[gentoo-user] installation problems

[gentoo-user] installation problems

[Jude DaShiell]

No mount point on the minimal isos exists under /mnt where an installer
can temporarily mount another drive to copy output of errors or created
scripts that help them get around gentoo's installer limitations.
Earlier tonight I had been fighting with links since links insisted on
downloading an image rather than the stage3 file my cursor was located on
according to speakup.
I ended up putting the base url in a bash script along with an empty
download variable then using another computer to get the name of the
stage3 file and copying that into the download variable.  Then I ran the
script which used wget for the download.  My latest mistake was to try to
save that bash script since as soon as I left /mnt/gentoo everything on
/mnt/gentoo went away and all I was left with was a lost+found
subdirectory which was empty.
I at least still have the four partitions remaining on the gentoo disk.
It's also lucky I'm using drive sleds.  The decision to remove lynx from
the isos I think was not a good decision for screen reader users.  Now I'm
going to go back and repeat all of this stage3 download work and also
forget to save that bash script.


--

Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 02:01:14 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> No mount point on the minimal isos exists under /mnt where an installer
> can temporarily mount another drive to copy output of errors or created
> scripts that help them get around gentoo's installer limitations.

I haven't used the Gentoo installer discs for years, but you should be
able to create your own mount points.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

If you give a man a fish, he's fed for a day.
If you teach a man to fish, he'll buy a silly hat.
If you talk about fish to a starving man, you're a consultant.

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Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems

[Dale]

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Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 02:01:14 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>
>> No mount point on the minimal isos exists under /mnt where an installer
>> can temporarily mount another drive to copy output of errors or created
>> scripts that help them get around gentoo's installer limitations.
> I haven't used the Gentoo installer discs for years, but you should be
> able to create your own mount points.
>
>


Is it still supported?  I thought it was abandoned again a good while
back.  That thing has come and gone so many times, I can't keep up with
when it is active or isn't. 

Still think it is easier and you learn more doing it manually.  Each
his/her own I guess. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 4:53 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>
>> I haven't used the Gentoo installer discs for years, but you should be
>> able to create your own mount points.
>
> Is it still supported?  I thought it was abandoned again a good while back.  That thing has come and gone so many times, I can't keep up with when it is active or isn't.
>

The minimal CD, or creating mountpoints?  The former has always
existed, and the latter has existed since the 70s.

And please add non-html quotes - I really don't want to have to edit replies...

As far as the minimal CD goes, you an just create mountpoints, but
really I'm not sure why anybody uses it in the first place.  I just
use a liveCD from ubuntu or whatever - there are a bazillion liveCDs
(including Gentoo-based ones), and just about all of them are more
useful than the Gentoo minimal iso.  I'm not sure why we even produce
one, except maybe for the same reasons everybody sets the default
editor to nano.  :)

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 4:53 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't used the Gentoo installer discs for years, but you should be
>>> able to create your own mount points.
>> Is it still supported?  I thought it was abandoned again a good while back.  That thing has come and gone so many times, I can't keep up with when it is active or isn't.
>>
> The minimal CD, or creating mountpoints?  The former has always
> existed, and the latter has existed since the 70s.
>
> And please add non-html quotes - I really don't want to have to edit replies...
>
> As far as the minimal CD goes, you an just create mountpoints, but
> really I'm not sure why anybody uses it in the first place.  I just
> use a liveCD from ubuntu or whatever - there are a bazillion liveCDs
> (including Gentoo-based ones), and just about all of them are more
> useful than the Gentoo minimal iso.  I'm not sure why we even produce
> one, except maybe for the same reasons everybody sets the default
> editor to nano.  :)
>


I was talking about the Gentoo installer.  I'm thinking the OP is using
the installer to install Gentoo.  I'm not sure of it but it's possible. 
I noticed in one post that the OP seems to be using a text to speech
tool which may be the reason they are using a installer.  It may be
easier that way. 

Seamonkey does its own thing with email replies.  It seems to be based
on what others do and ignores what I've told it.  I manually requested
plain text for this one but to be honest, I'm not holding my breath on
it listening.  All emails going to gentoo.org or kde.org are supposed to
be plain text only.  It's been set that way for many years now and it
worked until a good while back.  I've done my part and told it.  I can't
fix it.  Maybe it's a feature.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 8:30 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I was talking about the Gentoo installer.  I'm thinking the OP is using
> the installer to install Gentoo.

Nowhere in his post does he say that.  It explicitly refers to the minimal CD.

That said, the email you replied to (which wasn't from the poster) had
language more suggestive of some kind of installer.

In any case, I have no idea if anybody has a working installer at this moment.

> I manually requested
> plain text for this one but to be honest, I'm not holding my breath on
> it listening.

Well, it worked.  Much appreciated.  Sorry it isn't behaving for you...  :)

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 08:37:43 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:

> > I was talking about the Gentoo installer.  I'm thinking the OP is
> > using the installer to install Gentoo.  
> 
> Nowhere in his post does he say that.  It explicitly refers to the
> minimal CD.
> 
> That said, the email you replied to (which wasn't from the poster) had
> language more suggestive of some kind of installer.

My bad, I meant Gentoo installation disc, not installer disc. The
auto-completion in my wetware is not what it used to be :(


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 004: Erroneous error - Nothing is wrong

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Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 8:44 AM Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 08:37:43 -0400, Rich Freeman wrote:
>
> > > I was talking about the Gentoo installer.  I'm thinking the OP is
> > > using the installer to install Gentoo.
> >
> > Nowhere in his post does he say that.  It explicitly refers to the
> > minimal CD.
> >
> > That said, the email you replied to (which wasn't from the poster) had
> > language more suggestive of some kind of installer.
>
> My bad, I meant Gentoo installation disc, not installer disc. The
> auto-completion in my wetware is not what it used to be :(
>

No worries - it was more a case of whisper-down-the-lane, with each
reply slightly changing the context.

-- 
Rich

[gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Grant Edwards]

On 2020-10-02, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> I was talking about the Gentoo installer.

Huh.  Didn't know there was one.  Is this it?

https://blogs.gentoo.org/chrisadr/2018/05/02/installer-a-basic-gentoo-system-anyone-can-install/

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Dale]

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Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2020-10-02, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was talking about the Gentoo installer.
> Huh.  Didn't know there was one.  Is this it?
>
> https://blogs.gentoo.org/chrisadr/2018/05/02/installer-a-basic-gentoo-system-anyone-can-install/
>
>
>
>


I dunno.  I tested the installer thing when it was first announced years
ago.  It failed to install.  It kept getting hung somewhere but with no
output that I could find, I didn't know what was wrong or what to fix. 
I ditched it into the trash and went back to the trusty manual install. 

I think the OP has vision problems.  I guess a installer of some sort
would be easier in that case, provided it doesn't error out with no
output. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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[gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Grant Edwards]

On 2020-10-02, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> I dunno. I tested the installer thing when it was first announced
> years ago. It failed to install. It kept getting hung somewhere but
> with no output that I could find, I didn't know what was wrong or
> what to fix.

Isn't that how automated installers are supposed to work?

