[gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

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Howdy,

I have a couple deer trail cameras.  They use SDHC cards.  I have
several of these.  I was playing with one that hasn't been used in a
while and was going to set it up to use for other things.  I put it in
my card reader and opened it with Dolphin.  I then right clicked on the
directory and chose move to trash.  When it was done, I unmounted it
using Device Notifier.  I unplugged the card reader and plugged it back
in again.  When I mount it with Device Notifier and opened it with
Dolphin, the files were still there.  They didn't delete or move
anywhere.  There was no error either. Also, refreshing the tab in
Dolphin doesn't work either.  I thought maybe it just cached what was
there and wasn't updating so I did a F5 to force it.  Tried it several
times actually.  Also, before I unmount the card, it shows the files are
deleted.  They just reappear after a unmount and remount again.

I thought I'd use a little more brute force.  I started the process over
again the usual way.  I then went to a Konsole which is logged in as
root, I did a rm -rfv for the main directory on the card.  It showed it
deleted all the files.  I then did the sync command, to make sure
everything was done, and told Device Notifier to unmount it.  I
unplugged it and plugged it back up again.  When I mount it and open it
with Dolphin, there the files are.  Even as root and not moving to
trash, the files don't delete. 

Keep in mind, I can write new files to the little cards.  So I'm pretty
sure it is not a write protection problem or a permissions problem. 
It's just a can't delete or move to trash problem. 

Anyone ever ran into something like this?  When rm -rfv doesn't work,
I'm not sure how much more brute force there is short of a hammer. 

Thoughts??

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 12:09:02 -0500, Dale wrote:

> I thought I'd use a little more brute force.  I started the process over
> again the usual way.  I then went to a Konsole which is logged in as
> root, I did a rm -rfv for the main directory on the card.  It showed it
> deleted all the files.  I then did the sync command, to make sure
> everything was done, and told Device Notifier to unmount it.  I
> unplugged it and plugged it back up again.  When I mount it and open it
> with Dolphin, there the files are.  Even as root and not moving to
> trash, the files don't delete. 
> 
> Keep in mind, I can write new files to the little cards.  So I'm pretty
> sure it is not a write protection problem or a permissions problem. 
> It's just a can't delete or move to trash problem. 

It sounds like it may be filesystem corruption. With an SD card I'd
either reformat it, preferably in the device that will be using it, or
replace it, depending on how important it is.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Interchangeable parts aren't.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Wols Lists]

On 20/06/20 23:14, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> It sounds like it may be filesystem corruption. With an SD card I'd
> either reformat it, preferably in the device that will be using it,

If that's possible ... :-)

I now have two devices, my car radio and a tv, both of which require the
vfat filesystem. New cards seem to come with exFAT. And of course
neither the radio nor the tv have the option to format a card ... (and
Windows has deleted the "format as vfat" option). Thank $DEITY for
mkfs.vfat :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Michael]

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On Sunday, 21 June 2020 00:08:55 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> On 20/06/20 23:14, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > It sounds like it may be filesystem corruption. With an SD card I'd
> > either reformat it, preferably in the device that will be using it,
> 
> If that's possible ... :-)
> 
> I now have two devices, my car radio and a tv, both of which require the
> vfat filesystem. New cards seem to come with exFAT. And of course
> neither the radio nor the tv have the option to format a card ... (and
> Windows has deleted the "format as vfat" option). Thank $DEITY for
> mkfs.vfat :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

There may also be a lock switch on the card itself or an SD card adaptor, if 
connected to the PC using an adaptor, although I expect Dale would have 
noticed that feature and unlocked it.  Sometimes the lock switch is faulty and 
will only make contact half way through, switching back to read only at the 
fully unlocked position - they don't make things as they used to anymore.  :(

Let's not forget corroded electrical contacts - I've had that happen with a 
USB stick, which accidentally fell in a cup of coffee.  LOL!  The coffee 
corroded the copper, but the problem only became apparent intermittently a 
week later.  Cleaning the contacts with fine wire wool and blowing away all 
swarf followed by a wipe with methylated spirit allowed me to access my files 
again.

To eliminate PC/adaptor problems, reinsert the card in the camera device it 
came with and delete/format it there.  If it still doesn't work, RMA it under 
warranty, or buy a new card, of a different make.  Then tell us all what make/
model it was, so we can all avoid it!  LOL!

