[gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Wols Lists]

I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I can 
find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem... and 
seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...

Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work properly. 
I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere to adjust 
it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double or treble 
clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag to select", 
the area the mouse drags over bears precious little resemblance to the 
are the mouse actually is. Combined with the "double click effect" it 
makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost unusable.

It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the 
system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard just 
no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just ignores it.

Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it

(systemd, kde system)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Jack]

On 5/14/23 16:33, Wols Lists wrote:
> I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I 
> can find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem... 
> and seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...
>
> Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work 
> properly. I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere 
> to adjust it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double 
> or treble clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag 
> to select", the area the mouse drags over bears precious little 
> resemblance to the are the mouse actually is. Combined with the 
> "double click effect" it makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost 
> unusable.
>
> It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the 
> system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard 
> just no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just 
> ignores it.
>
> Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it
>
> (systemd, kde system)
>
> Cheers,
> Wol

only some more straws to grab at

- any hints in dmesg?

- if it is a USB mouse, have you tried plugging it into a different 
port?  Have you tried a different mouse (to be sure it's not a hardware 
issue)

- have you tried xev?

- I have no idea if any of the settings in System 
Settings/Accessibility/Mouse Navigation might help, or at least help 
with debugging.

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Andrey F.]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1853 bytes --]

On Sun, May 14, 2023, 13:46 Jack <ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> On 5/14/23 16:33, Wols Lists wrote:
> > I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I
> > can find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem...
> > and seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...
> >
> > Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work
> > properly. I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere
> > to adjust it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double
> > or treble clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag
> > to select", the area the mouse drags over bears precious little
> > resemblance to the are the mouse actually is. Combined with the
> > "double click effect" it makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost
> > unusable.
>

I've had the same issue pop up on several occassions and the solution both
times was to use an air duster under the click buttons to push dust out. It
drove me crazy for a long time thinking it was software-related. Hopefully
it is as simple as that for you :)

>
> > It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the
> > system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard
> > just no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just
> > ignores it.
> >
> > Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it
> >
> > (systemd, kde system)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Wol
>
> only some more straws to grab at
>
> - any hints in dmesg?
>
> - if it is a USB mouse, have you tried plugging it into a different
> port?  Have you tried a different mouse (to be sure it's not a hardware
> issue)
>
> - have you tried xev?
>
> - I have no idea if any of the settings in System
> Settings/Accessibility/Mouse Navigation might help, or at least help
> with debugging.
>

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2633 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[mad.scientist.at.large]

The switches themselves do that when they start to wear out.  I've had it happen to a number of mice/track balls.  Indeed I'll soon be replacing those switches on several track balls and I'll use better switches that have the same dimensions.  It may be worth trying to de-dust and de-dust bunny them but it probably isn't the problem.

--"Fascism begins the moment a ruling class, fearing the people may use their political democracy to gain economic democracy, begins to destroy political democracy in order to retain its power of exploitation and special privilege." Tommy Douglas




May 14, 2023, 15:06 by ma3oxuct@gmail.com:

> On Sun, May 14, 2023, 13:46 Jack <> ostroffjh@users.sourceforge.net> > wrote:
>
>> On 5/14/23 16:33, Wols Lists wrote:
>>  > I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I 
>>  > can find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem... 
>>  > and seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...
>>  >
>>  > Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work 
>>  > properly. I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere 
>>  > to adjust it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double 
>>  > or treble clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag 
>>  > to select", the area the mouse drags over bears precious little 
>>  > resemblance to the are the mouse actually is. Combined with the 
>>  > "double click effect" it makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost 
>>  > unusable.
>>
>
> I've had the same issue pop up on several occassions and the solution both times was to use an air duster under the click buttons to push dust out. It drove me crazy for a long time thinking it was software-related. Hopefully it is as simple as that for you :)
>
>
>> >
>>  > It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the 
>>  > system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard 
>>  > just no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just 
>>  > ignores it.
>>  >
>>  > Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it
>>  >
>>  > (systemd, kde system)
>>  >
>>  > Cheers,
>>  > Wol
>>  
>>  only some more straws to grab at
>>  
>>  - any hints in dmesg?
>>  
>>  - if it is a USB mouse, have you tried plugging it into a different 
>>  port?  Have you tried a different mouse (to be sure it's not a hardware 
>>  issue)
>>  
>>  - have you tried xev?
>>  
>>  - I have no idea if any of the settings in System 
>>  Settings/Accessibility/Mouse Navigation might help, or at least help 
>>  with debugging.
>>

[gentoo-user] Re: Mouse pain

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 15/05/2023 03:46, mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com wrote:
> The switches themselves do that when they start to wear out.  I've had it happen to a number of mice/track balls.  Indeed I'll soon be replacing those switches on several track balls and I'll use better switches that have the same dimensions.  It may be worth trying to de-dust and de-dust bunny them but it probably isn't the problem.

