[gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:

layman -S
emerge --sync
emerge -pvDuN world
emerge -pv --depclean
eclean -p distfiles
eclean -p packages

And then attended like this:

emerge -DuN world
revdep-rebuild
etc-update
elogv
emerge --depclean
eclean distfiles
eclean packages

Am I missing any good stuff?

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[nybblenybblebyte]

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Why with the pretend option? Checking to see if it's needed?

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----
From: Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com>
To: Gentoo mailing list <gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>
Sent: Wed, Dec 5, 2012 00:34:37 GMT+00:00
Subject: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:

layman -S
emerge --sync
emerge -pvDuN world
emerge -pv --depclean
eclean -p distfiles
eclean -p packages

And then attended like this:

emerge -DuN world
revdep-rebuild
etc-update
elogv
emerge --depclean
eclean distfiles
eclean packages

Am I missing any good stuff?

- Grant


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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Dale]

Grant wrote:
> My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
>
> layman -S
> emerge --sync
> emerge -pvDuN world
> emerge -pv --depclean
> eclean -p distfiles
> eclean -p packages
>
> And then attended like this:
>
> emerge -DuN world
> revdep-rebuild
> etc-update
> elogv
> emerge --depclean
> eclean distfiles
> eclean packages
>
> Am I missing any good stuff?
>
> - Grant


I would use the -a option unless the output of the first part is being
emailed to you or something. 

Other than using -a instead of -p, I don't see anything missing.  Just
check the USE flags before letting it update.  They get changed
sometimes and it could cause issues.  Sometimes the change is for the
good so always look into it first. 

You *may* want to look into dispatch-conf too.  It does the same as
etc-update but it keeps records in case a updated config file borks your
system.  Just a thought. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Neil Bothwick]

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Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
> 
> layman -S
> emerge --sync
> emerge -pvDuN world
> emerge -pv --depclean
> eclean -p distfiles
> eclean -p packages
> 
> And then attended like this:
> 
> emerge -DuN world
> revdep-rebuild
> etc-update
> elogv
> emerge --depclean
> eclean distfiles
> eclean packages
> 
> Am I missing any good stuff?
> 
> - Grant

The first depclean is redundant, you haven't updated anything so it won't show anything useful. I only run depclean and revdep-rebuild weekly,I don't see a need to routinely do it more often, especially on slower systems. I do run eix-update and eix-update-remote after my daily sync.I run eix-test-obsolete from the weekly cron script.

Frequent cleaning of packages is not a good idea IMO, I like to keep the old veraions around for at least a few days, in case something unpleasant shows up and I want to roll back.

I also have portage mail elog messages to me, so I don't bother with elogv.
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Pandu Poluan]

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On Dec 5, 2012 7:34 AM, "Grant" <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
>
> layman -S
> emerge --sync
> emerge -pvDuN world
> emerge -pv --depclean
> eclean -p distfiles
> eclean -p packages
>
> And then attended like this:
>
> emerge -DuN world
> revdep-rebuild
> etc-update
> elogv
> emerge --depclean
> eclean distfiles
> eclean packages
>
> Am I missing any good stuff?
>
> - Grant

There's an incantation that makes emerge download the source files but
don't actually emerge them, yet. Will save a lot of time during attended
sessions if your Internet connection is kind of not fast.

Can someone help me refresh my mind?

Rgds,
--

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Allan Gottlieb]

On Tue, Dec 04 2012, Pandu Poluan wrote:

> On Dec 5, 2012 7:34 AM, "Grant" <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
>>
>> layman -S
>> emerge --sync
>> emerge -pvDuN world
>> emerge -pv --depclean
>> eclean -p distfiles
>> eclean -p packages
>>
>> And then attended like this:
>>
>> emerge -DuN world
>> revdep-rebuild
>> etc-update
>> elogv
>> emerge --depclean
>> eclean distfiles
>> eclean packages
>>
>> Am I missing any good stuff?
>>
>> - Grant
>
> There's an incantation that makes emerge download the source files but
> don't actually emerge them, yet. Will save a lot of time during attended
> sessions if your Internet connection is kind of not fast.
>
> Can someone help me refresh my mind?
>
> Rgds,
> --

--fetchonly -f   (can also see -F --fetch-all-uri)

allan

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Dale]

Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
>
> There's an incantation that makes emerge download the source files but
> don't actually emerge them, yet. Will save a lot of time during
> attended sessions if your Internet connection is kind of not fast.
>
> Can someone help me refresh my mind?
>
> Rgds,
>

That would be the -f option.  Short for fetch. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> > My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
> >
> > layman -S
> > emerge --sync
> > emerge -pvDuN world
> > emerge -pv --depclean
> > eclean -p distfiles
> > eclean -p packages
> >
> > And then attended like this:
> >
> > emerge -DuN world
> > revdep-rebuild
> > etc-update
> > elogv
> > emerge --depclean
> > eclean distfiles
> > eclean packages
> >
> > Am I missing any good stuff?
> >
> > - Grant
>
>
> I would use the -a option unless the output of the first part is being
> emailed to you or something.

Exactly, it's being emailed to me and I should have said so.

> Other than using -a instead of -p, I don't see anything missing.  Just
> check the USE flags before letting it update.  They get changed
> sometimes and it could cause issues.  Sometimes the change is for the
> good so always look into it first.
>
> You *may* want to look into dispatch-conf too.  It does the same as
> etc-update but it keeps records in case a updated config file borks your
> system.  Just a thought.

I will do that.  dispatch-conf sounds like a good thing.

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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>> My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
>>
>> layman -S
>> emerge --sync
>> emerge -pvDuN world
>> emerge -pv --depclean
>> eclean -p distfiles
>> eclean -p packages
>>
>> And then attended like this:
>>
>> emerge -DuN world
>> revdep-rebuild
>> etc-update
>> elogv
>> emerge --depclean
>> eclean distfiles
>> eclean packages
>>
>> Am I missing any good stuff?
>>
>> - Grant
>
>
> The first depclean is redundant, you haven't updated anything so it won't
show anything useful. I only run depclean and revdep-rebuild weekly,I don't
see a need to routinely do it more often, especially on slower systems. I
do run eix-update and eix-update-remote after my daily sync.I run
eix-test-obsolete from the weekly cron script.

I should have said that I'm emailed the results of the first set of
commands so the first depclean is there to let me know what would be
removed after yesterday's update.

eix-test-obsolete sounds nice.  New addition!

> Frequent cleaning of packages is not a good idea IMO, I like to keep the
old veraions around for at least a few days, in case something unpleasant
shows up and I want to roll back.

I think you're right about that.  Can I configure eclean to wait a certain
number of days since a package was removed before cleaning it?  Even if I
only run it once per week, it could remove a package that was updated
yesterday that I find out I need tomorrow.

