${PV} )
        >=media-libs/freetype-2
        media-libs/fontconfig
        pam? ( kde-base/kdebase-pam )
        >=dev-libs/cyrus-sasl-2
        ldap? ( >=net-nds/openldap-2 )
        cups? ( net-print/cups )
        ...

So you would have to look into those various optional packages, find out 
what they are, then look into kdebase a bit deeper and find what it 
does with those optional packages. For example, the 'ldap' flag causes 
kdebase to be built against net-nds/openldap.

The point is that it's simply not possible to give detailed info about 
USE flags most of the time, and some intense RTFCing and research is 
involved

alan

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] USE flags information resource
  2007-01-02  7:37     ` Alan McKinnon
@ 2007-01-02 13:35       ` Alan E. Davis
  2007-01-02 14:59         ` Alan McKinnon
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Alan E. Davis @ 2007-01-02 13:35 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

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Thank you for the insight, Alan.  I am just getting to the point of
understanding this.  As a non -developer/programmer I have been at a loss to
understand these basic points about USE flags.  Over time, they begin to
make sense.  Your pointer about the ebuilds is extremely valuable.

Maybe it's just me, in my cluelessness?  Some flags have not been obvious to
me; others have been ambiguous, at least to me.  Maybe digging for all this
is what makes Gentoo such an excellent experience.  On the other hand, a
little more clarity would not hurt, IMHO.  Beggars can't be choicy, but is
it really not possible to provide a slightly clearer explanation of what a
USE flag does?  I'd better shut up.

Alan


On 1/2/07, Alan McKinnon <alan@linuxholdings.co.za> wrote:
>
> On Monday 01 January 2007 05:52, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> > On 12/31/06, Aniruddha <mailing_list@planet.nl> wrote:
> > >  I think this is an excellent idea! For starters you can use euse:
> > >
> > > # euse -i useflagname
> >
> > I already use euse.  It is really helpful.   The short descriptions
> > of the USE flags are often helpful.  Just as often, they are not
> > informative enough to enable me, at least, to make an informed
> > decision.  A little more information would often have helped.
> >
> > Do you have any ideas about a next step?
> >
> > Alan
>
> AFAIK the only references to what the flags mean
> is /usr/portage/profiles/use.desc. To find out more, read the ebuild to
> see/divine what the developer has in mind with that flag. For instance,
> kdebase-3.5.5-r3 has amongst others the following:
>
> DEPEND="arts? ( ~kde-base/arts-${PV} )
>         >=media-libs/freetype-2
>         media-libs/fontconfig
>         pam? ( kde-base/kdebase-pam )
>         >=dev-libs/cyrus-sasl-2
>         ldap? ( >=net-nds/openldap-2 )
>         cups? ( net-print/cups )
>         ...
>
> So you would have to look into those various optional packages, find out
> what they are, then look into kdebase a bit deeper and find what it
> does with those optional packages. For example, the 'ldap' flag causes
> kdebase to be built against net-nds/openldap.
>
> The point is that it's simply not possible to give detailed info about
> USE flags most of the time, and some intense RTFCing and research is
> involved
>
> alan
>
> --
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
>
>


-- 
Alan Davis, Kagman High School, Saipan  lngndvs@gmail.com     1-670-256-2043

I consider that the golden rule requires that if I like a program I must
share it with other people who like it.              --------Richard
Stallman

Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the absolute rejection
of authority.  ----- Thomas H. Huxley

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] USE flags information resource
  2007-01-02 13:35       ` Alan E. Davis
@ 2007-01-02 14:59         ` Alan McKinnon
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Alan McKinnon @ 2007-01-02 14:59 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Tuesday 02 January 2007 15:35, Alan E. Davis wrote:
> Thank you for the insight, Alan.  I am just getting to the point of
> understanding this.  As a non -developer/programmer I have been at a
> loss to understand these basic points about USE flags.  Over time,
> they begin to make sense.  Your pointer about the ebuilds is
> extremely valuable.

You're welcome

> Maybe it's just me, in my cluelessness?  Some flags have not been
> obvious to me; others have been ambiguous, at least to me.  Maybe
> digging for all this is what makes Gentoo such an excellent
> experience.  On the other hand, a little more clarity would not hurt,
> IMHO.  Beggars can't be choicy, but is it really not possible to
> provide a slightly clearer explanation of what a USE flag does?  I'd
> better shut up.

They are just another one of those things that are the way they are 
because someone made them that way, and the existing descriptions of 
USE flags are meant to be meaningful in one sentence. Returning to the 
kdebase example:

[snip]

> > DEPEND="arts? ( ~kde-base/arts-${PV} )
> >
> >         >=media-libs/freetype-2
> >
> >         media-libs/fontconfig
> >         pam? ( kde-base/kdebase-pam )
> >
> >         >=dev-libs/cyrus-sasl-2
> >
> >         ldap? ( >=net-nds/openldap-2 )
> >         cups? ( net-print/cups )

There are 3 flags there: pam, ldap and cups and the only thing anyone 
can tell you about them is that they respectively enable pam, ldap and 
cups support inside kdebase. As to what that means, you will have to 
look at the kdebase documentation to find out what that package does 
with pam.

xscreensavers also has a pam USE flag, and the way it uses pam might be 
essentially the same as what kdebase does with it. Or it might not. It 
all depends on how xscreensavers was written, and this is outside 
gentoo's control.

I understand you would like more clarity and I get the kind of list you 
would like to have. I want you to grasp though that this is not really 
possible in any thorough way. A detailed explanation of what the USE 
flags means inside each ebuild that uses it is something you might 
suggest, but I'll bet money that you will be shot down in flames for 
suggesting it. It will be a lot of extra work on top of a lot of 
existing work, for precious little benefit as the info is usually 
documented elsewhere in the package itself. And we are supposed to all 
know how to RTFM right?

Welcome to the wonderful world of computing where nothing is as it first 
seems :-)



alan

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2007-01-02 15:04 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2006-12-27  1:38 [gentoo-user] USE flags information resource Alan E. Davis
2006-12-27  2:00 ` Thomas Tuttle
     [not found] ` <4597A9E7.10505@planet.nl>
2007-01-01  3:52   ` Alan E. Davis
2007-01-01 11:25     ` Strong Cypher
2007-01-02  7:37     ` Alan McKinnon
2007-01-02 13:35       ` Alan E. Davis
2007-01-02 14:59         ` Alan McKinnon

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