PS. exFAT has made it into the latest Linux kernels.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Wols Lists]

On 21/06/20 00:11, Michael wrote:
> PS. exFAT has made it into the latest Linux kernels.

Great. So linux may be able to read the card just fine, but it's still
useless in the device I bought it for ... :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Michael]

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On Sunday, 21 June 2020 00:26:07 BST Wols Lists wrote:
> On 21/06/20 00:11, Michael wrote:
> > PS. exFAT has made it into the latest Linux kernels.
> 
> Great. So linux may be able to read the card just fine, but it's still
> useless in the device I bought it for ... :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Wol

Ha!  The beauty of MSWindows!  You're right, Win10 will refuse to format a 
partition as FAT32 if it is >=32G, it only offers exFAT on removable devices.  
Less than that size it will offer NTFS, FAT and FAT32 as options.

However, this is only true if you use the GUI.  For those who persist and use 
the CLI, Win10 won't stop you from formating partitions >32G with FAT32.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

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Michael wrote:
> On Sunday, 21 June 2020 00:08:55 BST Wols Lists wrote:
>> On 20/06/20 23:14, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>> It sounds like it may be filesystem corruption. With an SD card I'd
>>> either reformat it, preferably in the device that will be using it,
>> If that's possible ... :-)
>>
>> I now have two devices, my car radio and a tv, both of which require the
>> vfat filesystem. New cards seem to come with exFAT. And of course
>> neither the radio nor the tv have the option to format a card ... (and
>> Windows has deleted the "format as vfat" option). Thank $DEITY for
>> mkfs.vfat :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wol
> There may also be a lock switch on the card itself or an SD card adaptor, if 
> connected to the PC using an adaptor, although I expect Dale would have 
> noticed that feature and unlocked it.  Sometimes the lock switch is faulty and 
> will only make contact half way through, switching back to read only at the 
> fully unlocked position - they don't make things as they used to anymore.  :(
>
> Let's not forget corroded electrical contacts - I've had that happen with a 
> USB stick, which accidentally fell in a cup of coffee.  LOL!  The coffee 
> corroded the copper, but the problem only became apparent intermittently a 
> week later.  Cleaning the contacts with fine wire wool and blowing away all 
> swarf followed by a wipe with methylated spirit allowed me to access my files 
> again.
>
> To eliminate PC/adaptor problems, reinsert the card in the camera device it 
> came with and delete/format it there.  If it still doesn't work, RMA it under 
> warranty, or buy a new card, of a different make.  Then tell us all what make/
> model it was, so we can all avoid it!  LOL!
>
> PS. exFAT has made it into the latest Linux kernels.


I did check the lock switch thing, not that I even would lock it.  I'm
certain it hasn't been locked since the cameras can write to them.

Next time I swap cards, I'll reformat them. Give that a try.  The cards
are Sandisk but I've had them a good while.  At times, I've had over a
1,000 images or over a hundred video files on the cards.  One camera
takes pics while the other takes videos. 

Still weird tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Franz Fellner]

On Sat Jun 20 12:09:02 2020, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> I then right clicked on the
> directory and chose move to trash.

Never tried deleting just single files?
Probably you need to wait longer, those cards are slow.
I personally do not like to use "move to trash" as the copy takes ages.
In dolphin you also have "Delete" now (probably you need to press shift
to turn the "trash" menu item into a "delete")

Formatting usually is the fastest way to get rid of everything on the cards.

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

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Franz Fellner wrote:
> On Sat Jun 20 12:09:02 2020, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I then right clicked on the
>> directory and chose move to trash.
> Never tried deleting just single files?
> Probably you need to wait longer, those cards are slow.
> I personally do not like to use "move to trash" as the copy takes ages.
> In dolphin you also have "Delete" now (probably you need to press shift
> to turn the "trash" menu item into a "delete")
>
> Formatting usually is the fastest way to get rid of everything on the cards.
>
>


The cards I use are class 10, slow but pretty fast for the type of
card.  Generally, I can download several hundred MBs in a minute or
two.  Deleting sometimes over a 1,000 pics one at a time just isn't
feasible.  That could take a long time.  I'm not sure it would give a
different result either.  Doing a rm -rfv has always worked in the
past.  I've never had it fail on a regular hard drive.  I might add,
even tho I use a wildcard, it still shows it is deleting each file
individually. 