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Dale]

Grant wrote:
>
> I think you're right about that.  Can I configure eclean to wait a
> certain number of days since a package was removed before cleaning it?
>  Even if I only run it once per week, it could remove a package that
> was updated yesterday that I find out I need tomorrow.
>
> - Grant


-t, --time-limit=<time>    don't delete files modified since <time>
<time> is an amount of time: "1y" is "one year", "2w" is "two weeks", etc.
Units are: y (years), m (months), w (weeks), d (days) and h (hours).

I found that in man eclean.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> > I think you're right about that.  Can I configure eclean to wait a
> > certain number of days since a package was removed before cleaning it?
> >  Even if I only run it once per week, it could remove a package that
> > was updated yesterday that I find out I need tomorrow.
> >
> > - Grant
>
>
> -t, --time-limit=<time>    don't delete files modified since <time>
> <time> is an amount of time: "1y" is "one year", "2w" is "two weeks", etc.
> Units are: y (years), m (months), w (weeks), d (days) and h (hours).

Thanks Dale.

> I found that in man eclean.

I'm sorry, I didn't consider a parameter like that for some reason.

Should it be alright to depclean every day?  As long as I use --time-limit
with 'eclean packages', I should be able to reinstall anything that
depclean removes even if it's pruned from Portage.

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 16:30:33 -0800
Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
> 
> layman -S
> emerge --sync
> emerge -pvDuN world
> emerge -pv --depclean
> eclean -p distfiles
> eclean -p packages
> 
> And then attended like this:
> 
> 
> revdep-rebuild
> etc-update
> elogv
> emerge --depclean
> eclean distfiles
> eclean packages
> 
> Am I missing any good stuff?
> 
> - Grant


I'd tweak the order of your attended run:

emerge -DuN world
emerge @preserved-rebuild
emerge --depclean
revdep-rebuild


The logic is:

Rebuild busted packages that portage already knows about
(@preserved-rebuild), then get rid of oudated packages and finally
revdep-rebuild to fix anything that --depclean broke.

@preserved-rebuild is getting very good at what it does lately
(supported in all recent portage version including stable IIRC), as is
--depclean, so revdep-rebuild seldom finds anything to do these days.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Dale]

Grant wrote:
> > > I think you're right about that.  Can I configure eclean to wait a
> > > certain number of days since a package was removed before cleaning it?
> > >  Even if I only run it once per week, it could remove a package that
> > > was updated yesterday that I find out I need tomorrow.
> > >
> > > - Grant
> >
> >
> > -t, --time-limit=<time>    don't delete files modified since <time>
> > <time> is an amount of time: "1y" is "one year", "2w" is "two
> weeks", etc.
> > Units are: y (years), m (months), w (weeks), d (days) and h (hours).
>
> Thanks Dale.
>
> > I found that in man eclean.
>
> I'm sorry, I didn't consider a parameter like that for some reason.

It actually has quite a few options.  I rarely use them on my new rig
but did on my old rig.  My old rig is MUCH slower than this new one.

>
> Should it be alright to depclean every day?  As long as I use
> --time-limit with 'eclean packages', I should be able to reinstall
> anything that depclean removes even if it's pruned from Portage.
>
> - Grant

I run depclean about once a month after a large update, usually KDE, qt
or something like that.  I sync and update about twice a week.  I try to
time mine to hit those important updates to things like KDE or
something.  I'm actually waiting on KDE 4.9.4 to hit the tree now.  It
should be there pretty soon, if there is no major problems.

I would set a rough update time schedule. If say you set yours to update
every week, then keep two maybe three weeks of old packages.  If a
package can work for a few weeks, survive reboots and a couple updates,
then odds are it is safe to remove the binaries you built for it.  The
sources, I usually only keep what I have installed.  Most of the time
that is enough.  If you have the hard drive space, you can keep them
like you do the binary package.  If you pick a monthly update time
frame, then adjust your time frame for old packages.  You may can keep
less of them depending on how you run your rig. 

When you use eclean and friends with no options, it seems to leave a
pretty good set of binaries behind.  It leaves what is installed plus a
older version or two.  It's been a while since i really looked into this
but it seems to have a fairly safe setting when you just run the plain
command with no options.  When you use the -d option, it leaves only
what you have installed and gets rid of everything else.  The -d option
is about the most aggressive option for eclean.

This is just to give you ideas.  This is one of those 'it depends'
questions.  The technically correct way is to run depclean after each
full update.  Thing is, I doubt it will hurt anything if you leave them
on there except for taking up drive space.

Just don't forget to update the configs after each update.  Sometimes
missing those can lead to a system that won't boot.  It's not very
likely but they do happen from time to time. 

Another thing about my system that may help you, I keep a copy of /etc
and my world file backed up.  When I reboot, which is not to often, I
make a new backup of /etc.  Right now, my uptime is almost 75 days.  I
keep that backup just in case something will only break when rebooting. 
Some config files are only read when booting so until you reboot, you
don't know you have a problem.  Having a copy of the world file is good
in case you lose the drive with the OS on it.  You can at least know
what you need to emerge to get back to where you were. 

Hope that helps.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 20:04:30 -0800, Grant wrote:

> > The first depclean is redundant, you haven't updated anything so it
> > won't  
>> show anything useful. I only run depclean and revdep-rebuild weekly,I
>> don't see a need to routinely do it more often, especially on slower
>> systems. I do run eix-update and eix-update-remote after my daily
>> sync.I run eix-test-obsolete from the weekly cron script.
>> 
> I should have said that I'm emailed the results of the first set of
> commands so the first depclean is there to let me know what would be
> removed after yesterday's update.

But you ran depclean manually after yesterday's update, so it should show
nothing.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

CPU: (n.) acronym for Central Purging Unit. A device which discards or
distorts data sent to it, sometimes returning more data and sometimes
merely over-heating.

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> > > The first depclean is redundant, you haven't updated anything so it
> > > won't
> >> show anything useful. I only run depclean and revdep-rebuild weekly,I
> >> don't see a need to routinely do it more often, especially on slower
> >> systems. I do run eix-update and eix-update-remote after my daily
> >> sync.I run eix-test-obsolete from the weekly cron script.
> >>
> > I should have said that I'm emailed the results of the first set of
> > commands so the first depclean is there to let me know what would be
> > removed after yesterday's update.
>
> But you ran depclean manually after yesterday's update, so it should show
> nothing.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick

You're right, I'm not sure what I was thinking.