;)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 14:43:43 -0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:

> > I dunno. I tested the installer thing when it was first announced
> > years ago. It failed to install. It kept getting hung somewhere but
> > with no output that I could find, I didn't know what was wrong or
> > what to fix.  
> 
> Isn't that how automated installers are supposed to work?
> 
> ;)

Only after they've reformatted your disk :(


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Favorite Windoze game: Guess what this icon does?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Dale]

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Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 14:43:43 -0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>>> I dunno. I tested the installer thing when it was first announced
>>> years ago. It failed to install. It kept getting hung somewhere but
>>> with no output that I could find, I didn't know what was wrong or
>>> what to fix.  
>> Isn't that how automated installers are supposed to work?
>>
>> ;)
> Only after they've reformatted your disk :(
>
>


You guys are getting to funny.  There's nothing like a installer
deciding you didn't partition your drives right and fixing it without
asking.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems

[Jude DaShiell]

I've never used a gentoo-live-cd and the reason I use the gentoo-minimal
-cd is it's possible to bring speakup up on boot and for those few of us
who can't see the screen and haven't got sighted help nearby, that makes
all manner of independent computer operations possible.

On Fri, 2 Oct 2020, Rich Freeman wrote:

> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 08:09:32
> From: Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>
> Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 4:53 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >
> >> I haven't used the Gentoo installer discs for years, but you should be
> >> able to create your own mount points.
> >
> > Is it still supported?  I thought it was abandoned again a good while back.  That thing has come and gone so many times, I can't keep up with when it is active or isn't.
> >
>
> The minimal CD, or creating mountpoints?  The former has always
> existed, and the latter has existed since the 70s.
>
> And please add non-html quotes - I really don't want to have to edit replies...
>
> As far as the minimal CD goes, you an just create mountpoints, but
> really I'm not sure why anybody uses it in the first place.  I just
> use a liveCD from ubuntu or whatever - there are a bazillion liveCDs
> (including Gentoo-based ones), and just about all of them are more
> useful than the Gentoo minimal iso.  I'm not sure why we even produce
> one, except maybe for the same reasons everybody sets the default
> editor to nano.  :)
>
>

-- 

Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems

[John Covici]

On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 08:51:52 -0400,
Jude DaShiell wrote:
> 
> I've never used a gentoo-live-cd and the reason I use the gentoo-minimal
> -cd is it's possible to bring speakup up on boot and for those few of us
> who can't see the screen and haven't got sighted help nearby, that makes
> all manner of independent computer operations possible.
> 
> On Fri, 2 Oct 2020, Rich Freeman wrote:
> 
> > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 08:09:32
> > From: Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>
> > Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> > Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] installation problems
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 4:53 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > >
> > >> I haven't used the Gentoo installer discs for years, but you should be
> > >> able to create your own mount points.
> > >
> > > Is it still supported?  I thought it was abandoned again a good while back.  That thing has come and gone so many times, I can't keep up with when it is active or isn't.
> > >
> >
> > The minimal CD, or creating mountpoints?  The former has always
> > existed, and the latter has existed since the 70s.
> >
> > And please add non-html quotes - I really don't want to have to edit replies...
> >
> > As far as the minimal CD goes, you an just create mountpoints, but
> > really I'm not sure why anybody uses it in the first place.  I just
> > use a liveCD from ubuntu or whatever - there are a bazillion liveCDs
> > (including Gentoo-based ones), and just about all of them are more
> > useful than the Gentoo minimal iso.  I'm not sure why we even produce
> > one, except maybe for the same reasons everybody sets the default
> > editor to nano.  :)
> >
> >

I have used the minimal cd, but I would think any gentoo cd would have
the speakup module in it, you can always check by downloading the iso,
getting to the /lib/modules directory -- which might involve mounting
a squashfs file system -- and checking if the speakup module is there.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

[gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Grant Edwards]

On 2020-10-02, Rich Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org> wrote:

> As far as the minimal CD goes, you an just create mountpoints, but
> really I'm not sure why anybody uses it in the first place.

I usually use it.  When I've tried to use systemrescuecd, I usually
ran into issues: you couldn't follow the handbook step-by-step and
expect it to work (IIRC, something to do with chroot?).  There were
fairly simple work-arounds, but it took time to figure out what was
wrong and what to do about it.

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Peter Humphrey]

(Kmail seems to have stopped quoting the message I'm replying to.)

I always use SystemRescueCD to install a new Gentoo system. Never a single 
problem with it, other than having to set up my own working conditions every 
time.

I don't know what version it is, but it must have been about the last they 
issued before switching to Arch.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[John Covici]

On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:23:57 -0400,
Peter Humphrey wrote:
> 
> (Kmail seems to have stopped quoting the message I'm replying to.)
> 
> I always use SystemRescueCD to install a new Gentoo system. Never a single 
> problem with it, other than having to set up my own working conditions every 
> time.
> 
> I don't know what version it is, but it must have been about the last they 
> issued before switching to Arch.

Is there anything more recent I c an use as a rescue disk?  I have
version 5.1 but after that, not sure what they did, but could not even
get a  decent root prompt and I do need zfs, otherwise there are many
options.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:32 AM John Covici <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>
> Is there anything more recent I c an use as a rescue disk?  I have
> version 5.1 but after that, not sure what they did, but could not even
> get a  decent root prompt and I do need zfs, otherwise there are many
> options.
>

Don't want to beat a dead horse, but zfs is also one of the reasons I
use the ubuntu cds.  It is easy to get zfs running on an ubuntu
livecd.  I forget if it is preinstalled, but I'm pretty sure it is all
packaged so it is basically a 1-2 liner to add it.  I haven't looked
at it recently but the Funtoo docs suggest doing the same which is
where I got the tip.

At the time systemrescuecd didn't support zfs out of copyright
concerns.  Perhaps that has changed.  People have strong feelings on
zfs.  I get them, though it is 100% FOSS (even if the licensing was
engineered to cause GPL issues).  IMO the biggest technical issue with
using it on linux is that it basically pulls in a bunch of other BSD
logic around stuff like caching so it isn't super-clean from a kernel
perspective.  However, that is also part of why it is so stable - they
basically containerized the thing so that they didn't have a bazillion
regressions, and I think they've been slowly working on getting rid of
the middle layers.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[John Covici]

On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:38:54 -0400,
Rich Freeman wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:32 AM John Covici <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
> >
> > Is there anything more recent I c an use as a rescue disk?  I have
> > version 5.1 but after that, not sure what they did, but could not even
> > get a  decent root prompt and I do need zfs, otherwise there are many
> > options.
> >
> 
> Don't want to beat a dead horse, but zfs is also one of the reasons I
> use the ubuntu cds.  It is easy to get zfs running on an ubuntu
> livecd.  I forget if it is preinstalled, but I'm pretty sure it is all
> packaged so it is basically a 1-2 liner to add it.  I haven't looked
> at it recently but the Funtoo docs suggest doing the same which is
> where I got the tip.
> 
> At the time systemrescuecd didn't support zfs out of copyright
> concerns.  Perhaps that has changed.  People have strong feelings on
> zfs.  I get them, though it is 100% FOSS (even if the licensing was
> engineered to cause GPL issues).  IMO the biggest technical issue with
> using it on linux is that it basically pulls in a bunch of other BSD
> logic around stuff like caching so it isn't super-clean from a kernel
> perspective.  However, that is also part of why it is so stable - they
> basically containerized the thing so that they didn't have a bazillion
> regressions, and I think they've been slowly working on getting rid of
> the middle layers.
> 

OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and
I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest
has that in the kernel.


