[gentoo-user] Systemd

[gentoo-user] Systemd

[siefke_listen]

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Hello, 

I have a short question to systemd. I would like to ask your experience 
in the changeover. Was it easy? Were there problems?
Change or reinstall? What mean the profis here?

Thank you for help and have nice weekend.

Silvio 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd

[Neil Bothwick]

It's pretty straightforward, just follow the wiki. The profile takes care of setting the appropriate USE flags. One thing to watch out for is that systemd will not pick up your openrc startup services so save the output from rc-update - s then enable the services after changeover . 

On 4 November 2017 16:15:39 GMT, "siefke_listen@web.de" <siefke_listen@web.de> wrote:
>Hello, 
>
>I have a short question to systemd. I would like to ask your experience
>
>in the changeover. Was it easy? Were there problems?
>Change or reinstall? What mean the profis here?
>
>Thank you for help and have nice weekend.
>
>Silvio 

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Systemd

[siefke_listen]

On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 16:58:16 +0000
Neil Bothwick <neil@stfw.net> wrote:

> It's pretty straightforward, just follow the wiki. The profile takes care of setting the appropriate USE flags. One thing to watch out for is that systemd will not pick up your openrc startup services so save the output from rc-update - s then enable the services after changeover . 

That sounds good then I will do it. Thank you. 

Silvio

[gentoo-user] Re: Systemd

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 04/11/17 18:15, siefke_listen@web.de wrote:
> I have a short question to systemd. I would like to ask your experience
> in the changeover. Was it easy? Were there problems?
> Change or reinstall? What mean the profis here?

I did both. Changed one system to systemd, re-installed one from scratch 
with systemd.

Both worked. The only problem I have with systemd is that it's unable to 
reliably restore the ALSA mixer volumes/settings on startup. It fails 
50% of the time. Which is very annoying, but not the end of the world.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Systemd

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 04/11/17 18:15, siefke_listen@web.de wrote:
>>
>> I have a short question to systemd. I would like to ask your experience
>> in the changeover. Was it easy? Were there problems?
>> Change or reinstall? What mean the profis here?
>
>
> I did both. Changed one system to systemd, re-installed one from scratch
> with systemd.
>
> Both worked. The only problem I have with systemd is that it's unable to
> reliably restore the ALSA mixer volumes/settings on startup. It fails 50% of
> the time. Which is very annoying, but not the end of the world.
>

Out of curiosity - are you using alsa-state or alsa-restore?
Apparently alsa provides two different ways of preserving state.  You
might consider switching them (which is triggered by the existence of
/etc/alsa/state-daemon.conf - but it might have some other
requirements which I didn't bother to check on).

I've seen similar issues with iptables-restore.  To be fair those are
rare and I've also seen issues with that under openrc.

With any save/restore tool like these I always keep a copy of the
state somewhere where it doesn't get overwritten at shutdown if I have
a complex configuration.  If you get one of those situations where
something isn't detected by the kernel/udev/etc and then your state
gets blown away it is really nice to be able to run iptables-restore <
backupfile.

I believe the way alsa-restore operates is frowned upon in Gentoo
systemd circles, though to be honest I'm not sure what the specific
concern is.  The oneshot/RemainAfterExit approach seems
straightforward enough, and it is my guess that it is the upstream way
of doing things...

--
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Systemd

[Mick]

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On Saturday, 4 November 2017 19:23:40 GMT Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 04/11/17 18:15, siefke_listen@web.de wrote:
> >> I have a short question to systemd. I would like to ask your experience
> >> in the changeover. Was it easy? Were there problems?
> >> Change or reinstall? What mean the profis here?
> > 
> > I did both. Changed one system to systemd, re-installed one from scratch
> > with systemd.
> > 
> > Both worked. The only problem I have with systemd is that it's unable to
> > reliably restore the ALSA mixer volumes/settings on startup. It fails 50%
> > of the time. Which is very annoying, but not the end of the world.
> 
> Out of curiosity - are you using alsa-state or alsa-restore?
> Apparently alsa provides two different ways of preserving state.  You
> might consider switching them (which is triggered by the existence of
> /etc/alsa/state-daemon.conf - but it might have some other
> requirements which I didn't bother to check on).