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> > My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
> >
> > layman -S
> > emerge --sync
> > emerge -pvDuN world
> > emerge -pv --depclean
> > eclean -p distfiles
> > eclean -p packages
> >
> > And then attended like this:
> >
> >
> > revdep-rebuild
> > etc-update
> > elogv
> > emerge --depclean
> > eclean distfiles
> > eclean packages
> >
> > Am I missing any good stuff?
> >
> > - Grant
>
>
> I'd tweak the order of your attended run:
>
> emerge -DuN world
> emerge @preserved-rebuild
> emerge --depclean
> revdep-rebuild
>
>
> The logic is:
>
> Rebuild busted packages that portage already knows about
> (@preserved-rebuild), then get rid of oudated packages and finally
> revdep-rebuild to fix anything that --depclean broke.
>
> @preserved-rebuild is getting very good at what it does lately
> (supported in all recent portage version including stable IIRC), as is
> --depclean, so revdep-rebuild seldom finds anything to do these days.
>
> --
> Alan McKinnon

If revdep-rebuild does everything that @preserved-rebuild does and more,
why run @preserved-rebuild at all?

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> I run depclean about once a month after a large update, usually KDE, qt
> or something like that.  I sync and update about twice a week.  I try to
> time mine to hit those important updates to things like KDE or
> something.  I'm actually waiting on KDE 4.9.4 to hit the tree now.  It
> should be there pretty soon, if there is no major problems.
>
> I would set a rough update time schedule. If say you set yours to update
> every week, then keep two maybe three weeks of old packages.  If a
> package can work for a few weeks, survive reboots and a couple updates,
> then odds are it is safe to remove the binaries you built for it.  The
> sources, I usually only keep what I have installed.  Most of the time
> that is enough.  If you have the hard drive space, you can keep them
> like you do the binary package.  If you pick a monthly update time
> frame, then adjust your time frame for old packages.  You may can keep
> less of them depending on how you run your rig.
>
> When you use eclean and friends with no options, it seems to leave a
> pretty good set of binaries behind.  It leaves what is installed plus a
> older version or two.  It's been a while since i really looked into this
> but it seems to have a fairly safe setting when you just run the plain
> command with no options.  When you use the -d option, it leaves only
> what you have installed and gets rid of everything else.  The -d option
> is about the most aggressive option for eclean.
>
> This is just to give you ideas.  This is one of those 'it depends'
> questions.  The technically correct way is to run depclean after each
> full update.  Thing is, I doubt it will hurt anything if you leave them
> on there except for taking up drive space.
>
> Just don't forget to update the configs after each update.  Sometimes
> missing those can lead to a system that won't boot.  It's not very
> likely but they do happen from time to time.
>
> Another thing about my system that may help you, I keep a copy of /etc
> and my world file backed up.  When I reboot, which is not to often, I
> make a new backup of /etc.  Right now, my uptime is almost 75 days.  I
> keep that backup just in case something will only break when rebooting.
> Some config files are only read when booting so until you reboot, you
> don't know you have a problem.  Having a copy of the world file is good
> in case you lose the drive with the OS on it.  You can at least know
> what you need to emerge to get back to where you were.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Dale

Thanks Dale.

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:56:18 -0800, Grant wrote:

> > @preserved-rebuild is getting very good at what it does lately
> > (supported in all recent portage version including stable IIRC), as is
> > --depclean, so revdep-rebuild seldom finds anything to do these days.

> If revdep-rebuild does everything that @preserved-rebuild does and more,
> why run @preserved-rebuild at all?

revdep-rebuild repairs a system broken by updates. @preserved-rebuild
prevents updates breaking the system by emerge not removing old versions
of libraries until nothing needs them. If you don't run it, those old
libraries will remain forever.

revdep-rebuild is a kludge, a useful, valuable and previously essential
kludge, but a kludge nonetheless. Not needing it is a good thing.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Taglines are like cars - You get a good one, then someone nicks it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 16:56:18 -0800
Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
> > >
> > > layman -S
> > > emerge --sync
> > > emerge -pvDuN world
> > > emerge -pv --depclean
> > > eclean -p distfiles
> > > eclean -p packages
> > >
> > > And then attended like this:
> > >
> > >
> > > revdep-rebuild
> > > etc-update
> > > elogv
> > > emerge --depclean
> > > eclean distfiles
> > > eclean packages
> > >
> > > Am I missing any good stuff?
> > >
> > > - Grant
> >
> >
> > I'd tweak the order of your attended run:
> >
> > emerge -DuN world
> > emerge @preserved-rebuild
> > emerge --depclean
> > revdep-rebuild
> >
> >
> > The logic is:
> >
> > Rebuild busted packages that portage already knows about
> > (@preserved-rebuild), then get rid of oudated packages and finally
> > revdep-rebuild to fix anything that --depclean broke.
> >
> > @preserved-rebuild is getting very good at what it does lately
> > (supported in all recent portage version including stable IIRC), as
> > is --depclean, so revdep-rebuild seldom finds anything to do these
> > days.
> >
> > --
> > Alan McKinnon
> 
> If revdep-rebuild does everything that @preserved-rebuild does and
> more, why run @preserved-rebuild at all?

@preserved-rebuild does it correctly, does not break your system and
does not leave it in an indeterminate state while you spend hours
trying to figure out what went on.

revdep-rebuild does all those things (and also gets around to fixing
broken libs while taking it's own sweet time to do it).

So they are not really the same thing at all.

Basically, portage removes old .so files when doing upgrades. If the
so-name changes, packages using that file are now broken.
revdep-rebuild was a phase 1 effort to repair that damage after the
fact, and it was good at that.

@preserved-rebuild is a feature in portage that won't remove old .so
files until the last binary linking to it is removed. IOW, things still
work meanwhile. It's analogous to the Unix style of deleting files - if
you app still has a handle to a file and the file is deleted, your app
does not notice the difference as from it's POV the delete has not
happened yet


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> > > The logic is:
> > >
> > > Rebuild busted packages that portage already knows about
> > > (@preserved-rebuild), then get rid of oudated packages and finally
> > > revdep-rebuild to fix anything that --depclean broke.
> > >
> > > @preserved-rebuild is getting very good at what it does lately
> > > (supported in all recent portage version including stable IIRC), as
> > > is --depclean, so revdep-rebuild seldom finds anything to do these
> > > days.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alan McKinnon
> >
> > If revdep-rebuild does everything that @preserved-rebuild does and
> > more, why run @preserved-rebuild at all?
>
> @preserved-rebuild does it correctly, does not break your system and
> does not leave it in an indeterminate state while you spend hours
> trying to figure out what went on.
>
> revdep-rebuild does all those things (and also gets around to fixing
> broken libs while taking it's own sweet time to do it).
>
> So they are not really the same thing at all.

I'm not saying they're the same, I'm saying it looks like
@preserved-rebuild does a subset of the things revdep-rebuild does.  Why
run @preserved-rebuild followed by revdep-rebuild if the end result is the
same as running revdep-rebuild?  I'm sure I'm missing something here but I
don't know what it is.