-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:51 AM John Covici <covici@ccs.covici.com> wrote:
>
>
> OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and
> I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest
> has that in the kernel.
>

Yeah, I get that, though I think the ubuntu livecd has a text console
option - for servers it is the sort of thing people will want.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:51:22 -0400, John Covici wrote:

> OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and
> I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest
> has that in the kernel.

What about something like Vinux. It's an Ubuntu respin for visually
impaired users, with plenty of options for screen reading and
magnification.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

LISP: Lots of Infuriating & Silly Parentheses

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[John Covici]

On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 11:47:26 -0400,
Neil Bothwick wrote:
> 
> [1  <text/plain; US-ASCII (quoted-printable)>]
> On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:51:22 -0400, John Covici wrote:
> 
> > OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and
> > I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest
> > has that in the kernel.
> 
> What about something like Vinux. It's an Ubuntu respin for visually
> impaired users, with plenty of options for screen reading and
> magnification.

I have heard of that distro, there are some others like it as well, I
doubt it has zfs, but thanks for the thought.
I will see if the ubuntu live has what I need.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 13:06:11 -0400, John Covici wrote:

> > What about something like Vinux. It's an Ubuntu respin for visually
> > impaired users, with plenty of options for screen reading and
> > magnification.  
> 
> I have heard of that distro, there are some others like it as well, I
> doubt it has zfs, but thanks for the thought.
> I will see if the ubuntu live has what I need.

It's based on Ubuntu so it may still have zfs.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Okay, I pulled the pin. Now what? Hey, where are you going?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Jude DaShiell]

vinux is abandonware though for an installer environment still may work.
I've never used one installer system to install another system myself
though so if that's what we try it will be a new experience for me.

On Fri, 2 Oct 2020, Neil Bothwick wrote:

> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2020 11:47:26
> From: Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>
> Reply-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems
>
> On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 09:51:22 -0400, John Covici wrote:
>
> > OK, one problem is going to be, I need a command l ine, not a gui and
> > I need speakup, so I will have to check and see if the Ubunto latest
> > has that in the kernel.
>
> What about something like Vinux. It's an Ubuntu respin for visually
> impaired users, with plenty of options for screen reading and
> magnification.
>
>
>

-- 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Michael]

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On Saturday, 3 October 2020 08:37:54 BST Jude DaShiell wrote:
> vinux is abandonware though for an installer environment still may work.
> I've never used one installer system to install another system myself
> though so if that's what we try it will be a new experience for me.

Most Linux live media should work.  Some additional steps may be required 
compared to a Gentoo Live-CD.  If you take a look at section "Installation 
from non-Gentoo LiveCDs" in the following Gentoo wiki page, you'll get an 
understanding of what is involved:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Installation_alternatives

Hope this helps.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 4:59 AM Michael <confabulate@kintzios.com> wrote:
>
> Most Linux live media should work.  Some additional steps may be required
> compared to a Gentoo Live-CD.

Not really.  The process is the same.  Most of that webpage is just a
disclaimer that if you're having trouble with some odd livecd you may
or may not get help.

About the only commands you need on the livecd are those needed to
partition, create the filesystem, and chroot.  So a super-minimal one
would not be ideal, but if you don't know what mkfs is you might not
want to use Gentoo as your first distro.  :)

A lot of the more involved stuff on that page is for things like
PXE-based install or other exotic configs.  Yes, if you want to flash
your system with coreboot and then directly boot an iso hosted on a
website behind a VPN then there will be more steps than if you want to
just boot off of a USB stick like normal mortals.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Rich Freeman]

On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:23 AM Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I always use SystemRescueCD to install a new Gentoo system. Never a single
> problem with it, other than having to set up my own working conditions every
> time.
>

Personally I tend to use Ubuntu - mainly because it just gives you a
nice desktop experience and just works.  I can easily fire up a full
browser, open all the xterms I want, and so on.  I really don't care
about its pros/cons long-term because it is just a livecd - the
installed OS ends up the same no matter what distro you use to boot
off of.  It all runs in a chroot so the only OS component that really
impacts the install is the kernel.

But there are lots of choices.  I don't really have a problem with
Gentoo having its own minimal iso, but I do encourage people to use
something more functional, simply because there are already a ton of
good livecds out there, and Gentoo doesn't really need to invent its
own.  Since you only use the livecd image for an hour in the lifetime
of the entire system, it has pretty minimal impact on the overall
experience, even if it is the first thing you see.  So, why not take
advantage of the polish other distros have put into theirs?

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: installation problems

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 9:23 AM Peter Humphrey <peter@prh.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> I always use SystemRescueCD to install a new Gentoo system. Never a single
>> problem with it, other than having to set up my own working conditions every
>> time.
>>
> Personally I tend to use Ubuntu - mainly because it just gives you a
> nice desktop experience and just works.  I can easily fire up a full
> browser, open all the xterms I want, and so on.  I really don't care
> about its pros/cons long-term because it is just a livecd - the
> installed OS ends up the same no matter what distro you use to boot
> off of.  It all runs in a chroot so the only OS component that really
> impacts the install is the kernel.
>
> But there are lots of choices.  I don't really have a problem with
> Gentoo having its own minimal iso, but I do encourage people to use
> something more functional, simply because there are already a ton of
> good livecds out there, and Gentoo doesn't really need to invent its
> own.  Since you only use the livecd image for an hour in the lifetime
> of the entire system, it has pretty minimal impact on the overall
> experience, even if it is the first thing you see.  So, why not take
> advantage of the polish other distros have put into theirs?
>


I think I used Knoppix once and it worked fine.  As you say tho, about
anything Linux will work.  Just another option, in case someone reading
this needs it. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Installation problems

[Hendrik Boom]

A few months ago I tried installing gentoo.  It mostly succeedes, but I
was unable to boot the new system.

When I boot, it fails as follows:

>> Activating mdev
>> Determining root device
!! Block device /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo is not a valid block device
!! The root block device is unspecified or not detected
Please specify a device to boot, or "shell" for a shell
boot() ::


Now I originally installed this system using a chroot from a Debian etch
system.  I used genkernel to generate the kernel.  As far as I can
remember, I did specified the --lvm option.

Now perhaps the kernel is not OK because I ran genkernel in a chroot
running on a Debian kernel...

Perhaps I chose the wront options...

Perhaps I can fix things by rerunning genkernel with different options...

Or perhaps I need to start all over from a full-fledged gentoo install CD.

Please advise.

-- hendrik

P.S.  Soime Gory Details:
\
Here's the start of my /boot/gfub/menu.lst (on the boot partition for the
Debian etch system):

------------
# menu.lst - See: grub(8), info grub, update-grub(8)
#            grub-install(8), grub-floppy(8),
#            grub-md5-crypt, /usr/share/doc/grub
#            and /usr/share/doc/grub-doc/.

