[gentoo-user] Need help with recommended budget for hardware

[gentoo-user] Need help with recommended budget for hardware

[whiteman808]

Hello,

I want to build a PC with Gentoo and I need to know how much money 
should I spend on it.

To clarify, I'll tell more for what I'm going to use PC:
* computer will be mostly used for programming in languages like C, C++, 
sysadmin, and testing stuff in the LXC, Docker containers, virtual 
machines,
* I'll program mainly desktop applications using ncurses, wxWidgets, and 
embedded,
* I'm completely not interested in doing computer graphics nor gaming 
(either playing games and creating),
* computer will also be used as Gentoo binary package server for my 
other machines, including server, and general for compiling stuff on 
Gentoo so the number of cores and threads is very important for me,
* I don't ever plan do any dual boot with Windows, I'm going to install 
Gentoo on PC once and use it,
* I don't want to have Intel CPU and NVIDIA GPU, only AMD CPU or GPU, 
even integrated Radeon will be okay for me,
* after I buy PC it's possible that I'll want to upgrade RAM up to 128 
GB (I won't need more than 128 GB ever, I think),
* it's very probable I'll want to add one or more HDDs with capacity >= 
4 TB, connected by SATA,
* motherboard should have many USB ports, even better if it would have 
USB 3 and a few USB type C,
* I'm going to work on three monitors displaying tiling wm with my 
workflow based on tmux+neovim+qutebrowser+neomutt etc.

Can you recommend an example PC configuration that will meet my 
requirements? Will PC with AMD Ryzen 9 7950X and motherboard with 
installed 64 GB RAM be fine? This cpu supports up to 128 GB RAM and has 
integrated graphics and isn't too expensive for me.

Thank you,
whiteman808

Re: [gentoo-user] Need help with recommended budget for hardware

[Michael]

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On Thursday, 20 February 2025 19:18:52 Greenwich Mean Time 
whiteman808@paraboletancza.org wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I want to build a PC with Gentoo and I need to know how much money
> should I spend on it.

Only you can make this judgment.  There is usually a sweet spot between 
performance and price.  They are both measurable, but the value/cost ratio any 
level of performance represents is quite subjective.  Typically, a previous 
generation of CPUs is more cost effective, while performance increases with 
each generation.


> To clarify, I'll tell more for what I'm going to use PC:
> * computer will be mostly used for programming in languages like C, C++,
> sysadmin, and testing stuff in the LXC, Docker containers, virtual
> machines,
> * I'll program mainly desktop applications using ncurses, wxWidgets, and
> embedded,
> * I'm completely not interested in doing computer graphics nor gaming
> (either playing games and creating),
> * computer will also be used as Gentoo binary package server for my
> other machines, including server, and general for compiling stuff on
> Gentoo so the number of cores and threads is very important for me,
> * I don't ever plan do any dual boot with Windows, I'm going to install
> Gentoo on PC once and use it,
> * I don't want to have Intel CPU and NVIDIA GPU, only AMD CPU or GPU,
> even integrated Radeon will be okay for me,
> * after I buy PC it's possible that I'll want to upgrade RAM up to 128
> GB (I won't need more than 128 GB ever, I think),

You probably will at some point in the future, when compilers get even 
hungrier than today.  ;-)  DDR5 128G RAM will be expensive.  AM5 socket CPUs 
can drive ECC RAM and some MoBos like Asus X670E support it - you may wish to 
have ECC RAM for your coding work?  Note, with ECC RAM you may not be able to 
achieve the advertised frequency of the RAM sticks, without tweaking 
frequencies and voltage.


> * it's very probable I'll want to add one or more HDDs with capacity >=
> 4 TB, connected by SATA,

Hmm ... AM4 socket CPUs could drive SATA x2 + PCIe x2 NVME M.2.  I've read 
that with AM5 CPUs it's all PCIe.  You will have to hook any SATA drives on 
the PCIe, or perhaps externally via USB.


> * motherboard should have many USB ports, even better if it would have
> USB 3 and a few USB type C,
> * I'm going to work on three monitors displaying tiling wm with my
> workflow based on tmux+neovim+qutebrowser+neomutt etc.