- Grant


> Basically, portage removes old .so files when doing upgrades. If the
> so-name changes, packages using that file are now broken.
> revdep-rebuild was a phase 1 effort to repair that damage after the
> fact, and it was good at that.
>
> @preserved-rebuild is a feature in portage that won't remove old .so
> files until the last binary linking to it is removed. IOW, things still
> work meanwhile. It's analogous to the Unix style of deleting files - if
> you app still has a handle to a file and the file is deleted, your app
> does not notice the difference as from it's POV the delete has not
> happened yet

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 13:07:28 -0800
Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> > So they are not really the same thing at all.I'm not saying they're
> > the same, I'm saying it looks like @preserved-rebuild does a subset
> > of the things revdep-rebuild does.  Why run @preserved-rebuild
> > followed by revdep-rebuild if the end result is the same as running
> > revdep-rebuild?  I'm sure I'm missing something here but I don't
> > know what it is.

OK, I see what you mean.

I'm a pessimistic sysadmin who's written a lot of code. I know bug
factories when I see one :-)

@preserved-rebuild is an excellent idea, but I haven't seen anything
yet to convince me that it is bug-free enough yet to the point where I
can drop revdep-rebuild entirely. So I still want the safety net of
running revdep-rebuild occasionally just in case there's something
@preserved-rebuild missed.

It's also a good way to find bugs in @preserved-rebuild

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> > > So they are not really the same thing at all.I'm not saying they're
> > > the same, I'm saying it looks like @preserved-rebuild does a subset
> > > of the things revdep-rebuild does.  Why run @preserved-rebuild
> > > followed by revdep-rebuild if the end result is the same as running
> > > revdep-rebuild?  I'm sure I'm missing something here but I don't
> > > know what it is.
>
> OK, I see what you mean.
>
> I'm a pessimistic sysadmin who's written a lot of code. I know bug
> factories when I see one :-)
>
> @preserved-rebuild is an excellent idea, but I haven't seen anything
> yet to convince me that it is bug-free enough yet to the point where I
> can drop revdep-rebuild entirely. So I still want the safety net of
> running revdep-rebuild occasionally just in case there's something
> @preserved-rebuild missed.
>
> It's also a good way to find bugs in @preserved-rebuild

Got it.  So @preserved-rebuild is meant to be a replacement for
revdep-rebuild but we aren't sure it's completely ready yet.  In that case,
I think I'm ready to switch.

BTW, what should I do about this:

# revdep-rebuild -p
 * Configuring search environment for revdep-rebuild

 * Checking reverse dependencies
 * Packages containing binaries and libraries broken by a package update
 * will be emerged.

 * Collecting system binaries and libraries
 * Found existing 1_files.rr
 * Collecting complete LD_LIBRARY_PATH
 * Found existing 2_ldpath.rr.
 * Checking dynamic linking consistency
 * Found existing 3_broken.rr.
 * Assigning files to packages
 *  !!! /usr/lib64/libsvn_ra_neon-1.so.0.0.0 not owned by any package is
broken !!!
 *   /usr/lib64/libsvn_ra_neon-1.so.0.0.0 -> (none)
 *  !!! /usr/lib64/libwebkitgtk-1.0.so.0.11.2 not owned by any package is
broken !!!
 *   /usr/lib64/libwebkitgtk-1.0.so.0.11.2 -> (none)
 * Generated new 4_raw.rr and 4_owners.rr
 * Found some broken files, but none of them were associated with known
packages
 * Unable to proceed with automatic repairs.
 * The broken files are listed in 4_owners.rr

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> > I think you're right about that.  Can I configure eclean to wait a
> > certain number of days since a package was removed before cleaning it?
> >  Even if I only run it once per week, it could remove a package that
> > was updated yesterday that I find out I need tomorrow.
> >
> > - Grant
>
>
> -t, --time-limit=<time>    don't delete files modified since <time>
> <time> is an amount of time: "1y" is "one year", "2w" is "two weeks", etc.
> Units are: y (years), m (months), w (weeks), d (days) and h (hours).

I just realized that --time-limit doesn't look like it takes into
consideration when a package was removed from the system, only when it was
installed.  Does anyone know how eclean behaves as far as leaving packages
behind for a while in case they're needed?

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 13:54:25 -0800
Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > So they are not really the same thing at all.I'm not saying
> > > > they're the same, I'm saying it looks like @preserved-rebuild
> > > > does a subset of the things revdep-rebuild does.  Why run
> > > > @preserved-rebuild followed by revdep-rebuild if the end result
> > > > is the same as running revdep-rebuild?  I'm sure I'm missing
> > > > something here but I don't know what it is.
> >
> > OK, I see what you mean.
> >
> > I'm a pessimistic sysadmin who's written a lot of code. I know bug
> > factories when I see one :-)
> >
> > @preserved-rebuild is an excellent idea, but I haven't seen anything
> > yet to convince me that it is bug-free enough yet to the point
> > where I can drop revdep-rebuild entirely. So I still want the
> > safety net of running revdep-rebuild occasionally just in case
> > there's something @preserved-rebuild missed.
> >
> > It's also a good way to find bugs in @preserved-rebuild
> 
> Got it.  So @preserved-rebuild is meant to be a replacement for
> revdep-rebuild but we aren't sure it's completely ready yet.  In that
> case, I think I'm ready to switch.
> 
> BTW, what should I do about this:
> 
> # revdep-rebuild -p
>  * Configuring search environment for revdep-rebuild
> 
>  * Checking reverse dependencies
>  * Packages containing binaries and libraries broken by a package
> update
>  * will be emerged.
> 
>  * Collecting system binaries and libraries
>  * Found existing 1_files.rr
>  * Collecting complete LD_LIBRARY_PATH
>  * Found existing 2_ldpath.rr.
>  * Checking dynamic linking consistency
>  * Found existing 3_broken.rr.
>  * Assigning files to packages
>  *  !!! /usr/lib64/libsvn_ra_neon-1.so.0.0.0 not owned by any package
> is broken !!!
>  *   /usr/lib64/libsvn_ra_neon-1.so.0.0.0 -> (none)
>  *  !!! /usr/lib64/libwebkitgtk-1.0.so.0.11.2 not owned by any
> package is broken !!!
>  *   /usr/lib64/libwebkitgtk-1.0.so.0.11.2 -> (none)
>  * Generated new 4_raw.rr and 4_owners.rr
>  * Found some broken files, but none of them were associated with
> known packages
>  * Unable to proceed with automatic repairs.
>  * The broken files are listed in 4_owners.rr

These two files:

/usr/lib64/libsvn_ra_neon-1.so.0.0.0
/usr/lib64/libwebkitgtk-1.0.so.0.11.2

are orphaned. By rights they should have been removed when the packages
that installed them were removed/upgraded, but that doesn't always
happen - ebuilds can make changes that portage can't see.