I bought a mouse with optical switches, which are advertised to never 
develop this exact problem. I guess I'll have to wait for a couple years 
to see if the claims check out :P

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[William Kenworthy]

Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings with a 
number of useful items including acceleration, double click timings etc.

BillK


On 15/5/23 04:33, Wols Lists wrote:
> I've been having grief with my mouse for a while, and all the help I 
> can find is "how to adjust mouse speed", which is not my problem... 
> and seems to be about the only thing that is adjustable ...
>
> Basically even something as simple as left click doesn't work 
> properly. I'm guessing it's timing related, but I can't find anywhere 
> to adjust it. The symptoms are single clicks get interpreted as double 
> or treble clicks, and when I try (especially in games) to do a "drag 
> to select", the area the mouse drags over bears precious little 
> resemblance to the are the mouse actually is. Combined with the 
> "double click effect" it makes the mouse - randomly :-( ! - almost 
> unusable.
>
> It might well be tied into system lock-ups, as every now and then the 
> system simply stops responding, as in either the mouse and keyboard 
> just no longer work, or the mouse moves freely but the system just 
> ignores it.
>
> Basically I just don't know how - or where - to start debugging it
>
> (systemd, kde system)
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Mouse pain

[Wol]

On 15/05/2023 02:11, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 15/05/2023 03:46, mad.scientist.at.large@tutanota.com wrote:
>> The switches themselves do that when they start to wear out.  I've had 
>> it happen to a number of mice/track balls.  Indeed I'll soon be 
>> replacing those switches on several track balls and I'll use better 
>> switches that have the same dimensions.  It may be worth trying to 
>> de-dust and de-dust bunny them but it probably isn't the problem.
> 
> I bought a mouse with optical switches, which are advertised to never 
> develop this exact problem. I guess I'll have to wait for a couple years 
> to see if the claims check out :P
> 
Thanks everyone. It's a nice Logitech gaming mouse, so I didn't want it 
to be a pain to use (and I tried an old mouse to replace it which played 
up similarly ???), but

giving it a good blow underneath the mouse buttons appears to have done 
the trick!

Thanks all!

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Wols Lists]

On 15/05/2023 03:51, William Kenworthy wrote:
> Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings with a 
> number of useful items including acceleration, double click timings etc.

Yes. As I remember, KDE USED to have such a menu ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 504 bytes --]

On Monday, 15 May 2023 17:11:45 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> On 15/05/2023 03:51, William Kenworthy wrote:
> > Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings with a
> > number of useful items including acceleration, double click timings etc.
> 
> Yes. As I remember, KDE USED to have such a menu ...
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

Still does:

Go to SystemSettings > Input Devices > Mouse

(also there are menus for Keyboard, Game Controller, Drawing Tablet, Touchpad, 
Touchscreen, Virtual Keyboard).

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Jack]

On 5/15/23 12:11, Wols Lists wrote:
> On 15/05/2023 03:51, William Kenworthy wrote:
>> Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings 
>> with a number of useful items including acceleration, double click 
>> timings etc.
>
> Yes. As I remember, KDE USED to have such a menu ...
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
It still does - under Accessibility in System Settings.  Open System 
Settings and type "mouse" in the search box.

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Wols Lists]

On 15/05/2023 17:18, Michael wrote:
> On Monday, 15 May 2023 17:11:45 BST Wols Lists wrote:
>> On 15/05/2023 03:51, William Kenworthy wrote:
>>> Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings with a
>>> number of useful items including acceleration, double click timings etc.
>>
>> Yes. As I remember, KDE USED to have such a menu ...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wol
> 
> Still does:
> 
> Go to SystemSettings > Input Devices > Mouse
> 
> (also there are menus for Keyboard, Game Controller, Drawing Tablet, Touchpad,
> Touchscreen, Virtual Keyboard).

The MENU is there. The settings ARE NOT.

You can set pointer speed, swap left and right mouse buttons, and that's 
about it. I've got a fancy gaming mouse and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING 
beyond the complete basics that is configurable :-(

No middle button settings. No double click speed. No extra button 
settings. Zilch. Nada. F.all.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1391 bytes --]