I think the thing that makes the most sense so far, bad file system and
it needs to be reformatted.  It's been a while since I've reformatted
them and this type of cards is known to have weird issues.  If it
continues after that, new card it is.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Franz Fellner]

On Sun Jun 21 09:21:36 2020, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> The cards I use are class 10, slow but pretty fast for the type of
> card.  Generally, I can download several hundred MBs in a minute or
> two.  Deleting sometimes over a 1,000 pics one at a time just isn't
> feasible.  That could take a long time.

That wasn't my intention!
I thought you should just select one file (remember its name), delete it,
unmount, remount and see if the file is still there.
So you can be sure that you really have a different issue than just performance.
Trying to delete a folder takes ages and you don't see the file names.

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[John Covici]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:50:46 -0400,
Franz Fellner wrote:
> 
> On Sun Jun 21 09:21:36 2020, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The cards I use are class 10, slow but pretty fast for the type of
> > card.  Generally, I can download several hundred MBs in a minute or
> > two.  Deleting sometimes over a 1,000 pics one at a time just isn't
> > feasible.  That could take a long time.
> 
> That wasn't my intention!
> I thought you should just select one file (remember its name), delete it,
> unmount, remount and see if the file is still there.
> So you can be sure that you really have a different issue than just performance.
> Trying to delete a folder takes ages and you don't see the file names.

Definitely unmount, the sectors sometimes don't write to disk for
quite a while, and your unmount should take a few seconds to more than
a minute and so unmount and wait till it returns, and then remount and
see what happens.

-- 
Your life is like a penny.  You're going to lose it.  The question is:
How do
you spend it?

         John Covici wb2una
         covici@ccs.covici.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

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John Covici wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:50:46 -0400,
> Franz Fellner wrote:
>> On Sun Jun 21 09:21:36 2020, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The cards I use are class 10, slow but pretty fast for the type of
>>> card.  Generally, I can download several hundred MBs in a minute or
>>> two.  Deleting sometimes over a 1,000 pics one at a time just isn't
>>> feasible.  That could take a long time.
>> That wasn't my intention!
>> I thought you should just select one file (remember its name), delete it,
>> unmount, remount and see if the file is still there.
>> So you can be sure that you really have a different issue than just performance.
>> Trying to delete a folder takes ages and you don't see the file names.
> Definitely unmount, the sectors sometimes don't write to disk for
> quite a while, and your unmount should take a few seconds to more than
> a minute and so unmount and wait till it returns, and then remount and
> see what happens.
>


It appears the cards I have is faster or something.  ;-)  Those class 10
cards are the fastest I think.  I got them since it throws video onto
the card.  I got one that should work fine in a video camera, since one
trail camera is essentially that.  I used Device Notifier to unmount. 
It took it a second or so but it said it was safe to remove.  From my
understanding, it syncs the file system before unmounting, right? 
Surely it wouldn't unmount if the files were still being changed, right? 

I may change the cards tomorrow and do some more testing.  I'm curious
as to what is up with them.  I wasn't sure if that is a sign they are
going bad or just some weird quirk. 

I'll try deleting just a couple pics or a single video and see what it
does.  I'm not sure it will matter but it's worth testing to see. I'm
curious if nothing else. ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 12:52:43 +0100, Michael wrote:

> > > PS. exFAT has made it into the latest Linux kernels.  
> > 
> > Great. So linux may be able to read the card just fine, but it's still
> > useless in the device I bought it for ... :-)
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Wol  
> 
> Ha!  The beauty of MSWindows!  You're right, Win10 will refuse to
> format a partition as FAT32 if it is >=32G, it only offers exFAT on
> removable devices. Less than that size it will offer NTFS, FAT and
> FAT32 as options.