The iGPU on AM5 can drive one dedicated display, while 3 more displays can be 
hooked up to the USB-C ports as DP-alt mode.  However, not all USB-C ports 
feature Display Port Alt Mode functionality and whether the MoBo OEMs provide 
Alt Mode rather than just data through to their USB-C ports would likely 
depend on the price point of their products.


> Can you recommend an example PC configuration that will meet my
> requirements? Will PC with AMD Ryzen 9 7950X and motherboard with
> installed 64 GB RAM be fine? This cpu supports up to 128 GB RAM and has
> integrated graphics and isn't too expensive for me.
> 
> Thank you,
> whiteman808

The Ryzen 9 7950X is a beast in terms of CPU frequencies it can achieve and 
will make compiling any of today's software a breeze.  Which brings me to ... 
cooling.  :-)  Although it is more efficient power-wise than previous 
generations of CPUs, its TDP at 170W is not to be sniffed at.  AMD recommends 
water cooling which adds to the cost, especially if you intend to squeeze 
higher boost frequencies through PBO2/CO tweaking.

I can't help thinking a Ryzen 9 7950X continues to be too costly.  A used 
previous generation CPU/MoBo will get you enough performance at a much lower 
price point, if you are funding this purchase privately and not via a business 
you work for.  If the former, I would look for a previous generation CPU & 
MoBo, plus a dedicated GPU.  You could probably buy a whole system for the 
cost of a new 7950X CPU alone.  If the latter and you have a choice on the 
budget, then I'd opt for a Threadripper.

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[gentoo-user] Re: Need help with recommended budget for hardware

[Grant Edwards]

On 2025-02-20, whiteman808@paraboletancza.org <whiteman808@paraboletancza.org> wrote:

> I want to build a PC with Gentoo and I need to know how much money 
> should I spend on it.
>
> To clarify, I'll tell more for what I'm going to use PC:
> * computer will be mostly used for programming in languages like C, C++, 
> sysadmin, and testing stuff in the LXC, Docker containers, virtual 
> machines,

For general programming work, you can use any old PC that a Windows
user has thrown in the trash.  Though if you want to run a lot of
docker containers or VMs, you might want to add some RAM.

> * I'll program mainly desktop applications using ncurses, wxWidgets, and 
> embedded,
> * I'm completely not interested in doing computer graphics nor gaming 
> (either playing games and creating),

Then just about anything will work.

Re: [gentoo-user] Need help with recommended budget for hardware

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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Am Thu, Feb 27, 2025 at 11:31:48AM +0000 schrieb Michael:
> On Thursday, 20 February 2025 19:18:52 Greenwich Mean Time 
> whiteman808@paraboletancza.org wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > I want to build a PC with Gentoo and I need to know how much money
> > should I spend on it.
> 
> Only you can make this judgment.  There is usually a sweet spot between 
> performance and price.  They are both measurable, but the value/cost ratio any 
> level of performance represents is quite subjective.  Typically, a previous 
> generation of CPUs is more cost effective, while performance increases with 
> each generation.
> 
> 
> > To clarify, I'll tell more for what I'm going to use PC:
> > […]
> > * it's very probable I'll want to add one or more HDDs with capacity >=
> > 4 TB, connected by SATA,
> 
> Hmm ... AM4 socket CPUs could drive SATA x2 + PCIe x2 NVME M.2.  I've read 
> that with AM5 CPUs it's all PCIe.  You will have to hook any SATA drives on 
> the PCIe, or perhaps externally via USB.

Uhm, not quite. It is true that the I/O die inside the AM4 CPUs supports 
2×SATA, which the I/O die in AM5 does not do anymore. But that doesn’t mean 
that boards don’t provide SATA. In fact, of all 206 AM5 boards listed in my 
product comparison website, exactly one model does not have any SATA ports. 
And that’s because it’s a server board with a non-standard form factor and 
Oculink instead.

> > * motherboard should have many USB ports, even better if it would have
> > USB 3 and a few USB type C,
> > * I'm going to work on three monitors displaying tiling wm with my
> > workflow based on tmux+neovim+qutebrowser+neomutt etc.
> 
> The iGPU on AM5 can drive one dedicated display, while 3 more displays can be 
> hooked up to the USB-C ports as DP-alt mode.