## default num
# Set the default entry to the entry number NUM. Numbering starts from 0, and
# the entry number 0 is the default if the command is not used.
#
# You can specify 'saved' instead of a number. In this case, the default entry
# is the entry saved with the command 'savedefault'.
# WARNING: If you are using dmraid do not change this entry to 'saved' or your
# array will desync and will not let you boot your system.
default		0

## timeout sec
# Set a timeout, in SEC seconds, before automatically booting the default entry
# (normally the first entry defined).
timeout		5

# Pretty colours
color cyan/blue white/blue

## password ['--md5'] passwd
# If used in the first section of a menu file, disable all interactive editing
# control (menu entry editor and command-line)  and entries protected by the
# command 'lock'
# e.g. password topsecret
#      password --md5 $1$gLhU0/$aW78kHK1QfV3P2b2znUoe/
# password topsecret

#
# examples
#
# title		Windows 95/98/NT/2000
# root		(hd0,0)
# makeactive
# chainloader	+1
#
# title		Linux
# root		(hd0,1)
# kernel	/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 ro
#

#
# Put static boot stanzas before and/or after AUTOMAGIC KERNEL LIST

### BEGIN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST
## lines between the AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST markers will be modified
## by the debian update-grub script except for the default options below

## DO NOT UNCOMMENT THEM, Just edit them to your needs

## ## Start Default Options ##
## default kernel options
## default kernel options for automagic boot options
## If you want special options for specific kernels use kopt_x_y_z
## where x.y.z is kernel version. Minor versions can be omitted.
## e.g. kopt=root=/dev/hda1 ro
##      kopt_2_6_8=root=/dev/hdc1 ro
##      kopt_2_6_8_2_686=root=/dev/hdc2 ro
# kopt=root=/dev/mapper/lovesong-etch ro

## default grub root device
## e.g. groot=(hd0,0)
# groot=(hd0,4)

## should update-grub create alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. alternative=true
##      alternative=false
# alternative=true

## should update-grub lock alternative automagic boot options
## e.g. lockalternative=true
##      lockalternative=false
# lockalternative=false

## additional options to use with the default boot option, but not with the
## alternatives
## e.g. defoptions=vga=791 resume=/dev/hda5
# defoptions=

## should update-grub lock old automagic boot options
## e.g. lockold=false
##      lockold=true
# lockold=false

## Xen hypervisor options to use with the default Xen boot option
# xenhopt=

## Xen Linux kernel options to use with the default Xen boot option
# xenkopt=console=tty0

## altoption boot targets option
## multiple altoptions lines are allowed
## e.g. altoptions=(extra menu suffix) extra boot options
##      altoptions=(single-user) single
# altoptions=(single-user mode) single

## controls how many kernels should be put into the menu.lst
## only counts the first occurence of a kernel, not the
## alternative kernel options
## e.g. howmany=all
##      howmany=7
# howmany=all

## should update-grub create memtest86 boot option
## e.g. memtest86=true
##      memtest86=false
# memtest86=true

## should update-grub adjust the value of the default booted system
## can be true or false
# updatedefaultentry=false

## ## End Default Options ##

title		Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-4-486
root		(hd0,4)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.18-4-486 root=/dev/mapper/lovesong-etch ro 
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.18-4-486
savedefault

title		Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-4-486 (single-user mode)
root		(hd0,4)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.18-4-486 root=/dev/mapper/lovesong-etch ro single
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.18-4-486
savedefault

title		Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-3-486
root		(hd0,4)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.18-3-486 root=/dev/mapper/lovesong-etch ro 
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.18-3-486
savedefault

title		Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-3-486 (single-user mode)
root		(hd0,4)
kernel		/vmlinuz-2.6.18-3-486 root=/dev/mapper/lovesong-etch ro single
initrd		/initrd.img-2.6.18-3-486
savedefault

### END DEBIAN AUTOMAGIC KERNELS LIST

# This is a divider, added to separate the menu items below from the Debian
# ones.
title		Other operating systems: gentoo
root		(hd0,5)
kernel		/kernel-genkernel-x86-2.6.20-gentoo-r8 root=/dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo ro single
initrd		/initramfs-genkernel-x86-2.6.20-gentoo-r8



# This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for an existing
# linux installation on /dev/hdc4.
title		Debian GNU/Linux, kernel 2.6.18-3-k7 (on /dev/hdc4)
root		(hd1,3)
kernel		/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.18-3-k7 root=/dev/hda3 ro 
initrd		/boot/initrd.img-2.6.18-3-k7
savedefault
boot
-----

and many more irrelevan stanzas.

The Debian systen gives me

hendrik@lovesong:~$ ls /dev/mapper
control        lovesong-gentoo  lovesong-sarge
lovesong-etch  lovesong-other   lovesong-spare
hendrik@lovesong:~$


But the gentoo system (if I shoose to enter a shell after booting) tells
me the only entry in /dev/mapper is /dev/mapper/control


As I said earlier, please advise.

-- hendrik
...
...

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Installation problems

[ds]

On 7/13/07, Hendrik Boom <hendrik@topoi.pooq.com> wrote:
> A few months ago I tried installing gentoo.  It mostly succeedes, but I
> was unable to boot the new system.
>
> When I boot, it fails as follows:
>
> >> Activating mdev
> >> Determining root device
> !! Block device /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo is not a valid block device
> !! The root block device is unspecified or not detected
> Please specify a device to boot, or "shell" for a shell
> boot() ::
>
>
> Now I originally installed this system using a chroot from a Debian etch
> system.  I used genkernel to generate the kernel.  As far as I can
> remember, I did specified the --lvm option.
>
> Now perhaps the kernel is not OK because I ran genkernel in a chroot
> running on a Debian kernel...
>
> Perhaps I chose the wront options...
>
> Perhaps I can fix things by rerunning genkernel with different options...
>
> Or perhaps I need to start all over from a full-fledged gentoo install CD.
>
> Please advise.
>
> -- hendrik
>
> P.S.  Soime Gory Details:

hendrik -

My gut reaction is that you should just start over and install from
scratch.  I have only installed Gentoo by booting from the Gentoo
install CD in the past, so I'm not familiar with using chroot from a
Debian system.  I think the best and most well documented way to do a
Gentoo install is to simply follow the handbook
(http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml).

It is very easy to install Gentoo along with other OS's.  You just
need to have a partition or two handy.  In my case, when I'm
rebuilding my system from scratch I've always installed Gentoo third
(Windows XP first, openSUSE second, then Gentoo).  I use two
partitions for Gentoo, a /boot partition and a / partition, and I use
the swap partition that was created for openSUSE for Gentoo as well.
Then, I don't install grub in Gentoo, I simply add a Gentoo entry to
the grub menu in openSUSE.

I haven't personally used LVM with Gentoo, but I have set up an Ubuntu
Server box with LVM and my experience is that it is best not to bother
with LVM unless you really know you're going to need it.  In any case,
the documentation I was following for Ubuntu required at least the
/boot partition be non-LVM for grub to read the kernel off of it, but
this may be due to a lack of knowledge in the workings of grub and
LVM.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Hendrik Boom]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:49:45 -0700, ds wrote:

> On 7/13/07, Hendrik Boom <hendrik@topoi.pooq.com> wrote:
>> A few months ago I tried installing gentoo.  It mostly succeedes, but I
>> was unable to boot the new system.
>>
>> When I boot, it fails as follows:
>>
>> >> Activating mdev
>> >> Determining root device
>> !! Block device /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo is not a valid block device
>> !! The root block device is unspecified or not detected
>> Please specify a device to boot, or "shell" for a shell
>> boot() ::
>>
>>
>> Now I originally installed this system using a chroot from a Debian etch
>> system.  I used genkernel to generate the kernel.  As far as I can
>> remember, I did specified the --lvm option.
>>
>> Now perhaps the kernel is not OK because I ran genkernel in a chroot
>> running on a Debian kernel...
>>
>> Perhaps I chose the wront options...
>>
>> Perhaps I can fix things by rerunning genkernel with different options...
>>
>> Or perhaps I need to start all over from a full-fledged gentoo install CD.
>>
>> Please advise.
>>
>> -- hendrik
>>
>> P.S.  Some Gory Details:
> 
> hendrik -
> 
> My gut reaction is that you should just start over and install from
> scratch.  I have only installed Gentoo by booting from the Gentoo
> install CD in the past, so I'm not familiar with using chroot from a
> Debian system.  I think the best and most well documented way to do a
> Gentoo install is to simply follow the handbook
> (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml).