The SD standard says >33G should use exFAT, this is why many devices
state they only support cards up to 32G. The really mean they only
support FAT. My Dashcam is like this but it happily works with a 128G
card, once I reformatted it with FAT.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Memory Map - A sheet of paper showing location of computer store.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 12:17:33 -0400, John Covici wrote:

> > > The cards I use are class 10, slow but pretty fast for the type of
> > > card.  Generally, I can download several hundred MBs in a minute or
> > > two.  Deleting sometimes over a 1,000 pics one at a time just isn't
> > > feasible.  That could take a long time.  
> > 
> > That wasn't my intention!
> > I thought you should just select one file (remember its name), delete
> > it, unmount, remount and see if the file is still there.
> > So you can be sure that you really have a different issue than just
> > performance. Trying to delete a folder takes ages and you don't see
> > the file names.  
> 
> Definitely unmount, the sectors sometimes don't write to disk for
> quite a while, and your unmount should take a few seconds to more than
> a minute and so unmount and wait till it returns, and then remount and
> see what happens.

I'd run sync as well, just to be sure, although umount shouldn't return
until everything is flushed to the card.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 001: Windows loaded - System in danger

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Walter Dnes]

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 11:28:17AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote

> The SD standard says >33G should use exFAT, this is why many devices
> state they only support cards up to 32G. The really mean they only
> support FAT. My Dashcam is like this but it happily works with a 128G
> card, once I reformatted it with FAT.

  Warning; that still does not change the fact that each individual file
cannot exceed 4G in size on regular FAT.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 06:56:43 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:

> > The SD standard says >33G should use exFAT, this is why many devices
> > state they only support cards up to 32G. The really mean they only
> > support FAT. My Dashcam is like this but it happily works with a 128G
> > card, once I reformatted it with FAT.  
> 
>   Warning; that still does not change the fact that each individual file
> cannot exceed 4G in size on regular FAT.

That's right, but a device designed to work with only FAT should never
try to save larger files. Any such devices I have used tend to split
videos into chunks of 1GB or smaller.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Confucius say :
He who play in root, eventually kill tree!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

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Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 06:56:43 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
>
>>> The SD standard says >33G should use exFAT, this is why many devices
>>> state they only support cards up to 32G. The really mean they only
>>> support FAT. My Dashcam is like this but it happily works with a 128G
>>> card, once I reformatted it with FAT.  
>>   Warning; that still does not change the fact that each individual file
>> cannot exceed 4G in size on regular FAT.
> That's right, but a device designed to work with only FAT should never
> try to save larger files. Any such devices I have used tend to split
> videos into chunks of 1GB or smaller.
>
>


So if I bought a 64GB card, I forced it to be formatted with FAT on say
my Linux box here, it would work in my trail cameras anyway?  It makes
sense.  It would seem it is more of a file system issue since accessing
a device shouldn't be affected my its capacity, well, maybe some
exceptions.  My trail camera may only support FAT which is only found on
32GB and smaller.  I can get that. 

To be honest, even tho I leave that thing out there sometimes for months
without checking it, and it takes a ton of pics, I don't recall it even
going over a couple GBs or so.  Even the one that takes videos doesn't
store a lot of data.  I don't think I'd buy that expensive a card but
still, interesting that it is a option.  I'm thinking even my Canon
camera can handle this.  That's a lot of pics tho. 

I never thought about this this way. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 08:19:28 -0500, Dale wrote:

> >>> The SD standard says >33G should use exFAT, this is why many devices
> >>> state they only support cards up to 32G. The really mean they only
> >>> support FAT. My Dashcam is like this but it happily works with a
> >>> 128G card, once I reformatted it with FAT.    
> >>   Warning; that still does not change the fact that each individual
> >> file cannot exceed 4G in size on regular FAT.  
> > That's right, but a device designed to work with only FAT should never
> > try to save larger files. Any such devices I have used tend to split
> > videos into chunks of 1GB or smaller.
> >
> >  
> 
> 
> So if I bought a 64GB card, I forced it to be formatted with FAT on say
> my Linux box here, it would work in my trail cameras anyway?  It makes
> sense.  It would seem it is more of a file system issue since accessing
> a device shouldn't be affected my its capacity, well, maybe some
> exceptions.  My trail camera may only support FAT which is only found on
> 32GB and smaller.  I can get that. 

It should work, but don't cry to me if it doesn't ;-)

> To be honest, even tho I leave that thing out there sometimes for months
> without checking it, and it takes a ton of pics, I don't recall it even
> going over a couple GBs or so.  Even the one that takes videos doesn't
> store a lot of data.  I don't think I'd buy that expensive a card but
> still, interesting that it is a option.  I'm thinking even my Canon
> camera can handle this.  That's a lot of pics tho. 

