[gentoo-user] Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[gentoo-user] Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?

Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:

   default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd

The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for 
gnome. But I need both now :-/

Re: [gentoo-user] Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Peter Humphrey]

On Wednesday, 24 January 2018 23:16:07 GMT Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
> 
> Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
> 
>    default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
> 
> The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for
> gnome. But I need both now :-/

Choose the desktop profile?

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[R0b0t1]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 5:16 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
>
> Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
>
>   default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
>
> The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for gnome.
> But I need both now :-/
>

Pick the desktop profile with no DE. Install kde-plasma/plasma-meta
and gnome-base/gnome. There should be a drop down in your display
manager that will allow you to select which DE to launch. If your
desktop manager is associated with a DE this may be harder to find. I
suggest SDDM.

Beware, sir. The Gnome foot is the left, or sinister, foot.

Cheers,
     R0b0t1

Re: [gentoo-user] Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 01:16:07 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
> 
> Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
> 
>    default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
> 
> The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for 
> gnome. But I need both now :-/

The differences between the profiles are mainly the USE flags set. As
your system is already built with the plasma profiles, I'd add gnome to
your USE flags and emerge gnome-base/gnome. Portage will shout at you if
you need to enable any other USE flags.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

When you finally buy enough memory, you will not have enough disk space.
 -- Murphy's Computer Laws n\xB03

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[gentoo-user] Re: Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 25/01/18 02:28, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 01:16:07 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> 
>> One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
>>
>> Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
>>
>>     default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
>>
>> The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for
>> gnome. But I need both now :-/
> 
> The differences between the profiles are mainly the USE flags set. As
> your system is already built with the plasma profiles, I'd add gnome to
> your USE flags and emerge gnome-base/gnome. Portage will shout at you if
> you need to enable any other USE flags.

Don't know. There's use flags that seem to be set because it's 
recommended to set them, not because they're needed.

It seems to me that I have to choose either-or here in order to have a 
well working desktop. Otherwise, if something doesn't seem work right, 
I'll never know whether it's because of the profile or because of 
something else.

I suppose I have to switch to the gnome profile and then see if KDE is 
still working as before. But it seems I'll have to manually replicate 
whatever the plasma profile is setting by hand.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Dale]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 25/01/18 02:28, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 01:16:07 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>>> One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
>>>
>>> Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
>>>
>>>     default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
>>>
>>> The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for
>>> gnome. But I need both now :-/
>>
>> The differences between the profiles are mainly the USE flags set. As
>> your system is already built with the plasma profiles, I'd add gnome to
>> your USE flags and emerge gnome-base/gnome. Portage will shout at you if
>> you need to enable any other USE flags.
>
> Don't know. There's use flags that seem to be set because it's
> recommended to set them, not because they're needed.
>
> It seems to me that I have to choose either-or here in order to have a
> well working desktop. Otherwise, if something doesn't seem work right,
> I'll never know whether it's because of the profile or because of
> something else.
>
> I suppose I have to switch to the gnome profile and then see if KDE is
> still working as before. But it seems I'll have to manually replicate
> whatever the plasma profile is setting by hand.
>
>
>


This is what I would do.  I would make sure emerge -uDNp world comes
back clean, no remerges or updates.  Change profile to generic desktop. 
Do a emerge -DNp world and look at what changes, especially USE flags. 
Take those changes and set them in make.conf or package.use if you
prefer.  Since both KDE and Gnome has their own desktop profile, using
the generic profile I think would be the best bet.  You just may have to
set some things in make.conf/package.use to add KDE and Gnome settings
to have both installed at the same time. 

That's my two cents. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[R0b0t1]

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 8:34 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 25/01/18 02:28, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 01:16:07 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>
>>>> One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
>>>>
>>>> Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
>>>>
>>>>     default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
>>>>
>>>> The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for
>>>> gnome. But I need both now :-/
>>>
>>> The differences between the profiles are mainly the USE flags set. As
>>> your system is already built with the plasma profiles, I'd add gnome to
>>> your USE flags and emerge gnome-base/gnome. Portage will shout at you if
>>> you need to enable any other USE flags.
>>
>> Don't know. There's use flags that seem to be set because it's
>> recommended to set them, not because they're needed.
>>
>> It seems to me that I have to choose either-or here in order to have a
>> well working desktop. Otherwise, if something doesn't seem work right,
>> I'll never know whether it's because of the profile or because of
>> something else.
>>
>> I suppose I have to switch to the gnome profile and then see if KDE is
>> still working as before. But it seems I'll have to manually replicate
>> whatever the plasma profile is setting by hand.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> This is what I would do.  I would make sure emerge -uDNp world comes
> back clean, no remerges or updates.  Change profile to generic desktop.
> Do a emerge -DNp world and look at what changes, especially USE flags.
> Take those changes and set them in make.conf or package.use if you
> prefer.  Since both KDE and Gnome has their own desktop profile, using
> the generic profile I think would be the best bet.  You just may have to
> set some things in make.conf/package.use to add KDE and Gnome settings
> to have both installed at the same time.
>

Yes, this works and I've done it, which is why I recommended it.

