[gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Dale]

Howdy,

I'm getting used to this new puter still.  Also, this keyboard is still
giving me typo problems.  Hang in there with me. 

First, Seamonkey has issues with a lot of sites.  I tend to only use it
for sites that require no login info.  Basically, doing searches or
clicking on links in email to read a article or something.  Firefox is
my main browser.  I have several profiles I use, each for different uses
with different add-ons installed for those tasks.  Now for the problem. 

I ordered a set of monitor cables 10' long for my new rig through Ebay. 
The 6' cables just barely reach the top monitor.  I don't like cables
that don't have extra given I move things around at times while things
are powered up.  When I received my order, they shipped 6' cables
instead of 10' ones.  Usually, I just send a message to the seller as a
question with any issues and the problem gets fixed with no ding on
their ratings.  The seller wanted me to go through the return process. 
That's fine.  Thing is, when I go through that process, the button I
need to push to complete and send the return request, it's grayed out. 
It is supposed to turn blue once I put in the needed info and be
clickable.  I tried this in both Firefox and Seamonkey.  I notified the
seller but all they do is send a automated response.  They don't appear
to have humans reading their message.  Negative feedback says the same. 
The seller has decent ratings tho.

I then went through the process where Ebay gets involved.  I clicked the
button for Ebay to help and start that process.  Thing is, in both
Firefox and Seamonkey, the send button is grayed out there too.  I don't
think I can easily install a windoze web browser to test.  So, I emerged
Chrome, even tho I don't like or trust it.  Heck, I been wanting to move
away from Google mail for years.  When I get to the same page as I had
in Firefox and Seamonkey and put in the needed info into Chrome, the
send button is clickable and works fine.  So, Firefox and Seamonkey
fail, Chrome works. 

I'm sure there are people who use Firefox and Chrome on this mailing
list.  Has anyone else ran into this type of issue where a page works on
one but not the other?  My first thought, the order was a low price and
the seller doesn't do returns for orders that small.  Shipping isn't
cheap sometimes.  Given that it works in Chrome, I'm thinking it might
be Ebay now, not the seller.  If it is Ebay, I want to reach out and
inform them of that so they can try to fix it.  I can understand it not
working with Seamonkey.  A lot of sites don't work with Seamonkey. 
Firefox tho is a widely used web browser and it should work.  Either
Ebay did something wrong or Firefox did.  Someone needs to research and
figure out which and I'd think Ebay is a good place to start since it is
their page and they know their code for that page. 

Anyone else run into something like this?  Even if it is not on Ebay. 
It could be a Firefox issue.  I've read that Firefox tends to follow the
rules but other web browsers don't and sometimes that can cause
problems.  I'm not sure if that still applies today or not tho. 

Thoughts? 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Waldo Lemmer]

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Chrome violates the HTML5 spec in many ways, and many web developers only
test their sites in Chrome, so some sites occasionally break in Firefox.
The situation has improved a lot over the years, though.

Firefox has a channel through which broken sites can be reported:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/report-breakage-due-blocking

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Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Dale]

Waldo Lemmer wrote:
>
> Chrome violates the HTML5 spec in many ways, and many web developers
> only test their sites in Chrome, so some sites occasionally break in
> Firefox. The situation has improved a lot over the years, though.
>
> Firefox has a channel through which broken sites can be reported:
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/report-breakage-due-blocking
>

I'm looked into that link.  I put my mouse pointer over the thing they
say to check and it shows nothing is detected or blocked.  So, I guess
that isn't the problem.  This could be a Ebay problem.  The way it is
supposed to work is when I put in and/or select the items needed, it is
supposed to change the button to be clickable.  It fails to do that. 
Thing is, it could also be Firefox.  Firefox works on every website I go
to.  I can't recall the last time a site didn't work so I'm kinda
leaning to it being a Ebay problem but I could be wrong.  I wasn't
surprised when Seamonkey didn't work.  Heck, most sites don't work right
with it anymore.  I just know something is wrong since Chrome worked. 
Thing is, I don't trust Chrome for much.  Even tho I use Gmail, I don't
trust Google much at all either.  I use encrypted email for some
things.  Keeps their nose out of my business.  LOL

I really need to switch to a better email provider.  Thing is, I'd like
to set it up so that I have a email program that fetches my emails and
then I just connect locally to read them. After all, Seamonkey stopped
fetching emails automatically long ago.  Plus, once setup, I could stop
using Seamonkey.  Seamonkey needs some serious work.  Sad tho,  I like
it in a lot of ways. 