My dashcam really eats up the space. If I forget to turn it off at night,
even a 128G card only holds abut 2 days of video.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 00F: Unexplained error - Please tell us how this happened

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[gentoo-user] Re: Memory cards and deleting files.

[Grant Edwards]

On 2020-06-22, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> I'd run sync as well, just to be sure, although umount shouldn't return
> until everything is flushed to the card.

I suppose it's possible that the data _had_ been flushed to the card,
but was still the card's write buffers and had not been committed to
flash when the card was pulled.  One would hope that SD cards have
sync write commands and those commands would be used by the umount
code...

--
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

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Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 08:19:28 -0500, Dale wrote:
>
>>>>> The SD standard says >33G should use exFAT, this is why many devices
>>>>> state they only support cards up to 32G. The really mean they only
>>>>> support FAT. My Dashcam is like this but it happily works with a
>>>>> 128G card, once I reformatted it with FAT.    
>>>>   Warning; that still does not change the fact that each individual
>>>> file cannot exceed 4G in size on regular FAT.  
>>> That's right, but a device designed to work with only FAT should never
>>> try to save larger files. Any such devices I have used tend to split
>>> videos into chunks of 1GB or smaller.
>>>
>>>  
>>
>> So if I bought a 64GB card, I forced it to be formatted with FAT on say
>> my Linux box here, it would work in my trail cameras anyway?  It makes
>> sense.  It would seem it is more of a file system issue since accessing
>> a device shouldn't be affected my its capacity, well, maybe some
>> exceptions.  My trail camera may only support FAT which is only found on
>> 32GB and smaller.  I can get that. 
> It should work, but don't cry to me if it doesn't ;-)
>
>> To be honest, even tho I leave that thing out there sometimes for months
>> without checking it, and it takes a ton of pics, I don't recall it even
>> going over a couple GBs or so.  Even the one that takes videos doesn't
>> store a lot of data.  I don't think I'd buy that expensive a card but
>> still, interesting that it is a option.  I'm thinking even my Canon
>> camera can handle this.  That's a lot of pics tho. 
> My dashcam really eats up the space. If I forget to turn it off at night,
> even a 128G card only holds abut 2 days of video.
>
>


The pics are usually black and white with IR lighting.  There is
occasional day pics but most of them are squirrels or something.  Deer
at times but not to much.  The pics are fairly small files.  The pics
are usually around 1MG with 1.5MB being about the largest.  There may be
a rare 2MB or so.  Days pics are color but night pics are black and white.

The videos are usually around 12 to 15MBs for night and 50MBs for day
videos which are color.  Videos are about 30 seconds long.  I wish I
could select a minute or more at times.  For what it does, the cameras
work fairly well.  They are two different brands but one takes good
video and one takes good pics. 

I can see why they limited it to 32GBs.  If you do the math, even with
video, that's a lot of files.  Plus, they may have to pay to use some
other file system or something.  I don't know if anyone still owns those
things or not.  If I ever get a large card, I may try it just to see if
it works.  Honestly tho, that's a lot of pics/videos.  I could leave it
out there for a year and likely not fill up a 32GB card.  Still
interesting tho. 

I got the cards a few minutes ago.  Everything is working like it
should.  The cards I pulled today have not been reformatted yet.  I did
reformat the pic trail camera card that I left in the woods tho.  I
can't see the display to well on the video one.  I usually bring it back
to the house and pull out a magnifying glass.  lol  I did my updates and
I suspect it was a bug and the update fixed it.  There was a plasma
update that was done last night which I guess included Device Notifier. 
Still, reformatting the cards isn't a bad idea.  They haven't been
reformatted in at least a year, maybe even much longer than that. 

Time will tell tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[antlists]

On 22/06/2020 11:56, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 11:28:17AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote
>
>> The SD standard says >33G should use exFAT, this is why many devices
>> state they only support cards up to 32G. The really mean they only
>> support FAT. My Dashcam is like this but it happily works with a 128G
>> card, once I reformatted it with FAT.
> Warning; that still does not change the fact that each individual file
> cannot exceed 4G in size on regular FAT.
>
Warning 2: I did exactly that, and it LOOKED like it was working 
happily, until it overflowed some internal limit and my 1G card turned 
into a 128M card or whatever it was. Have you actually TESTED that card 
IN THE DASHCAM and made sure it can actually use that 128G? Or will it 
only be able to use 4G of that card?