That's what I was doing, except that I chrooted from Debian instead of
from the gentoo boot disk.  I suspect the difference is that I was running
a Debian kernel when running genkernel; if genkernel asks the running
kernel what options it was compiled with (which I believe it does), it
may not have gotten the information it needed.

>
> It is very easy to install Gentoo along with other OS's.  You just need
> to have a partition or two handy.  In my case, when I'm rebuilding my
> system from scratch I've always installed Gentoo third (Windows XP
> first, openSUSE second, then Gentoo).  I use two partitions for Gentoo,
> a /boot partition and a / partition, and I use the swap partition that
> was created for openSUSE for Gentoo as well. Then, I don't install grub
> in Gentoo, I simply add a Gentoo entry to the grub menu in openSUSE.
> 
> I haven't personally used LVM with Gentoo, but I have set up an Ubuntu
> Server box with LVM and my experience is that it is best not to bother
> with LVM unless you really know you're going to need it.  In any case,
> the documentation I was following for Ubuntu required at least the /boot
> partition be non-LVM for grub to read the kernel off of it, but this may
> be due to a lack of knowledge in the workings of grub and LVM.

LVM works fine with Debian.  I figure I just need to learn what to do to
gentoo that Debian does automatically.  And you're right.  Booting from
the installation disk will probably help.  It shouldn't be necessary, but
I certainly will try it.

I do expect to need LVM.  Lack of flexibility in partition resizing was the
big problem with my previous set of OS installations on this machine (with
a smaller hard disk).

I suspect the problem with the kernel I'm using is that in some way it
does not properly recognize lvm -- perhaps because something isn't
compiled in, or because it needs an option to trigger it to look for lvm
volumes.  My /boot partition is an ordinary partition.  It's my /
partition that's LVM.

Debian etch is set up in the same way, with an ordinary secondary
partition for /boot, and an LVM for /.

(Users' home directories are on another machine entirely; will be mounted
using NFS.)

-- hendrik

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 883 bytes --]

On Saturday 14 July 2007 12:18, Hendrik Boom wrote:

> That's what I was doing, except that I chrooted from Debian instead of
> from the gentoo boot disk.  I suspect the difference is that I was running
> a Debian kernel when running genkernel; if genkernel asks the running
> kernel what options it was compiled with (which I believe it does), it
> may not have gotten the information it needed.

I don't know much about lvm, but as far as getting a kernel that works, have 
you tried copying your Debian kernel's .config file into 
gentoo's /usr/src/linux/.config and then cd /usr/src/linux and run make 
oldconfig?  Finish it off with make && make modules_install.  Then copy the 
kernel image, System.map to your boot and edit your grub.conf to point it 
there.  Genkernel if full of fat most of which you probably don't need 
anyway.

HTH.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

[-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 189 bytes --]

Re: [gentoo-user] Installation problems

[Mike Williams]

On Friday 13 July 2007 20:19:33 Hendrik Boom wrote:
> A few months ago I tried installing gentoo.  It mostly succeedes, but I
> was unable to boot the new system.
>
> When I boot, it fails as follows:
> >> Activating mdev
> >> Determining root device
>
> !! Block device /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo is not a valid block device
> !! The root block device is unspecified or not detected
> Please specify a device to boot, or "shell" for a shell
> boot() ::

Have you looked at:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Install_Gentoo_on_an_LVM2_root_partition
?

In all the noise, and seemingly outdated info, I picked out the use of 
the "proper" LVM path (/dev/VG/LV), and the dolvm2 kernel option.

-- 
Mike Williams
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:28:00 +0100, Mike Williams wrote:

> On Friday 13 July 2007 20:19:33 Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> A few months ago I tried installing gentoo.  It mostly succeedes, but I
>> was unable to boot the new system.
>>
>> When I boot, it fails as follows:
>> >> Activating mdev
>> >> Determining root device
>>
>> !! Block device /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo is not a valid block device
>> !! The root block device is unspecified or not detected
>> Please specify a device to boot, or "shell" for a shell
>> boot() ::
> 
> Have you looked at:
> http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Install_Gentoo_on_an_LVM2_root_partition
> ?
> 
> In all the noise, and seemingly outdated info, I picked out the use of 
> the "proper" LVM path (/dev/VG/LV), and the dolvm2 kernel option.

Very interesting.  It gets further with the dolvm2 pernel option (I
specified udev first for good measure, as indicated in the howto, and it
got further.  However, it still fails to handle
/dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo properly.  fsck complains about it, and I get
to type "shell" for a shell.  There I find that
/dev/mapper/lovesong-mapper does not exost (as testified by ls), but that
it is nonetheless mounted on / (as testified by mount).

This suggests that (a) it was mounted, and (b) something else was mounted
over the path to /dev/mapper/lovesong-mapper afterward.  So something is
clearly finding /dev/lovesong/mapper, and then making it inaccessible.

By the way, I didn't find a /dev/VG/ directory either.

Here's a hand-transcribed screen dump extract:

Let's explore the strangeness.

Finaluizizing udev configuration ...                [ok]
Mounting devpts at /dev/pts ...                [ok]
Checking root filesystem ...
fsck.ext3: No such file or directory while trying to open
/dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo
/dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo:
The superblock could not he rad or does not describe a correct ext2
filesystem.  if the device is valid and it really contains an ext2
filesystem (and not swap or ufs or something else), then the superblock
is corrupt, and you might try running e2fsck with an alternate
superblock:
    e2fsck -b 8193 <device>

 * Filesystem couldn't be fixed :(               [ !! ]
Give root password for maintenance
(or type Control-D to continue):
(none) ~ # ls /dev/mapper/
control
(none) ~ #l mount
/dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo on / type ext2 (rw,noatime)
/dev/hda6 on /boot type ext2 (rw,noatime)
(none) ~ # ls /
bin   dev  fooo  lib    mnt  proc  root  sys  tmp  var
boot etc home lost+found opt realboot sbin tboot usr
(none) ~ # ls /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo
ls: cannot access /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo: No such file or directory
(none) ~ # 

-- hendrik

>
> --
> Mike Williams

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Mike Williams]

On Saturday 14 July 2007 18:53:27 Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Very interesting.  It gets further with the dolvm2 pernel option (I
> specified udev first for good measure, as indicated in the howto, and it
> got further.  However, it still fails to handle
> /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo properly.  fsck complains about it, and I get
> to type "shell" for a shell.  There I find that
> /dev/mapper/lovesong-mapper does not exost (as testified by ls), but that
> it is nonetheless mounted on / (as testified by mount).