The easy approach is to delete them, and any versioning symlinks that
point to them in the same dirs, then possibly rebuild the packages that
provided the originals. That would be subversion and webkit-gtk. Then
run revdep-rebuild to see if anything complains.

The longer (and quite instructive) way is to do what revdep-rebuild does
- run ldd on every binary in every bin and lib dir, greping for the
names of those files. that will tell you what links to them.

I suppose it's also possible that @preserved-rebuild could be keeping
the files around for it's own purposes and isn't ready to delete them
yet (or maybe you just haven't run it yet). Run it anyway, see what
happens. On second thoughts, do this first then the two paras above if
that kind fo thing interests you at all.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 13:54:25 -0800, Grant wrote:

> Got it.  So @preserved-rebuild is meant to be a replacement for
> revdep-rebuild

No, it is a means of preventing the problems that revdep-rebuild fixes.

If revdep-rebuild were a medicine, @preserved-rebuild would be a vaccine.

Which you choose to use depends on whether you prefer fixing broken
systems to avoiding them.

revdep-rebuild is an external program created to deal with a shortcoming
in emerge, that shortcoming was the lack of @preserved-rebuild. There may
be times when @preserved-rebuild fails, although they are becoming
increasingly rare, so revdep-rebuild is still useful as a fallback, but
the main reason I run it from my weekly system check script is as a
sanity check. It rarely finds anything.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Beware! The end is... <aaarrgh!>

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 13:54:25 -0800, Grant wrote:
>
>> Got it.  So @preserved-rebuild is meant to be a replacement for
>> revdep-rebuild
> No, it is a means of preventing the problems that revdep-rebuild fixes.
>
> If revdep-rebuild were a medicine, @preserved-rebuild would be a vaccine.
>
> Which you choose to use depends on whether you prefer fixing broken
> systems to avoiding them.
>
> revdep-rebuild is an external program created to deal with a shortcoming
> in emerge, that shortcoming was the lack of @preserved-rebuild. There may
> be times when @preserved-rebuild fails, although they are becoming
> increasingly rare, so revdep-rebuild is still useful as a fallback, but
> the main reason I run it from my weekly system check script is as a
> sanity check. It rarely finds anything.
>
>


That's been my experience too.  I run @preserved-rebuild when it tells
me to but revdep-rebuild rarely finds anything.  Thing is, it has a time
or two.  It is best to run revdep-rebuild and be sure than not to and
run the risk of not being able to boot or some other problem that bites
you. 

Sort of like a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Dale]

Grant wrote:
> > > I think you're right about that.  Can I configure eclean to wait a
> > > certain number of days since a package was removed before cleaning it?
> > >  Even if I only run it once per week, it could remove a package that
> > > was updated yesterday that I find out I need tomorrow.
> > >
> > > - Grant
> >
> >
> > -t, --time-limit=<time>    don't delete files modified since <time>
> > <time> is an amount of time: "1y" is "one year", "2w" is "two
> weeks", etc.
> > Units are: y (years), m (months), w (weeks), d (days) and h (hours).
>
> I just realized that --time-limit doesn't look like it takes into
> consideration when a package was removed from the system, only when it
> was installed.  Does anyone know how eclean behaves as far as leaving
> packages behind for a while in case they're needed?
>
> - Grant

It's been a while but it used to keep the packages as long as they are
in the tree when using the default setting, in other words, no option is
given.  To me, that can be a really long time for some packages.  When I
say 'they', I mean a ebuild exists for that version. 

As I said, that was a while ago but I don't recall seeing anything that
it has changed either.  If that is wrong, someone please correct. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 08 December 2012 22:49:50 Neil Bothwick wrote:

> ... revdep-rebuild is still useful as a fallback, but the main reason
> I run it from my weekly system check script is as a sanity check. It
> rarely finds anything.

Not quite never, though. I still find it useful.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> > BTW, what should I do about this:
> >
> > # revdep-rebuild -p
> >  * Configuring search environment for revdep-rebuild
> >
> >  * Checking reverse dependencies
> >  * Packages containing binaries and libraries broken by a package
> > update
> >  * will be emerged.
> >
> >  * Collecting system binaries and libraries
> >  * Found existing 1_files.rr
> >  * Collecting complete LD_LIBRARY_PATH
> >  * Found existing 2_ldpath.rr.
> >  * Checking dynamic linking consistency
> >  * Found existing 3_broken.rr.
> >  * Assigning files to packages
> >  *  !!! /usr/lib64/libsvn_ra_neon-1.so.0.0.0 not owned by any package
> > is broken !!!
> >  *   /usr/lib64/libsvn_ra_neon-1.so.0.0.0 -> (none)
> >  *  !!! /usr/lib64/libwebkitgtk-1.0.so.0.11.2 not owned by any
> > package is broken !!!
> >  *   /usr/lib64/libwebkitgtk-1.0.so.0.11.2 -> (none)
> >  * Generated new 4_raw.rr and 4_owners.rr
> >  * Found some broken files, but none of them were associated with
> > known packages
> >  * Unable to proceed with automatic repairs.
> >  * The broken files are listed in 4_owners.rr
>
> These two files:
>
> /usr/lib64/libsvn_ra_neon-1.so.0.0.0
> /usr/lib64/libwebkitgtk-1.0.so.0.11.2
>
> are orphaned. By rights they should have been removed when the packages
> that installed them were removed/upgraded, but that doesn't always
> happen - ebuilds can make changes that portage can't see.
>
> The easy approach is to delete them, and any versioning symlinks that
> point to them in the same dirs, then possibly rebuild the packages that
> provided the originals. That would be subversion and webkit-gtk. Then
> run revdep-rebuild to see if anything complains.

Done except that subversion is not installed.

Also thanks to Neil and Dale.

- Grant

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
> That's been my experience too. I run @preserved-rebuild when it tells
> me to but revdep-rebuild rarely finds anything. Thing is, it has a
> time or two. It is best to run revdep-rebuild and be sure than not to
> and run the risk of not being able to boot or some other problem that
> bites you. Sort of like a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of
> cure. ;-) Dale :-) :-) 

Example that revdep-rebuild needs to be run from time to time.

root@fireball / # revdep-rebuild -i -- -a
 * Configuring search environment for revdep-rebuild

 * Checking reverse dependencies
 * Packages containing binaries and libraries broken by a package update
 * will be emerged.