Oh - and 32GB cards are physically different from 128GB cards because 
they work to different standards. That's why so many of the old "real 
SD" card devices only ever use up to 2GB. You CAN (or could) get 4GB SD 
cards, but they were rare, so most people couldn't find them. The SD 
standard was replaced by SDHC, which is why your fileformat changes at 
32GB, which is the maximum capacity of an SDHC card. Above 32GB it's 
SDXC, which is another reason why sticking a larger card into a device 
which says "up to 32GB" is a bad idea - it may not be able to handle SDXC.

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[antlists]

On 22/06/2020 14:19, Dale wrote:
> So if I bought a 64GB card, I forced it to be formatted with FAT on 
> say my Linux box here, it would work in my trail cameras anyway?  It 
> makes sense.  It would seem it is more of a file system issue since 
> accessing a device shouldn't be affected my its capacity, well, maybe 
> some exceptions.  My trail camera may only support FAT which is only 
> found on 32GB and smaller.  I can get that. 

Does it say it only supports 32GB cards or smaller? If it does, it 
probably doesn't have an SDXC slot, so you'll have interface issues. My 
TV supports up to 2TB, but only FAT, so I just have to reformat anything 
over 32GB ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

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antlists wrote:
> On 22/06/2020 14:19, Dale wrote:
>> So if I bought a 64GB card, I forced it to be formatted with FAT on
>> say my Linux box here, it would work in my trail cameras anyway?  It
>> makes sense.  It would seem it is more of a file system issue since
>> accessing a device shouldn't be affected my its capacity, well, maybe
>> some exceptions.  My trail camera may only support FAT which is only
>> found on 32GB and smaller.  I can get that. 
>
> Does it say it only supports 32GB cards or smaller? If it does, it
> probably doesn't have an SDXC slot, so you'll have interface issues.
> My TV supports up to 2TB, but only FAT, so I just have to reformat
> anything over 32GB ...
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>
>


I recall reading in the little manual that it supports up to 32GB.  I've
never tried it before so it may be that the camera does but their tech
support doesn't for some reason.  At first, we bought two 32GB cards.  I
would go out and remove the cards, bring them home to download the pics
and then take them back.  After a while, I got tired of the walking.  I
could tell that 32GB was a bit . . . large.  I got 8GB cards to save
walking.  I go out in the woods, swap cards and come back to take pics
off the cards.  Next time, I swap out again.  It saves me one trip most
days.  Of course, I feed the deer to so sometimes I end up with a second
trip.  Usually I put water in the water bucket.  They drink a good bit
after eating salt out of the mineral site.  Not to mention the
occasional observation of the backside of a raccoon getting a drink. 
Usually we see the tails sticking up when the water level is a bit low. 
Sort of funny really.  LOL 

Anyway, the 8GB cards have been plenty large enough so it could be any
number of reasons they say the limit is 32GB.  It could be they know it
will run out of file names.  Most pics are named with four digit
numbers. So, 9,999 files and it either stops taking pics or starts
overwriting the files.  I haven't done the math.

I just thought of something.  The video camera doesn't have a format
function.  I use a old camera that is broken to format it.  It doesn't
take pics anymore but the display works and it formats fine.  Now I can
format them all without having to squint.  ROFL 

I'm still waiting on my glasses.  The lens takes a while.  Special
material and it takes extra steps to get it right.  At $600, they better
make me see much better.  O_O 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