OK, that's not exactly what I expected to happen, but I guess the initrd/ramfs 
has the same udev setup as the full system so either the udev and 
the "proper" LVM path could be used.
I prefer using the "proper" LVM paths, as early udevs won't create the other 
nodes and later ones may also not do so (udev is pretty stable now, so I 
realise it's highly unlikely).

udev path == /dev/mapper/VG-LV
"proper" LVM path == /dev/VG/LV

> This suggests that (a) it was mounted, and (b) something else was mounted
> over the path to /dev/mapper/lovesong-mapper afterward.  So something is
> clearly finding /dev/lovesong/mapper, and then making it inaccessible.

a and b, the initrd/ramfs is mounted as / from ram by the kernel after it's 
booted, the initrd/ramfs does it's stuff, then "pivots" the / device to the 
real_root device on the kernel command line.
The / device you specify in fstab is never actually mounted, as to read it / 
needs to be mounted, so the kernel or initrd/ramfs does it based on the 
kernel arguements.
As a workaround you can make checkfs not attempt an fsck on the / device. In 
fstab set the final column on the / entry to 0, it's almost certainly 1. This 
number defines the order in which devices are fsck'd, 0 means don't do 
anything.

> By the way, I didn't find a /dev/VG/ directory either.

No /dev/lovesong/ ? Assuming your VolumeGroup is actually called lovesong.

-- 
Mike Williams
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:00:47 +0100, Mike Williams wrote:

> On Saturday 14 July 2007 18:53:27 Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> Very interesting.  It gets further with the dolvm2 pernel option (I
>> specified udev first for good measure, as indicated in the howto, and it
>> got further.  However, it still fails to handle
>> /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo properly.  fsck complains about it, and I get
>> to type "shell" for a shell.  There I find that
>> /dev/mapper/lovesong-mapper does not exost (as testified by ls), but that
>> it is nonetheless mounted on / (as testified by mount).
> 
> OK, that's not exactly what I expected to happen, but I guess the initrd/ramfs 
> has the same udev setup as the full system so either the udev and 
> the "proper" LVM path could be used.
> I prefer using the "proper" LVM paths, as early udevs won't create the other 
> nodes and later ones may also not do so (udev is pretty stable now, so I 
> realise it's highly unlikely).
> 
> udev path == /dev/mapper/VG-LV
> "proper" LVM path == /dev/VG/LV
> 
>> This suggests that (a) it was mounted, and (b) something else was mounted
>> over the path to /dev/mapper/lovesong-mapper afterward.  So something is
>> clearly finding /dev/lovesong/mapper, and then making it inaccessible.
> 
> a and b, the initrd/ramfs is mounted as / from ram by the kernel after it's 
> booted, the initrd/ramfs does it's stuff, then "pivots" the / device to the 
> real_root device on the kernel command line.
> The / device you specify in fstab is never actually mounted, as to read it / 
> needs to be mounted, so the kernel or initrd/ramfs does it based on the 
> kernel arguements.
> As a workaround you can make checkfs not attempt an fsck on the / device. In 
> fstab set the final column on the / entry to 0, it's almost certainly 1. This 
> number defines the order in which devices are fsck'd, 0 means don't do 
> anything.

As another workaround I could just continue using Debian etch.  I probably
have the time to get it fixed right.

>
>> By the way, I didn't find a /dev/VG/ directory either.
> 
> No /dev/lovesong/ ? Assuming your VolumeGroup is actually called
> lovesong.

Yes, there is a /dev/lovesong, on both Debian and gentoo, and even a
/dev/lovesong/gentoo!  (confusion existed because I once installed a
Debian system that actually called its newly created volume group "VG".) So
I have changed all references to /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo in the
menu.lst so they say /dev/lovesong/gentoo.  I *still* get fsck complaining
about /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo, which still does not exits.
 Where is it getting that name?

(thinks)

AH!  From gentoo's /etc/fstab!  Will fix and report back.

-- hendrik

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 19:37:57 +0000, Hendrik Boom wrote:

> On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:00:47 +0100, Mike Williams wrote:
> 
>> On Saturday 14 July 2007 18:53:27 Hendrik Boom wrote:
>>> Very interesting.  It gets further with the dolvm2 pernel option (I
>>> specified udev first for good measure, as indicated in the howto, and it
>>> got further.  However, it still fails to handle
>>> /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo properly.  fsck complains about it, and I get
>>> to type "shell" for a shell.  There I find that
>>> /dev/mapper/lovesong-mapper does not exost (as testified by ls), but that
>>> it is nonetheless mounted on / (as testified by mount).
>> 
>> OK, that's not exactly what I expected to happen, but I guess the initrd/ramfs 
>> has the same udev setup as the full system so either the udev and 
>> the "proper" LVM path could be used.
>> I prefer using the "proper" LVM paths, as early udevs won't create the other 
>> nodes and later ones may also not do so (udev is pretty stable now, so I 
>> realise it's highly unlikely).
>> 
>> udev path == /dev/mapper/VG-LV
>> "proper" LVM path == /dev/VG/LV
>> 
>>> This suggests that (a) it was mounted, and (b) something else was mounted
>>> over the path to /dev/mapper/lovesong-mapper afterward.  So something is
>>> clearly finding /dev/lovesong/mapper, and then making it inaccessible.
>> 
>> a and b, the initrd/ramfs is mounted as / from ram by the kernel after it's 
>> booted, the initrd/ramfs does it's stuff, then "pivots" the / device to the 
>> real_root device on the kernel command line.
>> The / device you specify in fstab is never actually mounted, as to read it / 
>> needs to be mounted, so the kernel or initrd/ramfs does it based on the 
>> kernel arguements.
>> As a workaround you can make checkfs not attempt an fsck on the / device. In 
>> fstab set the final column on the / entry to 0, it's almost certainly 1. This 
>> number defines the order in which devices are fsck'd, 0 means don't do 
>> anything.
> 
> As another workaround I could just continue using Debian etch.  I probably
> have the time to get it fixed right.
> 
>>
>>> By the way, I didn't find a /dev/VG/ directory either.
>> 
>> No /dev/lovesong/ ? Assuming your VolumeGroup is actually called
>> lovesong.
> 
> Yes, there is a /dev/lovesong, on both Debian and gentoo, and even a
> /dev/lovesong/gentoo!  (confusion existed because I once installed a
> Debian system that actually called its newly created volume group "VG".) So
> I have changed all references to /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo in the
> menu.lst so they say /dev/lovesong/gentoo.  I *still* get fsck complaining
> about /dev/mapper/lovesong-gentoo, which still does not exits.
>  Where is it getting that name?
> 
> (thinks)
> 
> AH!  From gentoo's /etc/fstab!  Will fix and report back.

Fixed /etc/fstab so that it now refers to /dev/lovesong/gentoo.  And fstab
gets the message, because it now complains that there's no
/dev/lovesong/gentoo.  And when I get a shell, I discover that it's
right.  There is now no /etc/lovesong at all.  /dev/mapper exists, but it
contains only /dev/mapper/control.

using your workaround of changing the pass from 1 to 0 in the /etc/fstab
file, it boots.  But I still have no access to the other partitions on
the disk.  I still have no /dev/lovesong. except of course that
/dev/lovesong/gentoo has been mounted.  And /dev/mapper still contains
only /dev/mapper/control.