 * Collecting system binaries and libraries
 * Generated new 1_files.rr
 * Collecting complete LD_LIBRARY_PATH
 * Generated new 2_ldpath.rr
 * Checking dynamic linking consistency
[ 100% ]                
 *   broken /usr/lib64/libkmanagesieve.so.4 (no version information
available)
 *   broken /usr/lib64/libkmanagesieve.so.4.9.3 (no version information
available)
 * Generated new 3_broken.rr
 * Assigning files to packages
 *   /usr/lib64/libkmanagesieve.so.4 -> kde-base/kmail
 *   /usr/lib64/libkmanagesieve.so.4.9.3 -> kde-base/kmail
 * Generated new 4_raw.rr and 4_owners.rr
 * Cleaning list of packages to rebuild
 * Generated new 4_pkgs.rr
 * Assigning packages to ebuilds
 * Generated new 4_ebuilds.rr
 * Evaluating package order
 * Generated new 5_order.rr
 * All prepared. Starting rebuild
emerge --complete-graph=y --oneshot --with-bdeps y --backtrack=30
--keep-going -v -j10 --quiet-build=n -1 -a kde-base/kmail:4
..........

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!
[ebuild   R    ] kde-base/kmail-4.9.3:4  USE="handbook kontact (-aqua)
-debug {-test}" 0 kB

Total: 1 package (1 reinstall), Size of downloads: 0 kB

Would you like to merge these packages? [Yes/No]


There's that rare instance right there.  First time in a while too. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Bruce Hill]

On Sat, Dec 08, 2012 at 05:20:36PM -0600, Dale wrote:
> 
> That's been my experience too.  I run @preserved-rebuild when it tells
> me to but revdep-rebuild rarely finds anything.  Thing is, it has a time
> or two.  It is best to run revdep-rebuild and be sure than not to and
> run the risk of not being able to boot or some other problem that bites
> you. 
> 
> Sort of like a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  ;-) 
> 
> Dale

Wasn't following this thread closely when it began...

What is @preserved-rebuild ?

workstation ~ # @preserved-rebuild -p
-bash: @preserved-rebuild: command not found
workstation ~ # e-file @preserved-rebuild
No matches found.
workstation ~ # e-file preserved-rebuild
No matches found.
workstation ~ # preserved-rebuild -p
-bash: preserved-rebuild: command not found
workstation ~ # emerge -a @preserved-rebuild
emerge: 'preserved-rebuild' is an empty set
emerge: no targets left after set expansion
workstation ~ # emerge -a preserved-rebuild

These are the packages that would be merged, in order:

Calculating dependencies... done!

emerge: there are no ebuilds to satisfy "preserved-rebuild".

emerge: searching for similar names...
emerge: Maybe you meant any of these: app-portage/smart-live-rebuild, app-admin/chef-server-webui?
-- 
Happy Penguin Computers               >')
126 Fenco Drive                       ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^
support@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/

Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 07:18:42 -0600, Bruce Hill wrote:

> What is @preserved-rebuild ?

It is a portage set, hence the @ prefix, containing packages that need to
be rebuilt in order to link them against the installed versions of
libraries.

> workstation ~ # emerge -a @preserved-rebuild
> emerge: 'preserved-rebuild' is an empty set
> emerge: no targets left after set expansion

So you have nothing that needs rebuilding. Portage will warn you when the
set it non-empty, telling you to run emerge @preserved-rebuild. There is
no need to run it at any other time.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Bruce Hill]

On Sun, Dec 09, 2012 at 04:48:24PM +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > What is @preserved-rebuild ?
> 
> It is a portage set, hence the @ prefix, containing packages that need to
> be rebuilt in order to link them against the installed versions of
> libraries.
> 
> > workstation ~ # emerge -a @preserved-rebuild
> > emerge: 'preserved-rebuild' is an empty set
> > emerge: no targets left after set expansion
> 
> So you have nothing that needs rebuilding. Portage will warn you when the
> set it non-empty, telling you to run emerge @preserved-rebuild. There is
> no need to run it at any other time.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Neil Bothwick

This alias is run with coffee every morning on 8 Gentoo installs on this LAN:
alias ud='eix-sync && emerge -aDjNuv @world && dispatch-conf && emerge -a --depclean && revdep-rebuild -i && clear && exit'

So I'd venture to say there never will be such a set (must one create it?).

However, the wife's PC is getting rescued from JFS atm. Having backed up /home
and anything worth saving, booted with SystemRescueCd, and started a fresh
install beginning with changing / and /home to XFS; these configs:

grep PYTHON /etc/portage/make.conf
PYTHON_TARGETS="python2_7"

grep gcc /etc/portage/package.*
/etc/portage/package.accept_keywords:sys-devel/gcc:4.6
/etc/portage/package.use:sys-devel/gcc cxx nptl -gtk

grep udev /etc/portage/package.*
/etc/portage/package.mask:>=sys-fs/udev-181
/etc/portage/package.use:sys-fs/udev rule_generator

necessitated "emerge -aejv @world" from what came with the present tarballs.

So as soon as that's done perhaps "emerge -a @preserved-rebuild" will show
such a set?
-- 
Happy Penguin Computers               >')
126 Fenco Drive                       ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^
support@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/

Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 11:01:37 -0600, Bruce Hill wrote:

> > > What is @preserved-rebuild ?  
> > 
> > It is a portage set, hence the @ prefix, containing packages that
> > need to be rebuilt in order to link them against the installed
> > versions of libraries.
> >   
> > > workstation ~ # emerge -a @preserved-rebuild
> > > emerge: 'preserved-rebuild' is an empty set
> > > emerge: no targets left after set expansion  
> > 
> > So you have nothing that needs rebuilding. Portage will warn you when
> > the set it non-empty, telling you to run emerge @preserved-rebuild.
> > There is no need to run it at any other time.

> This alias is run with coffee every morning on 8 Gentoo installs on
> this LAN: alias ud='eix-sync && emerge -aDjNuv @world && dispatch-conf
> && emerge -a --depclean && revdep-rebuild -i && clear && exit'
> 
> So I'd venture to say there never will be such a set (must one create
> it?).

The set is created when needed, but the emerges triggered by
revdep-rebuild will clear it. However, if you read the full thread, you
will see the reasons why reserved-rebuild is the preferred usage. It
avoids breakage and is much faster, and you can always run revdep-rebuild
after to be absolutely sure.

However, because portage keeps the old libraries around for
preserved-rebuild, to avoid breakage, revdep-rebuild may fail to rebuild
all necessary packages.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Ask a silly person, get a silly answer

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Daniel Wagener]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 16:30:33 -0800
Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:

> My unattended daily system maintenance procedure is like this:
> 
> layman -S
> emerge --sync
> emerge -pvDuN world
> emerge -pv --depclean
> eclean -p distfiles
> eclean -p packages
> 
> And then attended like this:
> 
> emerge -DuN world
> revdep-rebuild
> etc-update
> elogv
> emerge --depclean
> eclean distfiles
> eclean packages
> 
> Am I missing any good stuff?
> 
> - Grant

If you are doing anything in haskell, you will want to add

haskell-updater

Otherwise you may end up runinng up and down your portage tree finding everything in order while ghc complains about unsatisfied dependencies.

-- 

[gentoo-user] Re: System maintenance procedure?