I may look into other email sites again.  I need a really good guide to
get it to work like I need tho.  I don't know where to even start. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Automatic e-mail fetching/checking in SeaMonkey Mail&News (was: Re: Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.)

[Nuno Silva]

On 2024-08-03, Dale wrote:

> I really need to switch to a better email provider.  Thing is, I'd like
> to set it up so that I have a email program that fetches my emails and
> then I just connect locally to read them. After all, Seamonkey stopped
> fetching emails automatically long ago.

I think there have been reports of this happening. Is the account where
this happens set up with OAuth2? If you have more than one account, does
it affect all of them or just a few?

If you do a manual check one (Ctrl+Shift+D or File -> Get New Messages
for -> All Accounts), does it start checking/fetching automatically at
the configured interval after that?

-- 
Nuno Silva

Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Michael]

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On Saturday, 3 August 2024 06:55:53 BST Dale wrote:
> Waldo Lemmer wrote:
> > Chrome violates the HTML5 spec in many ways, and many web developers
> > only test their sites in Chrome, so some sites occasionally break in
> > Firefox. The situation has improved a lot over the years, though.
> > 
> > Firefox has a channel through which broken sites can be reported:
> > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/report-breakage-due-blocking
> 
> I'm looked into that link.  I put my mouse pointer over the thing they
> say to check and it shows nothing is detected or blocked.  So, I guess
> that isn't the problem.  This could be a Ebay problem.  The way it is
> supposed to work is when I put in and/or select the items needed, it is
> supposed to change the button to be clickable.  It fails to do that. 
> Thing is, it could also be Firefox.  Firefox works on every website I go
> to.  I can't recall the last time a site didn't work so I'm kinda
> leaning to it being a Ebay problem but I could be wrong.  I wasn't
> surprised when Seamonkey didn't work.  Heck, most sites don't work right
> with it anymore.  I just know something is wrong since Chrome worked. 
> Thing is, I don't trust Chrome for much.  Even tho I use Gmail, I don't
> trust Google much at all either.  I use encrypted email for some
> things.  Keeps their nose out of my business.  LOL

I have used firefox, (librewolf to be more precise) to buy stuff off ebay, 
leave feedback, etc. and do not recall problems with any buttons.

HOWEVER:  I do not run Addons (other than Ublock Origin) and for these type of 
transactions I make sure session cookies are accepted.


> I really need to switch to a better email provider.  Thing is, I'd like
> to set it up so that I have a email program that fetches my emails and
> then I just connect locally to read them. After all, Seamonkey stopped
> fetching emails automatically long ago.  Plus, once setup, I could stop
> using Seamonkey.  Seamonkey needs some serious work.  Sad tho,  I like
> it in a lot of ways. 

Since you're using Firefox as your browser, have you tried Thunderbird as a 
desktop mail client?  I understand it shares code with Seamonkey, by I don't 
know what their differences might be.
 

> I may look into other email sites again.  I need a really good guide to
> get it to work like I need tho.  I don't know where to even start. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

There is Seamonkey documentation, but there are loads of how to's for Mozilla 
products.  If Seamonkey is mostly the same as Firefox/Thunderbird, you can 
take look at the Thunderbird resources to find out how to set up Seamonkey to 
behave as you want it.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Automatic e-mail fetching/checking in SeaMonkey Mail&News (was: Re: Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.)