Cheers,
     R0b0t1

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Dale]

R0b0t1 wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 8:34 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>> On 25/01/18 02:28, Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 01:16:07 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
>>>>>
>>>>>     default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
>>>>>
>>>>> The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for
>>>>> gnome. But I need both now :-/
>>>> The differences between the profiles are mainly the USE flags set. As
>>>> your system is already built with the plasma profiles, I'd add gnome to
>>>> your USE flags and emerge gnome-base/gnome. Portage will shout at you if
>>>> you need to enable any other USE flags.
>>> Don't know. There's use flags that seem to be set because it's
>>> recommended to set them, not because they're needed.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that I have to choose either-or here in order to have a
>>> well working desktop. Otherwise, if something doesn't seem work right,
>>> I'll never know whether it's because of the profile or because of
>>> something else.
>>>
>>> I suppose I have to switch to the gnome profile and then see if KDE is
>>> still working as before. But it seems I'll have to manually replicate
>>> whatever the plasma profile is setting by hand.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> This is what I would do.  I would make sure emerge -uDNp world comes
>> back clean, no remerges or updates.  Change profile to generic desktop.
>> Do a emerge -DNp world and look at what changes, especially USE flags.
>> Take those changes and set them in make.conf or package.use if you
>> prefer.  Since both KDE and Gnome has their own desktop profile, using
>> the generic profile I think would be the best bet.  You just may have to
>> set some things in make.conf/package.use to add KDE and Gnome settings
>> to have both installed at the same time.
>>
> Yes, this works and I've done it, which is why I recommended it.
>
> Cheers,
>      R0b0t1
>
>


Yea, I just added the steps to it and some reasoning for each step,
mostly.  Having both should be doable for sure.  One just has to make
sure the USE flags and such are right. 

Of course, one has to watch USE flag changes even when doing regular
updates but I went over mine with a fine tooth comb during the recent
profile update as well.  One has to look for those yellow characters
when doing updates, at any time but some are more important than
others.  Sometimes one USE flag change can make things either not work
right or not work at all.  Of course, it can add some nifty feature
too.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 25/01/18 04:34, Dale wrote:
> This is what I would do.  I would make sure emerge -uDNp world comes
> back clean, no remerges or updates.  Change profile to generic desktop.

There's no "desktop/systemd" profile. I'm on systemd. If I switch to the 
"systemd" profile, then I lose what's in the "desktop" profile.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Dale]

Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 25/01/18 04:34, Dale wrote:
>> This is what I would do.  I would make sure emerge -uDNp world comes
>> back clean, no remerges or updates.  Change profile to generic desktop.
>
> There's no "desktop/systemd" profile. I'm on systemd. If I switch to
> the "systemd" profile, then I lose what's in the "desktop" profile.
>
>
>

When you run emerge -DNp world, any systemd changes should show up and
then you can add them to either make.conf or package.use.  I wouldn't be
surprised if the biggest change is the USE flag systemd itself. 

I guess you could pick whichever is going to be used most, KDE or Gnome,
and then add the other variables in as needed.  Either way, you are
going to have to adjust USE flags and such. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 04:23:59 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> > The differences between the profiles are mainly the USE flags set. As
> > your system is already built with the plasma profiles, I'd add gnome
> > to your USE flags and emerge gnome-base/gnome. Portage will shout at
> > you if you need to enable any other USE flags.  
> 
> Don't know. There's use flags that seem to be set because it's 
> recommended to set them, not because they're needed.
> 
> It seems to me that I have to choose either-or here in order to have a 
> well working desktop. Otherwise, if something doesn't seem work right, 
> I'll never know whether it's because of the profile or because of 
> something else.
> 
> I suppose I have to switch to the gnome profile and then see if KDE is 
> still working as before. But it seems I'll have to manually replicate 
> whatever the plasma profile is setting by hand.

Just compare the USE flags defaults for the two desktops.

% cat /var/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/gnome/make.defaults
# Copyright 1999-2015 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2

USE="colord eds evo gnome gnome-keyring gnome-online-accounts gstreamer
introspection libsecret nautilus pulseaudio tracker"

% cat /var/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/plasma/make.defaults
# Copyright 1999-2018 Gentoo Foundation
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2

USE="activities consolekit declarative dri kde kipi kwallet phonon plasma
policykit qml semantic-desktop widgets xcomposite"

As long as you have all of these set you should be OK, whichever profile
you start with. After all, a profile is only a convenient starting point.