On Monday, 15 May 2023 18:16:06 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> On 15/05/2023 17:18, Michael wrote:
> > On Monday, 15 May 2023 17:11:45 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> >> On 15/05/2023 03:51, William Kenworthy wrote:
> >>> Checked your menu? XFCE has a "mouse and touchpad" under settings with a
> >>> number of useful items including acceleration, double click timings etc.
> >> 
> >> Yes. As I remember, KDE USED to have such a menu ...
> >> 
> >> Cheers,
> >> Wol
> > 
> > Still does:
> > 
> > Go to SystemSettings > Input Devices > Mouse
> > 
> > (also there are menus for Keyboard, Game Controller, Drawing Tablet,
> > Touchpad, Touchscreen, Virtual Keyboard).
> 
> The MENU is there. The settings ARE NOT.
> 
> You can set pointer speed, swap left and right mouse buttons, and that's
> about it. I've got a fancy gaming mouse and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
> beyond the complete basics that is configurable :-(
> 
> No middle button settings. No double click speed. No extra button
> settings. Zilch. Nada. F.all.
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

Check the attached screenshots, relevant to this laptop.  There's pointer 
speed and scrolling speed for the USB mouse I have attached.  I use libinput 
for years now and as far as I recall I have not changed the default settings.  
I think different mouse models would generate different inputs and would offer 
more settings.  Mine is a simple wired optical mouse.

[-- Attachment #1.2: Screenshot_20230515_181821.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 46360 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #1.3: Screenshot_20230515_181908.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 66272 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

[gentoo-user] Re: Mouse pain

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 15/05/2023 20:16, Wols Lists wrote:
> I've got a fancy gaming mouse and there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING 
> beyond the complete basics that is configurable :-(

I also have such a mouse, but I have to configure it in Windows (using 
the "Logitech HUB" software.) Fortunately, the settings are stores on 
the mouse itself so it remembers the settings in Linux. Not optimal 
having to boot Windows to configure the mouse, but better than nothing :P

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Wol]

On 15/05/2023 18:25, Michael wrote:
> Check the attached screenshots, relevant to this laptop.  There's pointer
> speed and scrolling speed for the USB mouse I have attached.  I use libinput
> for years now and as far as I recall I have not changed the default settings.
> I think different mouse models would generate different inputs and would offer
> more settings.  Mine is a simple wired optical mouse.

I'm not at that system at the moment but ... where on your screenshot is 
the double click speed? Where is the "configure middle button"? etc etc.

You've got the basics, just like me ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1635 bytes --]

On Tuesday, 16 May 2023 01:03:31 BST Wol wrote:
> On 15/05/2023 18:25, Michael wrote:
> > Check the attached screenshots, relevant to this laptop.  There's pointer
> > speed and scrolling speed for the USB mouse I have attached.  I use
> > libinput for years now and as far as I recall I have not changed the
> > default settings. I think different mouse models would generate different
> > inputs and would offer more settings.  Mine is a simple wired optical
> > mouse.
> 
> I'm not at that system at the moment but ... where on your screenshot is
> the double click speed? Where is the "configure middle button"? etc etc.
> 
> You've got the basics, just like me ...
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

According to libinput this is what's available for my USB mouse:

# libinput list-devices
[snip ...]

Device:           PIXART USB OPTICAL MOUSE
Kernel:           /dev/input/event6
Group:            5
Seat:             seat0, default
Capabilities:     pointer 
Tap-to-click:     n/a
Tap-and-drag:     n/a
Tap drag lock:    n/a
Left-handed:      disabled
Nat.scrolling:    disabled
Middle emulation: disabled
Calibration:      n/a
Scroll methods:   button
Click methods:    none
Disable-w-typing: n/a
Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
Accel profiles:   flat *adaptive custom
Rotation:         0.0

It's a very basic three button mouse.  In Plasma-Wayland I get more options 
shown in the SystemSettings GUI, than when in Plasma on Xorg.  I don't know if 
tweaking '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf' will allow you to configure 
your mouse as you want to.  Settings configured in this file which work in 
Xorg do not necessarily work with Wayland.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[William Kenworthy]

On 16/5/23 23:52, Michael wrote:
> On Tuesday, 16 May 2023 01:03:31 BST Wol wrote:
>> On 15/05/2023 18:25, Michael wrote:
>>> Check the attached screenshots, relevant to this laptop.  There's pointer
>>> speed and scrolling speed for the USB mouse I have attached.  I use
>>> libinput for years now and as far as I recall I have not changed the
>>> default settings. I think different mouse models would generate different
>>> inputs and would offer more settings.  Mine is a simple wired optical
>>> mouse.
>> I'm not at that system at the moment but ... where on your screenshot is
>> the double click speed? Where is the "configure middle button"? etc etc.
>>
>> You've got the basics, just like me ...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wol
> According to libinput this is what's available for my USB mouse:
>
> # libinput list-devices
> [snip ...]
>
> Device:           PIXART USB OPTICAL MOUSE
> Kernel:           /dev/input/event6
> Group:            5
> Seat:             seat0, default
> Capabilities:     pointer
> Tap-to-click:     n/a
> Tap-and-drag:     n/a
> Tap drag lock:    n/a
> Left-handed:      disabled
> Nat.scrolling:    disabled
> Middle emulation: disabled
> Calibration:      n/a
> Scroll methods:   button
> Click methods:    none
> Disable-w-typing: n/a
> Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
> Accel profiles:   flat *adaptive custom
> Rotation:         0.0
>
> It's a very basic three button mouse.  In Plasma-Wayland I get more options
> shown in the SystemSettings GUI, than when in Plasma on Xorg.  I don't know if
> tweaking '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf' will allow you to configure
> your mouse as you want to.  Settings configured in this file which work in
> Xorg do not necessarily work with Wayland.