[Steven J. Long]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2012 at 04:30:33PM -0800, Grant wrote:
> And then attended like this:
> 
> emerge -DuN world
> revdep-rebuild
> etc-update
> elogv
> emerge --depclean
> eclean distfiles
> eclean packages
> 
> Am I missing any good stuff?

 I've recently modified update[1] to use --changed-use by default, instead
of -N:

 "Unlike --newuse, the --changed-use option does not trigger reinstallation
when flags that the user has not enabled are added or removed." 

 This is great: it does the same thing as skipUseless (a setting we've had
for a couple of years) but means we don't have to show the user what we're
skipping, since portage isn't trying to rebuild it in the first place.

 Also, update does depclean before revdep-rebuild, in case the depclean
breaks anything. (It also picks up on preserved-rebuild, though I switched
back to stable portage a while ago.) Both after glsa-check of course, which
I don't see in your list. (Not that it's actually warned me about anything
in the last few years. ;)

 After the whole thing, it'll run your configUpdater if needed. If not set,
it tries etc-proposals cfg-update dispatch-conf and etc-update in that order.
I use dispatch-conf nowadays, but used to love etc-proposals popping up
in X to tell me when it was done. replace-unmodified, replace-wscomments and
ignore-previously-merged are all really useful (not sure which of those
are default any more, but I definitely had to set a couple to yes when I
installed: pretty sure replace-cvs defaults to yes.)

 With regards to syncing, update -s does the sync first, calling eix-sync
as well if it's installed. We recommend people let eix-sync also update
their overlays with: echo '*' >> /etc/eix-sync.conf
 (I hope that's still correct) or if they're not using eix, to set postSync
to 'layman -S'.
 The sync is nice, as it wraps it to only use one line in the console.

 I'd be interested if there's stuff we should add. I've always been wary
of eclean, and in fact still have all the distfiles and binpkgs this machine
has ever downloaded or installed. Same on my laptop (though it shares
distfiles.) Disk space isn't really an issue any more. But if it's useful to
others, it should be added.

 I really wanted something that keeps the last N versions of binpkgs
(sometimes things start to break, and you get a revbump that doesn't make
things better, and just having the last version isn't enough.) From the
manpage, --package-names --time-limit=6m might be a reasonable compromise.

Hmm think I'll look into adding some sort of hook, though I might not use
it personally: it can just take a set of parameters configured by the admin.

[1] http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-546828.html

-- 
#friendly-coders -- Where everybody knows your nick ;-)

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Bruce Hill]

On Sun, Dec 09, 2012 at 04:48:24PM +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> 
> > workstation ~ # emerge -a @preserved-rebuild
> > emerge: 'preserved-rebuild' is an empty set
> > emerge: no targets left after set expansion
> 
> So you have nothing that needs rebuilding. Portage will warn you when the
> set it non-empty, telling you to run emerge @preserved-rebuild. There is
> no need to run it at any other time.

After using Gentoo for close to two years, the only time/place I've ever even
seen @preserved-rebuild is in this thread. Yet you say, "Portage will warn you
when the set is [it] non-empty, telling you to run emerge @preserved-rebuild."

How will portage do this? An alias 'ud'

alias ud='eix-sync && emerge -aDjNuv @world && dispatch-conf && emerge -a --depclean && revdep-rebuild -i && clear && exit'

is run every morning with my first cup of coffee. If something were changed or
left off that alias do you suppose this mysterious @preserved-rebuild would be
run?

Thanks,
Bruce
-- 
Happy Penguin Computers               >')
126 Fenco Drive                       ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^
support@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:36:10 -0600, Bruce Hill wrote:

> > So you have nothing that needs rebuilding. Portage will warn you when
> > the set is non-empty, telling you to run emerge @preserved-rebuild.
> > There is no need to run it at any other time.  
> 
> After using Gentoo for close to two years, the only time/place I've
> ever even seen @preserved-rebuild is in this thread. Yet you say,
> "Portage will warn you when the set is non-empty, telling you to
> run emerge @preserved-rebuild."
> 
> How will portage do this? An alias 'ud'

A message printed to the terminal at the end of the emerge run...

> alias ud='eix-sync && emerge -aDjNuv @world && dispatch-conf && emerge
> -a --depclean && revdep-rebuild -i && clear && exit'

which is hidden by the output from the subsequent commands.

> is run every morning with my first cup of coffee. If something were
> changed or left off that alias do you suppose this mysterious
> @preserved-rebuild would be run?

It is run when you choose to run it, it never happens automatically
(unless there is a flag I don't know about). You could drop "emerge -a
@preserved-rebuild" into the alias, between the emerge world and
dispatch-conf. There's no harm in running it when it is not needed.

% sudo emerge -a @preserved-rebuild
emerge: 'preserved-rebuild' is an empty set
emerge: no targets left after set expansion


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Why is bra singular and pants plural?

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Michael Orlitzky]

On 12/11/2012 08:36 AM, Bruce Hill wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 09, 2012 at 04:48:24PM +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>
>>> workstation ~ # emerge -a @preserved-rebuild
>>> emerge: 'preserved-rebuild' is an empty set
>>> emerge: no targets left after set expansion
>>
>> So you have nothing that needs rebuilding. Portage will warn you when the
>> set it non-empty, telling you to run emerge @preserved-rebuild. There is
>> no need to run it at any other time.
> 
> After using Gentoo for close to two years, the only time/place I've ever even
> seen @preserved-rebuild is in this thread. Yet you say, "Portage will warn you
> when the set is [it] non-empty, telling you to run emerge @preserved-rebuild."
> 

It's probably safe to pretend it doesn't exist now. We have a better
solution in EAPI5 -- packages can force their dependents to rebuild
after an upgrade.

It will take a while to transition the whole tree, but if you remember
to complain loudly whenever a libfoo upgrade breaks something, it will
happen. In the meantime, run revdep-rebuild every once in a while.

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:36:10 -0600
Bruce Hill <daddy@happypenguincomputers.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 09, 2012 at 04:48:24PM +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > 
> > > workstation ~ # emerge -a @preserved-rebuild
> > > emerge: 'preserved-rebuild' is an empty set
> > > emerge: no targets left after set expansion
> > 
> > So you have nothing that needs rebuilding. Portage will warn you
> > when the set it non-empty, telling you to run emerge
> > @preserved-rebuild. There is no need to run it at any other time.
> 
> After using Gentoo for close to two years, the only time/place I've
> ever even seen @preserved-rebuild is in this thread. Yet you say,
> "Portage will warn you when the set is [it] non-empty, telling you to
> run emerge @preserved-rebuild."
> 
> How will portage do this? An alias 'ud'
> 
> alias ud='eix-sync && emerge -aDjNuv @world && dispatch-conf &&
> emerge -a --depclean && revdep-rebuild -i && clear && exit'
> 
> is run every morning with my first cup of coffee. If something were
> changed or left off that alias do you suppose this mysterious
> @preserved-rebuild would be run?