[Dale]

Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2024-08-03, Dale wrote:
>
>> I really need to switch to a better email provider.  Thing is, I'd like
>> to set it up so that I have a email program that fetches my emails and
>> then I just connect locally to read them. After all, Seamonkey stopped
>> fetching emails automatically long ago.
> I think there have been reports of this happening. Is the account where
> this happens set up with OAuth2? If you have more than one account, does
> it affect all of them or just a few?
>
> If you do a manual check one (Ctrl+Shift+D or File -> Get New Messages
> for -> All Accounts), does it start checking/fetching automatically at
> the configured interval after that?
>

That is when this started.  A couple years or so ago Google switched to
a new method.  When I changed that setting to match what Google
required, it would no longer auto fetch messages.  I have to hit the
button to get it to fetch them. 

I've tried everything to get it to start working and it just plain
refuses.  I figured it wasn't allowed for some reason with that method
and just got used to doing it manually.  I wouldn't mind fixing it tho. 
I only have one account that I use with Seamonkey.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Dale]

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Michael wrote:
> On Saturday, 3 August 2024 06:55:53 BST Dale wrote:
>> Waldo Lemmer wrote:
>>> Chrome violates the HTML5 spec in many ways, and many web developers
>>> only test their sites in Chrome, so some sites occasionally break in
>>> Firefox. The situation has improved a lot over the years, though.
>>>
>>> Firefox has a channel through which broken sites can be reported:
>>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/report-breakage-due-blocking
>> I'm looked into that link.  I put my mouse pointer over the thing they
>> say to check and it shows nothing is detected or blocked.  So, I guess
>> that isn't the problem.  This could be a Ebay problem.  The way it is
>> supposed to work is when I put in and/or select the items needed, it is
>> supposed to change the button to be clickable.  It fails to do that. 
>> Thing is, it could also be Firefox.  Firefox works on every website I go
>> to.  I can't recall the last time a site didn't work so I'm kinda
>> leaning to it being a Ebay problem but I could be wrong.  I wasn't
>> surprised when Seamonkey didn't work.  Heck, most sites don't work right
>> with it anymore.  I just know something is wrong since Chrome worked. 
>> Thing is, I don't trust Chrome for much.  Even tho I use Gmail, I don't
>> trust Google much at all either.  I use encrypted email for some
>> things.  Keeps their nose out of my business.  LOL
> I have used firefox, (librewolf to be more precise) to buy stuff off ebay, 
> leave feedback, etc. and do not recall problems with any buttons.
>
> HOWEVER:  I do not run Addons (other than Ublock Origin) and for these type of 
> transactions I make sure session cookies are accepted.
>
>
>> I really need to switch to a better email provider.  Thing is, I'd like
>> to set it up so that I have a email program that fetches my emails and
>> then I just connect locally to read them. After all, Seamonkey stopped
>> fetching emails automatically long ago.  Plus, once setup, I could stop
>> using Seamonkey.  Seamonkey needs some serious work.  Sad tho,  I like
>> it in a lot of ways. 
> Since you're using Firefox as your browser, have you tried Thunderbird as a 
> desktop mail client?  I understand it shares code with Seamonkey, by I don't 
> know what their differences might be.
>  

I always thought the email part of Seamonkey was the same as Thunderbird
so I tried it a few times.  While it is a lot like it, it is different. 
One thing that I have issues with, opening links.  I get emails with
links from orders I've placed, news articles and other stuff.  I'd like
them to open in Firefox but since I have several profiles, I can't find
a way to open those links and it do so in a certain profile, even if
Firefox is already open.  Basically, I need to be able to right click on
a link and be able to tell it to open the link in a new tab in profile
abc for example.  Even setting it to a certain profile for all links
would be ok.  I'd guess 99% of the links I click on would need to open
in the 'secure' profile.  That is the profile I use for ordering,
banking and such.  It has a few add-ons that make things more secure.  I
have containers there that separate certain websites from other things. 
It's the most used profile.