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antlists wrote:
> On 22/06/2020 11:56, Walter Dnes wrote:
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 11:28:17AM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote
>>
>>> The SD standard says >33G should use exFAT, this is why many devices
>>> state they only support cards up to 32G. The really mean they only
>>> support FAT. My Dashcam is like this but it happily works with a 128G
>>> card, once I reformatted it with FAT.
>> Warning; that still does not change the fact that each individual file
>> cannot exceed 4G in size on regular FAT.
>>
> Warning 2: I did exactly that, and it LOOKED like it was working
> happily, until it overflowed some internal limit and my 1G card turned
> into a 128M card or whatever it was. Have you actually TESTED that
> card IN THE DASHCAM and made sure it can actually use that 128G? Or
> will it only be able to use 4G of that card?
>
> Oh - and 32GB cards are physically different from 128GB cards because
> they work to different standards. That's why so many of the old "real
> SD" card devices only ever use up to 2GB. You CAN (or could) get 4GB
> SD cards, but they were rare, so most people couldn't find them. The
> SD standard was replaced by SDHC, which is why your fileformat changes
> at 32GB, which is the maximum capacity of an SDHC card. Above 32GB
> it's SDXC, which is another reason why sticking a larger card into a
> device which says "up to 32GB" is a bad idea - it may not be able to
> handle SDXC.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol

I recall them being called something different.  I'm in no hurry to buy
a card just to test tho.  I'll have to find a good excuse to buy one.  lol 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 19:25:11 +0100, antlists wrote:

> > Warning; that still does not change the fact that each individual file
> > cannot exceed 4G in size on regular FAT.
> >  
> Warning 2: I did exactly that, and it LOOKED like it was working 
> happily, until it overflowed some internal limit and my 1G card turned 
> into a 128M card or whatever it was. Have you actually TESTED that card 
> IN THE DASHCAM and made sure it can actually use that 128G? Or will it 
> only be able to use 4G of that card?

There are a lot of SD cards with fake capacities, they appear to be large
but are actually a smaller card reprogrammed to do so. You only find out
when you go beyond the true capacity. There are tools to check this, such
as sys-block/f3.

Yes, I tested the card in the dashcam, it has been running reliably for
several years, including producing footage that the police used in their
prosecution of a drunk driver. I've also used a microSDXC card in a
camera, with an SD adaptor, with no issues.
 
> Oh - and 32GB cards are physically different from 128GB cards because 
> they work to different standards.

They are, but the differences are minor so don't necessarily cause
compatibility issues. However, it is always worth making sure than the
card and camera are fully compatible before trusting it to anything
important.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Evolution stops when stupidity is no longer fatal!

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[antlists]

On 22/06/2020 19:50, Dale wrote:
> Anyway, the 8GB cards have been plenty large enough so it could be any 
> number of reasons they say the limit is 32GB.  It could be they know it 
> will run out of file names.  Most pics are named with four digit 
> numbers. So, 9,999 files and it either stops taking pics or starts 
> overwriting the files.  I haven't done the math.

The OBVIOUS reason is that the SDHC spec supports a maximum of 32GB. 
Stick a larger card in and you're likely to have problems when the card 
starts filling up.
> 
> I just thought of something.  The video camera doesn't have a format 
> function.  I use a old camera that is broken to format it.  It doesn't 
> take pics anymore but the display works and it formats fine.  Now I can 
> format them all without having to squint.  ROFL

Or use mkfs.vfat to reformat it under linux :-)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[antlists]

On 22/06/2020 20:22, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> Warning 2: I did exactly that, and it LOOKED like it was working
>> happily, until it overflowed some internal limit and my 1G card turned
>> into a 128M card or whatever it was. Have you actually TESTED that card
>> IN THE DASHCAM and made sure it can actually use that 128G? Or will it
>> only be able to use 4G of that card?

> There are a lot of SD cards with fake capacities, they appear to be large
> but are actually a smaller card reprogrammed to do so. You only find out
> when you go beyond the true capacity. There are tools to check this, such
> as sys-block/f3.

Did you look at the card sizes I quoted? :-) I think the reason I tried 
a 1GB card was because the camera said it took a max of 512MB. It didn't 
work ... (Oh and the card was good. It was small by the standards of the 
day.)