I am using alsasound as a boot service, but in openrc - see below.


> I've seen similar issues with iptables-restore.  To be fair those are
> rare and I've also seen issues with that under openrc.

I have the same issue on one of my Gentoo systems, but I use openrc.  It seems 
to me this is occurring some times only, because the system is trying to read 
/usr when it has not yet been fully mounted, but I'm not sure.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: Systemd

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 04/11/17 21:23, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [...] The only problem I have with systemd is that it's unable to
>> reliably restore the ALSA mixer volumes/settings on startup. It fails 50% of
>> the time. Which is very annoying, but not the end of the world.
> 
> Out of curiosity - are you using alsa-state or alsa-restore?
> Apparently alsa provides two different ways of preserving state.  You
> might consider switching them (which is triggered by the existence of
> /etc/alsa/state-daemon.conf - but it might have some other
> requirements which I didn't bother to check on).

alsa-restore. It claims to do exactly what I want, run:

   /usr/sbin/alsactl restore

at startup.


> With any save/restore tool like these I always keep a copy of the
> state somewhere where it doesn't get overwritten at shutdown if I have
> a complex configuration.
Well, the thing is that the state is not getting overwritten. When 
during boot systemd fails to restore the volumes, the state is still 
fine and I can manually run:

   /usr/sbin/alsactl restore

and restore the volumes. This sounds like some sort of race condition 
where something else is calling "alsactl init", so sometimes "restore" 
happens after "init", which results in my volumes getting restores, and 
sometimes "init" happens after "restore", which gives me default volume 
levels.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Systemd

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

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On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 04/11/17 18:15, siefke_listen@web.de wrote:
>>
>> I have a short question to systemd. I would like to ask your experience
>> in the changeover. Was it easy? Were there problems?
>> Change or reinstall? What mean the profis here?
>
>
> I did both. Changed one system to systemd, re-installed one from scratch
with systemd.
>
> Both worked. The only problem I have with systemd is that it's unable to
reliably restore the ALSA mixer volumes/settings on startup. It fails 50%
of the time. Which is very annoying, but not the end of the world.

Do you have PulseAudio installed? What's the output of 'systemctl status
alsa-restore.service'? Do you have /var/lib under a "special" (RAID, LUKS,
whatever) partition?

Regards.
--
Dr. Canek Peláez Valdés
Profesor de Carrera Asociado C
Departamento de Matemáticas
Facultad de Ciencias
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

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[gentoo-user] Re: Systemd

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 05/11/17 00:02, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 12:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@gmail.com 
>  >
>  > The only problem I have with systemd is that it's unable 
> to reliably restore the ALSA mixer volumes/settings on startup. It fails 
> 50% of the time. Which is very annoying, but not the end of the world.
> 
> Do you have PulseAudio installed? What's the output of 'systemctl status 
> alsa-restore.service'? Do you have /var/lib under a "special" (RAID, 
> LUKS, whatever) partition?

Yes, I'm using PulseAudio.

The status output is:

$ systemctl status alsa-restore.service
● alsa-restore.service - Save/Restore Sound Card State
    Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/alsa-restore.service; static; 
vendor preset: disabled)
    Active: active (exited) since Wed 2017-11-08 23:26:55 EET; 14min ago
   Process: 221 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/alsactl restore (code=exited, 
status=0/SUCCESS)
  Main PID: 221 (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
    CGroup: /system.slice/alsa-restore.service

Nov 08 23:26:54 gentoopc systemd[1]: Starting Save/Restore Sound Card 
State...
Nov 08 23:26:55 gentoopc systemd[1]: Started Save/Restore Sound Card State.