To add info.  I have another profile used for watching videos.  It is
set up to work well with Youtube and other video sites.  The add-ons
there are for downloading videos and such.  I have another profile that
I use for torrent stuff.  I never use the video or torrent profiles to
say login to my bank account, pay bills or anything.  I mostly use
separate profiles because some add-ons clash with each other.  I can't
install all the add-ons I need in just one profile.  Plus, I can manage
the number of open tabs better too. 



>> I may look into other email sites again.  I need a really good guide to
>> get it to work like I need tho.  I don't know where to even start. 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> There is Seamonkey documentation, but there are loads of how to's for Mozilla 
> products.  If Seamonkey is mostly the same as Firefox/Thunderbird, you can 
> take look at the Thunderbird resources to find out how to set up Seamonkey to 
> behave as you want it.

Well, what I'd like to do, install a email program that fetches the
emails and then stores them on my system.  Then I can have Thunderbird
or any other email program connect to that and view, create, send or
whatever emails.  Thing is, setting up the first program is
complicated.  It is a bit over my head.  From what I've read, it is
pretty picky too.  It has to be fairly perfect or things don't work. 
I'd need a seriously good how to to even get started.  It could turn
into another long thread like that goofy monitor.  :/ 

I'm at a point where I either dive in and stay out of the water.  ROFL

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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Am Sat, Aug 03, 2024 at 12:15:55PM -0500 schrieb Dale:

> >> :-)  :-) 
> > There is Seamonkey documentation, but there are loads of how to's for Mozilla 
> > products.  If Seamonkey is mostly the same as Firefox/Thunderbird, you can 
> > take look at the Thunderbird resources to find out how to set up Seamonkey to 
> > behave as you want it.
> 
> Well, what I'd like to do, install a email program that fetches the
> emails and then stores them on my system.  Then I can have Thunderbird
> or any other email program connect to that and view, create, send or
> whatever emails.

So you want an IMAP server, then?

> Thing is, setting up the first program is complicated.

Indee-diddly-doo.
What I do: sync mail from my main IMAP account to a local maildir structure 
using offlineimap. Then I can access it with mutt or any other program that 
speaks maildir, read it, move it around, delete it. Those actions are 
applied to the server by offlineimap as well. I use mutt for that most of 
the time.

I also use KMail as graphical mail client, but that is completely separate 
from the offlineimap-mutt setup and it uses its own offline cache.

Sending mail away is set up individually in each client (mutt/kmail) and 
they talk to my provider’s SMTP directly.

This setup has limited flexibility in that you need to sync manually. A 
local imap server would allow for many clients to talk to it at the same 
time in real-time. But I don’t see this as a requirement for you since you 
only have one client, basically.

-- 
Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

Feed your children garlic, then you will find them in the dark.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Wols Lists]

On 03/08/2024 18:15, Dale wrote:
> Well, what I'd like to do, install a email program that fetches the 
> emails and then stores them on my system.  Then I can have Thunderbird 
> or any other email program connect to that and view, create, send or 
> whatever emails.  Thing is, setting up the first program is 
> complicated.  It is a bit over my head.  From what I've read, it is 
> pretty picky too.  It has to be fairly perfect or things don't work.  
> I'd need a seriously good how to to even get started. It could turn into 
> another long thread like that goofy monitor.  :/

That's basically fetchmail. Although I gather that's now 
abandonware-ish. There is a successor iirc, but I stopped using it 
because it broke...

If you can then get that into Dovecot ...