-- hendrik

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Mike Williams]

On Sunday 15 July 2007 22:00:15 Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Fixed /etc/fstab so that it now refers to /dev/lovesong/gentoo.  And fstab
> gets the message, because it now complains that there's no
> /dev/lovesong/gentoo.  And when I get a shell, I discover that it's
> right.  There is now no /etc/lovesong at all.  /dev/mapper exists, but it
> contains only /dev/mapper/control.
>
> using your workaround of changing the pass from 1 to 0 in the /etc/fstab
> file, it boots.  But I still have no access to the other partitions on
> the disk.  I still have no /dev/lovesong. except of course that
> /dev/lovesong/gentoo has been mounted.  And /dev/mapper still contains
> only /dev/mapper/control.

Hmm, more interesting.
Sounds like you don't have lvm2 (sys-fs/lvm2) installed. Genkernel pulls it's 
own version in to build the initrd/ramfs, but the actual install will need it 
merged separately to "start" LVM at boot.
If you get Gentoo booted you could try manually "starting" LVM:
vgscan
pvscan
vgchange -ay

It's vgchange -ay that makes all logical volumes in all volume groups 
available, the two scans just makes sure device mapper is aware of all 
devices and volumes.

-- 
Mike Williams
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Hendrik Boom]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 22:42:43 +0100, Mike Williams wrote:

> On Sunday 15 July 2007 22:00:15 Hendrik Boom wrote:
>> Fixed /etc/fstab so that it now refers to /dev/lovesong/gentoo.  And fstab
>> gets the message, because it now complains that there's no
>> /dev/lovesong/gentoo.  And when I get a shell, I discover that it's
>> right.  There is now no /etc/lovesong at all.  /dev/mapper exists, but it
>> contains only /dev/mapper/control.
>>
>> using your workaround of changing the pass from 1 to 0 in the /etc/fstab
>> file, it boots.  But I still have no access to the other partitions on
>> the disk.  I still have no /dev/lovesong. except of course that
>> /dev/lovesong/gentoo has been mounted.  And /dev/mapper still contains
>> only /dev/mapper/control.
> 
> Hmm, more interesting.
> Sounds like you don't have lvm2 (sys-fs/lvm2) installed. Genkernel pulls it's 
> own version in to build the initrd/ramfs, but the actual install will need it 
> merged separately to "start" LVM at boot.
> If you get Gentoo booted you could try manually "starting" LVM:
> vgscan
> pvscan
> vgchange -ay
> 
> It's vgchange -ay that makes all logical volumes in all volume groups 
> available, the two scans just makes sure device mapper is aware of all 
> devices and volumes.
> 
> -- 
> Mike Williams

It took some trouble -- as of now I only have emerge working in the chroot
from Debian -- but after installing lvm2 it is not cheerfully recognising
all the LVM paritions at boot.

Now for the next problem.  emerge doesn't work because the net connexion
is down.  Presulably it would be OK if I had a local repository, but iI
don't.

If I ping my internet gateway machine, 172.25.1.1. it tells me 

PING 172.25.1.1 (172.25.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data.

--- 172.25.1.1 ping statistics ---
3 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 2003ms

whereas when I do the same from Debian, 

PING 172.25.1.1 (172.25.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 172.25.1.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=0.811 ms
64 bytes from 172.25.1.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=0.364 ms

--- 172.25.1.1 ping statistics ---
2 packets transmitted, 2 received, 0% packet loss, time 999ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.364/0.587/0.811/0.224 ms

Here's the routing table, obtained with route -n

Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
172.25.1.0      0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth0
127.0.0.0       0.0.0.0         255.0.0.0       U     0      0        0 lo
0.0.0.0         172.25.1.1      0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth0

And the same from Debian:

Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
172.25.1.0      0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 eth1
0.0.0.0         172.25.1.1      0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 eth1

Except for lo (which I can wonder about anon) the most striking difference
is that gentoo uses eth0; whereas Debian uses eth1.

Now as far as I know, there's only one ethernet interface on this machine.
But I could be wrong.  I do know that there's just one place to plug the
cable into the back.

Running ifconfig to find out more, especially to see if the MAC addresses
are different:

On gentoo:

eth0      Link encap:UNSPEC  HWaddr 00-06-BB-00-16-03-49-D6-00-00-00-00-00-00-00-00  
          inet addr:172.25.1.4  Bcast:172.25.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:8 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:0 (0.0 b)  TX bytes:288 (288.0 b)

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback  
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:4 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:4 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
          RX bytes:448 (448.0 b)  TX bytes:448 (448.0 b)


and on Debian:

eth1      Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:0C:6E:50:27:B1
          inet addr:172.25.1.4  Bcast:172.25.1.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::20c:6eff:fe50:27b1/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:33028 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:32429 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
          RX bytes:26715240 (25.4 MiB)  TX bytes:25032114 (23.8 MiB)
          Interrupt:177 Base address:0xc000

lo        Link encap:Local Loopback
          inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
          inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
          UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
          RX packets:54 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:54 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
          RX bytes:4468 (4.3 KiB)  TX bytes:4468 (4.3 KiB)

Now that's a surprise.  Quite sone difference!  Debian gives ma an
ordinary 48-bit hardware address.  Gentoo gives a 128-bit hardware
address!  And the bits of the 48-bit address aren't even recognisable
in the 128-bit address.  Now I understand that hardware addresses have been
getting longer, but O haven't been adding ethernet chips to this machine
since I bought it, so they should all be of the same vintage.

What gives?

Here's the output from gentoo-s lspci -v:

00:00.0 Host bridge: nVidia Corporation nForce2 AGP (different version?) (rev c1)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 80ac
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0
	Memory at e8000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M]
	Capabilities: [40] AGP version 2.0
	Capabilities: [60] HyperTransport: Host or Secondary Interface

00:00.1 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 0 (rev c1)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 80ac
	Flags: 66MHz, fast devsel

00:00.2 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 4 (rev c1)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 80ac
	Flags: 66MHz, fast devsel

00:00.3 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 3 (rev c1)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 80ac
	Flags: 66MHz, fast devsel

00:00.4 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 2 (rev c1)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 80ac
	Flags: 66MHz, fast devsel

00:00.5 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Memory Controller 5 (rev c1)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 80ac
	Flags: 66MHz, fast devsel

00:01.0 ISA bridge: nVidia Corporation nForce2 ISA Bridge (rev a4)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. A7N8X Mainboard
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0
	Capabilities: [48] HyperTransport: Slave or Primary Interface

00:01.1 SMBus: nVidia Corporation nForce2 SMBus (MCP) (rev a2)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 0c11
	Flags: 66MHz, fast devsel, IRQ 11
	I/O ports at e400 [size=32]
	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2

00:02.0 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 USB Controller (rev a4) (prog-if 10 [OHCI])
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. A7N8X Mainboard
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17
	Memory at ef004000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2

00:02.1 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 USB Controller (rev a4) (prog-if 10 [OHCI])
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. A7N8X Mainboard
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 18
	Memory at ef005000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2

00:02.2 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 USB Controller (rev a4) (prog-if 20 [EHCI])
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. A7N8X Mainboard
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16
	Memory at ef000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256]
	Capabilities: [44] Debug port
	Capabilities: [80] Power Management version 2

00:04.0 Ethernet controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Ethernet Controller (rev a1)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. A7N8X Mainboard onboard nForce2 Ethernet
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 16
	Memory at ef001000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
	I/O ports at d000 [size=8]
	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2