You could even create your own profile for both desktops, which could be
useful if you want to replicate the setup on more than one computer.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Synonym: a word you use when you can't spell the other one.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Mart Raudsepp]

On Thu, 2018-01-25 at 01:16 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
> 
> Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
> 
>    default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
> 
> The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for 
> gnome. But I need both now :-/

They just provide ease of installation by enabling some USE flags
globally or per-package for you, to avoid having to add them manually
on a fresh install or so.

You can create a local mix-in by having /etc/portage/make.profile as a
directory with an eapi and parent file, but that has some caveats, so
given that I leave the details to find out elsewhere when desired.
Or you can just use one and add the stuff for the other manually,
verbatim or as-needed.
What they do can be seen in
profiles/targets/desktop/gnome
profiles/targets/desktop/plasma
subdirectories of your PORTDIR (probably /usr/portage/)

The global USE flags each adds are in make.defaults file and the per-
package USE flag tweaks are in package.use files.

So you could for example keep using the systemd plasma profile, add the
global USE flags from
/usr/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/gnome/make.defaults to your
make.conf and symlink
/usr/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/gnome/package.use to a gnome.use
file under /etc/portage/package.use/ directory or so and voilà, you got
effectively both.

Re: [gentoo-user] Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Mart Raudsepp]

On Thu, 2018-01-25 at 18:48 +0200, Mart Raudsepp wrote:
> On Thu, 2018-01-25 at 01:16 +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
> > 
> > Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
> > 
> >    default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
> > 
> > The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for 
> > gnome. But I need both now :-/
> 
> They just provide ease of installation by enabling some USE flags
> globally or per-package for you, to avoid having to add them manually
> on a fresh install or so.
> 
> You can create a local mix-in by having /etc/portage/make.profile as
> a
> directory with an eapi and parent file, but that has some caveats, so
> given that I leave the details to find out elsewhere when desired.
> Or you can just use one and add the stuff for the other manually,
> verbatim or as-needed.
> What they do can be seen in
> profiles/targets/desktop/gnome
> profiles/targets/desktop/plasma
> subdirectories of your PORTDIR (probably /usr/portage/)
> 
> The global USE flags each adds are in make.defaults file and the per-
> package USE flag tweaks are in package.use files.
> 
> So you could for example keep using the systemd plasma profile, add
> the
> global USE flags from
> /usr/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/gnome/make.defaults to your
> make.conf and symlink
> /usr/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/gnome/package.use to a
> gnome.use
> file under /etc/portage/package.use/ directory or so and voilà, you
> got
> effectively both.

That said, the global USE flag manual copy to make.conf might get
outdated; e.g. we plan to add USE=wayland as global default to gnome
profile at some point soon(tm). Though make.defaults could be symlinked
as well, I think to /etc/portage/profile/make.defaults
Though these changes are rare, and it's a convenience anyways, e.g. you
might have decided to globally enable wayland earlier already; or once
the change is made you might counter it with a global disable in
make.conf anyways.

Re: [gentoo-user] Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 18:52:34 +0200, Mart Raudsepp wrote:

> That said, the global USE flag manual copy to make.conf might get
> outdated; e.g. we plan to add USE=wayland as global default to gnome
> profile at some point soon(tm). 

Could you source it from make.conf rather than copying the contents? That
way you'll keep up with the profile changes.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Q: What's the proper plural of a 'Net-connected Windows machine?
A: A Botnet

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Re: [gentoo-user] Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Mart Raudsepp]

On Thu, 2018-01-25 at 19:24 +0000, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 18:52:34 +0200, Mart Raudsepp wrote:
> 
> > That said, the global USE flag manual copy to make.conf might get
> > outdated; e.g. we plan to add USE=wayland as global default to
> > gnome
> > profile at some point soon(tm). 
> 
> Could you source it from make.conf rather than copying the contents?
> That
> way you'll keep up with the profile changes.

Not sure, probably not a good idea, but the next sentence that you cut
from the reply gave an (untested) option right there in that e-mail...

[gentoo-user] Re: Using both Gnome and KDE Plasma?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 25/01/18 01:16, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> One user wants Gnome, the other wants Plasma. Is this doable?
> 
> Currently, Plasma is installed, and the profile is:
> 
>    default/linux/amd64/17.0/desktop/plasma/systemd
> 
> The profiles seem to be either-or. There's one for plasma, one for 
> gnome. But I need both now :-/

Thanks everyone for the replies. It seems that for this one, the easy 
solution happens to be the same as the safe solution:

   mkdir /etc/portage/profile
   cd /etc/portage/profile
   ln -s PORTDIR/profiles/targets/desktop/gnome/make.defaults .
   ln -s PORTDIR/profiles/targets/desktop/gnome/package.use .

   # disable Gnome USE flags I don't want, like "online-accounts" etc.

   emerge -auDN --with-bdeps=y @world
   emerge -a gnome

Still building webkit-gtk... But there were no conflicts.