My current setup is I have dovecot set up, then whenever I connect (with 
thunderbird) I have bulk rules that just move everything across from the 
internet into dovecot.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[William Kenworthy]

On 4/8/24 16:11, Wols Lists wrote:
> On 03/08/2024 18:15, Dale wrote:
>> Well, what I'd like to do, install a email program that fetches the 
>> emails and then stores them on my system.  Then I can have 
>> Thunderbird or any other email program connect to that and view, 
>> create, send or whatever emails. Thing is, setting up the first 
>> program is complicated.  It is a bit over my head.  From what I've 
>> read, it is pretty picky too. It has to be fairly perfect or things 
>> don't work.  I'd need a seriously good how to to even get started. It 
>> could turn into another long thread like that goofy monitor.  :/
>
> That's basically fetchmail. Although I gather that's now 
> abandonware-ish. There is a successor iirc, but I stopped using it 
> because it broke...
>
Fetchmail isnt abandoned - they fixed it (though somewhat slowley) for 
the last openssl shmozzle update and it was working fine last I use it.

Getmail (from v6.0) is probably the other main fetch app and other than 
some weirdness around how idle is implemented (it waits for messages 
then exits so you have to run it again) it works fine with standards 
compliant providers (not always the case!) I am using it with 4 email 
accounts shared between two people using postfix and courier-imap.  
Overkill but it was what I was using when working and other than 
maintenance overhead it works fine in a gentoo VM.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Dale]

Wols Lists wrote:
> On 03/08/2024 18:15, Dale wrote:
>> Well, what I'd like to do, install a email program that fetches the
>> emails and then stores them on my system.  Then I can have
>> Thunderbird or any other email program connect to that and view,
>> create, send or whatever emails.  Thing is, setting up the first
>> program is complicated.  It is a bit over my head.  From what I've
>> read, it is pretty picky too.  It has to be fairly perfect or things
>> don't work.  I'd need a seriously good how to to even get started. It
>> could turn into another long thread like that goofy monitor.  :/
>
> That's basically fetchmail. Although I gather that's now
> abandonware-ish. There is a successor iirc, but I stopped using it
> because it broke...
>
> If you can then get that into Dovecot ...
>
> My current setup is I have dovecot set up, then whenever I connect
> (with thunderbird) I have bulk rules that just move everything across
> from the internet into dovecot.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>


I'll be honest, I don't know for sure what I would need to do what I
want to do.  The basics from my understanding.  I'd have some software,
dovecot sounds familiar, that fetches my email which is then stored on
my computer, in /var somewhere I think.  Once that is done, I could use
Thunderbird, Kmail or whatever to access/download the emails from and
send emails, through dovecot or something I guess.  Basically, there is
a server type software between say Kmail and say Gmail.  That software
handles fetching and sending.  That way I have copies no matter what I
use to view them with.

Someone mentioned a long time ago that doing it this way would allow me
to switch email programs and not lose any emails.  Keep in mind, I keep
most emails for good.  I may have the first email I ever sent and
received here somewhere.  I also sort emails into sub directories. 
Example.  All gentoo-user emails go into a folder named gentoo-user.  I
have similar filters for other things like banking, websites I buy from
etc.  I'd like to keep those.  I think someone mentioned IMAP or
something at one point???? 

I've read about people pulling their hair out trying to set up email
software and it sounds like a nightmare and they know more about it than
I do.  I'd like to do this but I'd need a good howto. 

I figure the first step, find a new email provider.  Then find out what
software works best with it.  I so want to get away from gmail. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Wols Lists]

On 04/08/2024 10:54, Dale wrote:
> I've read about people pulling their hair out trying to set up email
> software and it sounds like a nightmare and they know more about it than
> I do.  I'd like to do this but I'd need a good howto.

Thing is, there's too many jobs required to process email, and in line 
with Unix's "do one thing and do it well", there are a whole bunch of 
options at every layer. So let's start at the top ...

Your "sorting office" is managed by postfix/exim/sendmail. That is 
supposed to be configured such that they transfer mail between 
themselves on port 25 (the big lorries). They store the mail in /var 
(the mail delivery office).

Then because configuring the sorting office can be such a pita, there's 
a whole bunch of programs (fetchmail et al) which ferry small amounts of 
mail around. They'll go to the upstream sorting office (eg gmail), 
collect mail from their delivery office front desk, and deliver it to 
your local postoffice, whether the sorting office or delivery office is 
down to you.