What do you mean with one dedicated display?
According to https://www.anandtech.com/show/17585/amd-zen-4-ryzen-9-7950x-and-ryzen-5-7600x-review-retaking-the-high-end/3
the AM4 iGPU supports three displays, AM5’s four. And it does not matter 
which connector you use, be it HDMI¹, DisplayPort, DVI or even VGA.

However, of the mentioned 206 AM5 boards, only 56 have three display 
connectors, just 4 boards have four. So if you want to use more displays 
than you have connectors, you need DisplayPort daisy-chaining.

> > Can you recommend an example PC configuration that will meet my
> > requirements? Will PC with AMD Ryzen 9 7950X and motherboard with
> > installed 64 GB RAM be fine? This cpu supports up to 128 GB RAM and has
> > integrated graphics and isn't too expensive for me.
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > whiteman808
> 
> The Ryzen 9 7950X is a beast in terms of CPU frequencies it can achieve and 
> will make compiling any of today's software a breeze.  Which brings me to ... 
> cooling.  :-)  Although it is more efficient power-wise than previous 
> generations of CPUs, its TDP at 170W is not to be sniffed at.  AMD recommends 
> water cooling which adds to the cost, especially if you intend to squeeze 
> higher boost frequencies through PBO2/CO tweaking.

If you disable the boost, the CPU will run much much more efficiently, in 
terms of compute power per consumed unit of energy. Example: I have an 8700G 
APU, it’s only a 65 W chip (65 × 1.4 = 91 W top consumption). But it sits in 
a cramped case with a not-so big air cooler. When I let it boost to 5.2 GHz, 
then just loading one or two cores makes the fan spin up loudly and the chip 
reaches 70 °C. If I disable boost, the processor goes only to 4.2 GHz, but 
even when loading 8 or more cores, the fan stays rather quiet and the temps 
well below 60 degrees.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Need help with recommended budget for hardware

[Michael]

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On Thursday, 27 February 2025 19:12:38 Greenwich Mean Time Frank Steinmetzger 
wrote:
> Am Thu, Feb 27, 2025 at 11:31:48AM +0000 schrieb Michael:

> > Hmm ... AM4 socket CPUs could drive SATA x2 + PCIe x2 NVME M.2.  I've read
> > that with AM5 CPUs it's all PCIe.  You will have to hook any SATA drives
> > on the PCIe, or perhaps externally via USB.
> 
> Uhm, not quite. It is true that the I/O die inside the AM4 CPUs supports
> 2×SATA, which the I/O die in AM5 does not do anymore. But that doesn’t mean
> that boards don’t provide SATA. In fact, of all 206 AM5 boards listed in my
> product comparison website, exactly one model does not have any SATA ports.
> And that’s because it’s a server board with a non-standard form factor and
> Oculink instead.

I didn't express this clearly.  Yes, they can run SATA via the MoBo chipset 
(e.g. B650/E), but eat up PCIe 4.0 capacity.  I've read about users 
complaining their SATA SSD and SATA HDDs running slower on AM5 than AM4, but I 
don't have an AM5 so can't confirm. 


> > The iGPU on AM5 can drive one dedicated display, while 3 more displays can
> > be hooked up to the USB-C ports as DP-alt mode.
> 
> What do you mean with one dedicated display?

I've read this to mean one HDMI 4K display coming off the graphics core.  
Lower resolutions using DPs (shared?).  I haven't looked into this aspect in 
more detail for more than a year now.  A couple of MoBos I looked at mentioned 
they only supported 3 displays at a time, so I took this to be an AM5 graphics 
limitation.  Later on I read something from AMD speaking of 4 displays.  I 
don't know more about it.


> According to
> https://www.anandtech.com/show/17585/amd-zen-4-ryzen-9-7950x-and-ryzen-5-76
> 00x-review-retaking-the-high-end/3 the AM4 iGPU supports three displays,
> AM5’s four. And it does not matter which connector you use, be it HDMI¹,
> DisplayPort, DVI or even VGA.

I wasn't comparing AM4 to AM5 iGPUs.  Although this video does offer a 
comparison, which I expect won't be relevant to the OP's use case:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiEmCOQi5rg


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