Here is mine:

Device:           Logitech M310
Kernel:           /dev/input/event11
Group:            3
Seat:             seat0, default
Capabilities:     pointer
Tap-to-click:     n/a
Tap-and-drag:     n/a
Tap drag lock:    n/a
Left-handed:      disabled
Nat.scrolling:    disabled
Middle emulation: disabled
Calibration:      n/a
Scroll methods:   button
Click methods:    none
Disable-w-typing: n/a
Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
Accel profiles:   flat *adaptive
Rotation:         n/a

In XFCE4 most of the settings appear part of the desktop/window manager.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] Mouse pain

[Michael]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3490 bytes --]

On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 00:20:52 BST William Kenworthy wrote:
> On 16/5/23 23:52, Michael wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 16 May 2023 01:03:31 BST Wol wrote:
> >> On 15/05/2023 18:25, Michael wrote:
> >>> Check the attached screenshots, relevant to this laptop.  There's
> >>> pointer
> >>> speed and scrolling speed for the USB mouse I have attached.  I use
> >>> libinput for years now and as far as I recall I have not changed the
> >>> default settings. I think different mouse models would generate
> >>> different
> >>> inputs and would offer more settings.  Mine is a simple wired optical
> >>> mouse.
> >> 
> >> I'm not at that system at the moment but ... where on your screenshot is
> >> the double click speed? Where is the "configure middle button"? etc etc.
> >> 
> >> You've got the basics, just like me ...
> >> 
> >> Cheers,
> >> Wol
> > 
> > According to libinput this is what's available for my USB mouse:
> > 
> > # libinput list-devices
> > [snip ...]
> > 
> > Device:           PIXART USB OPTICAL MOUSE
> > Kernel:           /dev/input/event6
> > Group:            5
> > Seat:             seat0, default
> > Capabilities:     pointer
> > Tap-to-click:     n/a
> > Tap-and-drag:     n/a
> > Tap drag lock:    n/a
> > Left-handed:      disabled
> > Nat.scrolling:    disabled
> > Middle emulation: disabled
> > Calibration:      n/a
> > Scroll methods:   button
> > Click methods:    none
> > Disable-w-typing: n/a
> > Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
> > Accel profiles:   flat *adaptive custom
> > Rotation:         0.0
> > 
> > It's a very basic three button mouse.  In Plasma-Wayland I get more
> > options
> > shown in the SystemSettings GUI, than when in Plasma on Xorg.  I don't
> > know if tweaking '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf' will allow you
> > to configure your mouse as you want to.  Settings configured in this file
> > which work in Xorg do not necessarily work with Wayland.
> 
> Here is mine:
> 
> Device:           Logitech M310
> Kernel:           /dev/input/event11
> Group:            3
> Seat:             seat0, default
> Capabilities:     pointer
> Tap-to-click:     n/a
> Tap-and-drag:     n/a
> Tap drag lock:    n/a
> Left-handed:      disabled
> Nat.scrolling:    disabled
> Middle emulation: disabled
> Calibration:      n/a
> Scroll methods:   button
> Click methods:    none
> Disable-w-typing: n/a
> Disable-w-trackpointing: n/a
> Accel profiles:   flat *adaptive
> Rotation:         n/a
> 
> In XFCE4 most of the settings appear part of the desktop/window manager.
> 
> BillK

OK, as far as libinput is concerned any function with "n/a" next to it means 
it does not exist on this device and therefore it is not configurable.  

https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/1.11.3/tools.html

Now, if you/the manufacturer state there is a certain function available and 
it should be configurable, then it is a question why this is not exposed by 
the driver/firmware to the kernel and libinput.  Libinput developers have 
stated they will not put effort into features of less common input devices, so 
I suppose there's that as a potential explanation.

If a function and setting is shown in the GUI of XFCE4 but not in Plasma's 
SystemSettings, you could try comparing the GUI settings in Plasma-Wayland Vs 
Plasma-Xorg and add what is missing in '/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-
libinput.conf'.  I don't know if settings configured in 40-libinput.conf will 
thereafter make them visible in the GUI, but either way it may provide a 
workaround.

[-- Attachment #2: This is a digitally signed message part. --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]