Now you need your delivery office front desk. That can be dovecot, 
courier-imap, whatever. It checks the customer (mail client) is who they 
say they are, collects their mail from the delivery office (/var), and 
either hands the mail over (POP3), or gives them a copy (IMAP).

Your mail client (thunderbird, mutt, whatever) now caches all your mail 
locally. If you're using POP, that cache is the only copy. If you're 
using IMAP, the master copy is still in /var, and you can go and get 
another copy if you need to.


Okay, that's the basics. But you notice I said you're *supposed* to use 
postfix/exim/sendmail to bulk transfer mail between sorting offices, 
however a lot of people use fe5tchmai instead? And I use Thunderbird - 
collecting mail from upstream and moving to my local downstream. All 
thoroughly confusing. And fetchmail can skip the downstream postoffice 
entirely, moving mail straight from upstream into the mail client's 
cache, just like POP ... indeed I think that was the original design...

And when you're puzzled the "Rest Of the World" doesn't seem to be like 
that, remember that most people now on Windows just run a mail client, 
and use upstream as their *local* post office. 'nix expects you to run a 
post office on your local machine, which I don't think Windows has ever 
done.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Wols Lists]

On 04/08/2024 10:54, Dale wrote:
> I figure the first step, find a new email provider.  Then find out what
> software works best with it.  I so want to get away from gmail.

Step 1 - look for a nice domain (mine belongs to my brother).
Step 2 - look for a small(ish) Internet Services Provider which will 
host your web server, email, etc etc for you.

That way you own your own domain, so you can change providers without 
losing your email address - a biggy. That's usually more hassle than 
it's worth, though.

And if they host that stuff for you, they should be standards-compliant 
which makes your life easy.

Lastly, if you own your own domain, you can set up as many email addys 
and website subdowmains as you like :-)

Cheers,
Wol

[gentoo-user] Re: Web browser issues. Firefox and Seamonkey doesn't work, Chrome does.

[Nuno Silva]

On 2024-08-04, William Kenworthy wrote:

> On 4/8/24 16:11, Wols Lists wrote:
>> On 03/08/2024 18:15, Dale wrote:
>>> Well, what I'd like to do, install a email program that fetches the
>>> emails and then stores them on my system.  Then I can have
>>> Thunderbird or any other email program connect to that and view,
>>> create, send or whatever emails. Thing is, setting up the first
>>> program is complicated.  It is a bit over my head.  From what I've
>>> read, it is pretty picky too. It has to be fairly perfect or things
>>> don't work.  I'd need a seriously good how to to even get
>>> started. It could turn into another long thread like that goofy
>>> monitor.  :/
>>
>> That's basically fetchmail. Although I gather that's now
>> abandonware-ish. There is a successor iirc, but I stopped using it
>> because it broke...
>>
> Fetchmail isnt abandoned - they fixed it (though somewhat slowley) for
> the last openssl shmozzle update and it was working fine last I use
> it.
>
> Getmail (from v6.0) is probably the other main fetch app and other
> than some weirdness around how idle is implemented (it waits for
> messages then exits so you have to run it again) it works fine with
> standards compliant providers (not always the case!) I am using it
> with 4 email accounts shared between two people using postfix and
> courier-imap.  Overkill but it was what I was using when working and
> other than maintenance overhead it works fine in a gentoo VM.

Reading this only now, but there is also getmail proper (version smaller
than 6). Might just be harder to install if there's no ebuild ready
somewhere...

(I wonder what is Gentoo's position on this, given that what is being
made available as net-mail/getmail is *not* getmail. One thing is not
wanting getmail in the tree because of the python2 dependency, another
thing is allowing such a package name clash.)

I think getmail too has a mode where it runs, monitoring for new
messages?  At least I recall reading something about that, and the
manual does mention at least "-iFOLDER" for IMAP IDLE. No idea if it
exits that way too.

-- 
Nuno Silva