00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 AC97 Audio Controler (MCP) (rev a1)
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 8095
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 17
	I/O ports at d400 [size=256]
	I/O ports at d800 [size=128]
	Memory at ef002000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2

00:08.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation nForce2 External PCI Bridge (rev a3) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0
	Bus: primary=00, secondary=01, subordinate=01, sec-latency=32

00:09.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation nForce2 IDE (rev a2) (prog-if 8a [Master SecP PriP])
	Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Unknown device 0c11
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0
	[virtual] Memory at 000001f0 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [disabled] [size=8]
	[virtual] Memory at 000003f0 (type 3, non-prefetchable) [disabled] [size=1]
	[virtual] Memory at 00000170 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [disabled] [size=8]
	[virtual] Memory at 00000370 (type 3, non-prefetchable) [disabled] [size=1]
	I/O ports at f000 [size=16]
	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2

00:1e.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation nForce2 AGP (rev c1) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
	Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 32
	Bus: primary=00, secondary=02, subordinate=03, sec-latency=32
	I/O behind bridge: 0000c000-0000cfff
	Memory behind bridge: ec000000-eeffffff
	Prefetchable memory behind bridge: e0000000-e7ffffff

02:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc R200 BB [Radeon All in Wonder 8500DV] (prog-if 00 [VGA])
	Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon 8500 AIW DV Edition
	Flags: bus master, stepping, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 5
	Memory at e0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=128M]
	I/O ports at c000 [size=256]
	Memory at ee000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128K]
	Memory at ee020000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K]
	[virtual] Expansion ROM at ec000000 [disabled] [size=128K]
	Capabilities: [58] AGP version 2.0
	Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2

02:00.1 PCI bridge: ATI Technologies Inc R200 BC [Radeon All in Wonder 8500] (prog-if 00 [Normal decode])
	Flags: bus master, stepping, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 32
	Bus: primary=02, secondary=03, subordinate=03, sec-latency=32
	Memory behind bridge: ed000000-edffffff
	Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2

03:00.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Agere Systems FW323 (rev 04) (prog-if 10 [OHCI])
	Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device 5811
	Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 19
	Memory at ed000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2

Only one ethernet controllser visible.  Ans except for a different IRQ,
it's remarkably similar to what Debian says:

......

00:04.0 Ethernet controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 Ethernet Controller (rev a1)
        Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. A7N8X Mainboard onboard nForce2 Ethernet
        Flags: bus master, 66MHz, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 177
        Memory at ef001000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
        I/O ports at d000 [size=8]
        Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2
......

Evidently something is still wrong.  How do I begin to diagnose this?

-- hendrik

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:03:57 +0000, Hendrik Boom wrote:

> 
> It took some trouble -- as of now I only have emerge working in the chroot
> from Debian -- but after installing lvm2 it is not cheerfully recognising
> all the LVM paritions at boot.

Ah! Stupid typo!  it is *NOW* cheerfully recognising all the LVM
partitions at boot.  Why doesn't English have a better Hamming distance
between words?
:-)

-- hendrik

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Mike Williams]

On Tuesday 17 July 2007 17:03:57 Hendrik Boom wrote:
> It took some trouble -- as of now I only have emerge working in the chroot
> from Debian -- but after installing lvm2 it is not cheerfully recognising
> all the LVM paritions at boot.

All a good learning process, glad you got it working.
Oh and you're right, english sucks, and I'm english.

> Now for the next problem.  emerge doesn't work because the net connexion
> is down.  Presulably it would be OK if I had a local repository, but iI
> don't.

> Except for lo (which I can wonder about anon) the most striking difference
> is that gentoo uses eth0; whereas Debian uses eth1.

It's better that lo is there, but obviously isn't necessary as Debian doesn't 
have it.

> Now as far as I know, there's only one ethernet interface on this machine.
> But I could be wrong.  I do know that there's just one place to plug the
> cable into the back.

ifconfig -a, will show all recognised interfaces.

> Running ifconfig to find out more, especially to see if the MAC addresses
> are different:

> Now that's a surprise.  Quite sone difference!  Debian gives ma an
> ordinary 48-bit hardware address.  Gentoo gives a 128-bit hardware
> address!  And the bits of the 48-bit address aren't even recognisable
> in the 128-bit address.  Now I understand that hardware addresses have been
> getting longer, but O haven't been adding ethernet chips to this machine
> since I bought it, so they should all be of the same vintage.
>
> What gives?

Gut reaction, firewire.
I've seen exactly the same on my own boxes.
Debian is doing the same too, so I'd just go add a net.eth1 symlink change 
your config and use that instead, just don't remove firewire networking 
support, or you ethernet interface may become eth0 (udev might save you).

> Here's the output from gentoo-s lspci -v:

> 03:00.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Agere Systems FW323 (rev 04) (prog-if 10
> [OHCI]) Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device 5811
> 	Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 19
> 	Memory at ed000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
> 	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2

Bingo, firewire.

-- 
Mike Williams
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Mick]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 841 bytes --]

On Tuesday 17 July 2007 19:44, Mike Williams wrote:

> > What gives?
>
> Gut reaction, firewire.
> I've seen exactly the same on my own boxes.
> Debian is doing the same too, so I'd just go add a net.eth1 symlink change
> your config and use that instead, just don't remove firewire networking
> support, or you ethernet interface may become eth0 (udev might save you).
>
> > Here's the output from gentoo-s lspci -v:
> >
> > 03:00.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Agere Systems FW323 (rev 04) (prog-if 10
> > [OHCI]) Subsystem: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device 5811
> > 	Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 19
> > 	Memory at ed000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
> > 	Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2
>
> Bingo, firewire.

Also check with lshw (if you have a LiveCD)

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:44:32 +0100, Mike Williams wrote:

> 
> Gut reaction, firewire.
> I've seen exactly the same on my own boxes.
> Debian is doing the same too, so I'd just go add a net.eth1 symlink change 
> your config and use that instead, just don't remove firewire networking 
> support, or you ethernet interface may become eth0 (udev might save you).

After my son, Henk Boom, who was an earlier gentoo adopter in my
household, showed me just where the net.eth1 symlink had to go, it all
boots properly.  Thanks.  I had never dreamed that firewire would be
recognised as an ethernet!

- hendrik

-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:33:20 +0000 (UTC), Hendrik Boom wrote:

> After my son, Henk Boom, who was an earlier gentoo adopter in my
> household, showed me just where the net.eth1 symlink had to go, it all
> boots properly.  Thanks.  I had never dreamed that firewire would be
> recognised as an ethernet!

It is if you have CONFIG_IEEE1394_ETH1394 set in your kernel. If you want
your standard ethernet to be eth0, swap over NAME settings in the
definitions in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

TEXAS VIRUS: Makes sure that it's bigger than any other file.

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installation problems

[Mike Williams]

On Wednesday 18 July 2007 12:33:20 Hendrik Boom wrote:
> After my son, Henk Boom, who was an earlier gentoo adopter in my
> household, showed me just where the net.eth1 symlink had to go, it all
> boots properly.  Thanks.  I had never dreamed that firewire would be
> recognised as an ethernet!

Glad to help.
Not sure of the use of firewire ethernet anymore personally, gig ethernet is 
just as easy and available. But hey, doesn't hurt.
For some reason I enabled it on my laptop at some distant point in the past 
and experienced exactly the same as you, never bothered to remove it and 
never used it either.

-- 
Mike Williams
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list