No, you would likely never see it. Your alias runs revdep-rebuild,
which would inelegantly fix the very problem that @preserved-rebuild
elegantly fixes.

Of course, all this assumes that your version of portage supports
@preserved-rebuild

To use it, you simply notice the portage message right at the end of an
emerge and run "emerge @preserved-rebuild" - it's just a regular emerge
using a particular built-in set that has a defined purpose


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 12 Dec 2012 08:05:24 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > is run every morning with my first cup of coffee. If something were
> > changed or left off that alias do you suppose this mysterious
> > @preserved-rebuild would be run?  
> 
> No, you would likely never see it. Your alias runs revdep-rebuild,
> which would inelegantly fix the very problem that @preserved-rebuild
> elegantly fixes.

Except that revdep-rebuild won't remove the old libraries that portage
keeps installed until emerge @preserved-rebuild is run.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

/ For security reasons, all text in this mail
  is double-rot13 encrypted. /

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:36:10 -0600, Bruce Hill wrote:

> After using Gentoo for close to two years, the only time/place I've
> ever even seen @preserved-rebuild is in this thread. Yet you say,
> "Portage will warn you when the set is [it] non-empty, telling you to
> run emerge @preserved-rebuild."
> 
> How will portage do this? 

I've just got this after an emerge -u @world

!!! existing preserved libs:
>>> package: dev-libs/icu-50.1-r2
 *  - /usr/lib64/libicui18n.so.49
 *  - /usr/lib64/libicui18n.so.49.1.2
 *  - /usr/lib64/libicuio.so.49
 *  - /usr/lib64/libicuio.so.49.1.2
 *      used by /usr/sbin/cgdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
 *      used by /usr/sbin/gdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
 *      used by /usr/sbin/sgdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
 *  - /usr/lib64/libicuuc.so.49
 *  - /usr/lib64/libicuuc.so.49.1.2
 *      used by /usr/sbin/cgdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
 *      used by /usr/sbin/gdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
 *      used by /usr/sbin/sgdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
 *  - /usr/lib64/libicudata.so.49
 *  - /usr/lib64/libicudata.so.49.1.2
Use emerge @preserved-rebuild to rebuild packages using these libraries
 * After world updates, it is important to remove obsolete packages with
 * emerge --depclean. Refer to `man emerge` for more information.

You won't see that because the subsequent programs run by your alias will
scroll it out of view. The important point is that although the library
update could have broken gptfdisk, it didn't because portage is holing
onto the old library until I have run emerge @preserved-rebuild. Contrast
this with the previous approach of letting emerge break important
software and relying on revdep-rebuild to get it working again.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

All things being equal, fat people use more soap.

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[design [depois das dez]]

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Can I recapitulate the routine? So it should be something like that:

layman -S
emerge --sync
emerge -DuN world
emerge @preserved-rebuild
emerge --depclean
revdep-rebuild
eclean distfiles -t=2w
eclean packages -t=2w
dispatch-conf
elogv

Right? But this script could not be run automatically because of
dispatch-conf that needs user intervention.


On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:36:10 -0600, Bruce Hill wrote:
>
> > After using Gentoo for close to two years, the only time/place I've
> > ever even seen @preserved-rebuild is in this thread. Yet you say,
> > "Portage will warn you when the set is [it] non-empty, telling you to
> > run emerge @preserved-rebuild."
> >
> > How will portage do this?
>
> I've just got this after an emerge -u @world
>
> !!! existing preserved libs:
> >>> package: dev-libs/icu-50.1-r2
>  *  - /usr/lib64/libicui18n.so.49
>  *  - /usr/lib64/libicui18n.so.49.1.2
>  *  - /usr/lib64/libicuio.so.49
>  *  - /usr/lib64/libicuio.so.49.1.2
>  *      used by /usr/sbin/cgdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
>  *      used by /usr/sbin/gdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
>  *      used by /usr/sbin/sgdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
>  *  - /usr/lib64/libicuuc.so.49
>  *  - /usr/lib64/libicuuc.so.49.1.2
>  *      used by /usr/sbin/cgdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
>  *      used by /usr/sbin/gdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
>  *      used by /usr/sbin/sgdisk (sys-apps/gptfdisk-0.8.5)
>  *  - /usr/lib64/libicudata.so.49
>  *  - /usr/lib64/libicudata.so.49.1.2
> Use emerge @preserved-rebuild to rebuild packages using these libraries
>  * After world updates, it is important to remove obsolete packages with
>  * emerge --depclean. Refer to `man emerge` for more information.
>
> You won't see that because the subsequent programs run by your alias will
> scroll it out of view. The important point is that although the library
> update could have broken gptfdisk, it didn't because portage is holing
> onto the old library until I have run emerge @preserved-rebuild. Contrast
> this with the previous approach of letting emerge break important
> software and relying on revdep-rebuild to get it working again.
>
>
> --
> Neil Bothwick
>
> All things being equal, fat people use more soap.
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Bruce Hill]

On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 08:05:24AM +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> 
> Of course, all this assumes that your version of portage supports
> @preserved-rebuild
> 
> To use it, you simply notice the portage message right at the end of an
> emerge and run "emerge @preserved-rebuild" - it's just a regular emerge
> using a particular built-in set that has a defined purpose

Perhaps no one ever bothered to mention which version of portage DOES support
@preserved-rebuild (not mentioned in the ChangeLog until portage-2.2.0_alpha47

When fielding support questions it's proper to ask what version of the
particular software in question is being used.
-- 
Happy Penguin Computers               >')
126 Fenco Drive                       ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^
support@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/

Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting

Re: [gentoo-user] System maintenance procedure?

[Grant]

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> > > I think you're right about that.  Can I configure eclean to wait a
> > > certain number of days since a package was removed before cleaning it?
> > >  Even if I only run it once per week, it could remove a package that
> > > was updated yesterday that I find out I need tomorrow.
> > >
> > > - Grant
> >
> >
> > -t, --time-limit=<time>    don't delete files modified since <time>
> > <time> is an amount of time: "1y" is "one year", "2w" is "two weeks",
etc.
> > Units are: y (years), m (months), w (weeks), d (days) and h (hours).
>
> I just realized that --time-limit doesn't look like it takes into
consideration when a package was removed from the system, only when it was
installed.  Does anyone know how eclean behaves as far as leaving packages
behind for a while in case they're needed?

This just got me today.  I recently updated google-chrome on one system,
'eclean packages' ran at some point, then chrome started acting up and I
couldn't go back to the previous version because eclean had wiped out the
package.  I don't think we can count on --time-limit to save us because it
can still wipe out all previous versions of a package.  What we need is a
way to keep at least one older version of each package.

- Grant

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