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Dale]

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antlists wrote:
> On 22/06/2020 19:50, Dale wrote:
>> Anyway, the 8GB cards have been plenty large enough so it could be
>> any number of reasons they say the limit is 32GB.  It could be they
>> know it will run out of file names.  Most pics are named with four
>> digit numbers. So, 9,999 files and it either stops taking pics or
>> starts overwriting the files.  I haven't done the math.
>
> The OBVIOUS reason is that the SDHC spec supports a maximum of 32GB.
> Stick a larger card in and you're likely to have problems when the
> card starts filling up.
>>
>> I just thought of something.  The video camera doesn't have a format
>> function.  I use a old camera that is broken to format it.  It
>> doesn't take pics anymore but the display works and it formats fine. 
>> Now I can format them all without having to squint.  ROFL
>
> Or use mkfs.vfat to reformat it under linux :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>

I did that once and for some reason, it didn't write any files.  I know
there was deer there but no pics.  I know they were there because the
food was gone, even the crumbs.  After that, I use a trail camera to
format with.  I think what it is, it not only formats but also creates
the directories it needs as well.  If they don't exist, then it fails to
write the files.  One would think it would create it when it took the
first pic or video but we know some folks don't do things in a good
way.  ;-)

I suspect you could be right about it messing up when it fills up too. 
I think I read where someone else mentioned that.  May have been you or
Neil.  Anyway, I'm not buying a card just to test it tho.  They to
pricey and I'm not that curious. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 20:40:49 +0100, antlists wrote:

> >> Warning 2: I did exactly that, and it LOOKED like it was working
> >> happily, until it overflowed some internal limit and my 1G card
> >> turned into a 128M card or whatever it was. Have you actually TESTED
> >> that card IN THE DASHCAM and made sure it can actually use that
> >> 128G? Or will it only be able to use 4G of that card?  
> 
> > There are a lot of SD cards with fake capacities, they appear to be
> > large but are actually a smaller card reprogrammed to do so. You only
> > find out when you go beyond the true capacity. There are tools to
> > check this, such as sys-block/f3.  
> 
> Did you look at the card sizes I quoted? :-) I think the reason I tried 
> a 1GB card was because the camera said it took a max of 512MB. It
> didn't work ... (Oh and the card was good. It was small by the
> standards of the day.)

So that was SDHC vs SD? Or was it even that? 2GB was the original SD
limit IIRC correctly, so you weren't trying to use the wrong spec. Was it
just a case of a faulty card, either through accident or design.

However, those cards were more expensive than current huge cards, so the
temptation to sell fakes would have been even greater. Many years ago I
got burned like that with a large (for the time) capacity USB stick
bought on Ebay.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Frog philosophy: Time's fun when you're having flies.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Memory cards and deleting files.

[antlists]

On 22/06/2020 21:42, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 20:40:49 +0100, antlists wrote:
> 
>>>> Warning 2: I did exactly that, and it LOOKED like it was working
>>>> happily, until it overflowed some internal limit and my 1G card
>>>> turned into a 128M card or whatever it was. Have you actually TESTED
>>>> that card IN THE DASHCAM and made sure it can actually use that
>>>> 128G? Or will it only be able to use 4G of that card?
>>
>>> There are a lot of SD cards with fake capacities, they appear to be
>>> large but are actually a smaller card reprogrammed to do so. You only
>>> find out when you go beyond the true capacity. There are tools to
>>> check this, such as sys-block/f3.
>>
>> Did you look at the card sizes I quoted? :-) I think the reason I tried
>> a 1GB card was because the camera said it took a max of 512MB. It
>> didn't work ... (Oh and the card was good. It was small by the
>> standards of the day.)
> 
> So that was SDHC vs SD? Or was it even that? 2GB was the original SD
> limit IIRC correctly,

You don't iirc correctly :-) but it was the limit for cards that were 
manufactured, for the most part. By the time 4GB cards became common, 
the SDHC spec was out, and most (all?) 4GB cards were SDHC. Right pain 
if your device had an SD reader, because they couldn't read SDHC cards 
:-( You could stick an old SD card in a new SDHC reader, but not the 
other way round.

That's why nearly all cards nowadays are 32GB min - that's the smallest 
SDXC size.

> so you weren't trying to use the wrong spec. Was it
> just a case of a faulty card, either through accident or design.

It wasn't - I can't remember what it was, but it was some Olympus format 
that - iirc - only fitted Olympus cameras. And it was something along 
the lines of the smallest cards available were larger than the max 
capacity of the camera I wanted it for (that camera might actually still 
be in use ... :-)
> 
> However, those cards were more expensive than current huge cards, so the
> temptation to sell fakes would have been even greater. Many years ago I
> got burned like that with a large (for the time) capacity USB stick
> bought on Ebay.
> 
Cheers,
Wol