No special mounts. Everything is a single partition.

[gentoo-user] systemd

[Stefan G. Weichinger]

Ok then, separate thread ;-)

I just watched this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyMLi8QF6sw

while I continued testing systemd in my VM.

The VM runs ~amd64, so far only a few services started (I still get my
head around how to enable/disable specific services/targets), and it
boots really fast.

I am not the ricer-kind-of-gentoo-users, but it impresses me anyway.

And I clearly see the benefits of socket-based-activation,
cgroup-control and other stuff systemd brings.

AFAI see the wiki mentioned is a starting point only.
It provides the first steps, but not much more, at least to me, right now.

-

There is a layman-overlay "systemd" which brings units (service-files)
to your system. AFAI understand it is still up to the user to
enable/link these files into their runlevel?

If it is that way it feels like a bit of trial-and-error to me to get my
systemd-setup doing the same things my current openrc-system does.

Especially for not-so-trivial stuff like the network settings for KVM
(bridging, TUN/TAP ...)

My approach would be to "rc-config show", take that list and try to
enable the according services within systemd.

Maybe I am completely wrong, maybe not.

I'd be happy to discuss these things with you gentoo-users.

Thanks, greets, Stefan

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd

[Stroller]

On 23 August 2011, at 07:27, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
> ...
>> * found this blog-entry against systemd:
>> 
>> http://monolight.cc/2011/05/the-systemd-fallacy/
>> 
>> I agree, it might be more useful on desktops ... so far I am still
>> exploring and learning to get to the point to make a decision where and
>> if to use.
> 
> I think it is more useful on desktops and laptops, which get rebooted 
> regularly. On a server that tends to run for months without a reboot, a fast 
> init-system is important.
> 
> And I don't really see the point of D-BUS on a server either. All the services 
> that need to talk to each other already have working communication paths.

Reading that blog entry I found discouraging the idea that dbus might be required on my servers in the future, if systemd becomes popular with distros.

Stroller.

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tue 23 August 2011 18:17:17 Stroller did opine thusly:
> On 23 August 2011, at 07:27, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
> > ...
> > 
> >> * found this blog-entry against systemd:
> >> 
> >> http://monolight.cc/2011/05/the-systemd-fallacy/
> >> 
> >> I agree, it might be more useful on desktops ... so far I am
> >> still exploring and learning to get to the point to make a
> >> decision where and if to use.
> > 
> > I think it is more useful on desktops and laptops, which get
> > rebooted regularly. On a server that tends to run for months
> > without a reboot, a fast init-system is important.
> > 
> > And I don't really see the point of D-BUS on a server either.
> > All the services that need to talk to each other already have
> > working communication paths.
> Reading that blog entry I found discouraging the idea that dbus
> might be required on my servers in the future, if systemd becomes
> popular with distros.

What's your objection to dbus? It gives you a standard message bus, is 
small, light, consumes minimal resources and provides a nice standard 
way to do IPC. Probably easier than reinventing the wheel with named 
pipes and other bits over and over.

Now if it had similarities to say hal, I would instantly understand. 
But dbus is good and useful in all the ways that hal isn't.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd

[Alex Schuster]

Alan McKinnon writes:

> On Tue 23 August 2011 18:17:17 Stroller did opine thusly:
> > On 23 August 2011, at 07:27, Joost Roeleveld wrote:
[...]
> > > And I don't really see the point of D-BUS on a server either.
> > > All the services that need to talk to each other already have
> > > working communication paths.
> > 
> > Reading that blog entry I found discouraging the idea that dbus
> > might be required on my servers in the future, if systemd becomes
> > popular with distros.
> 
> What's your objection to dbus? It gives you a standard message bus, is
> small, light, consumes minimal resources and provides a nice standard
> way to do IPC. Probably easier than reinventing the wheel with named
> pipes and other bits over and over.

Except for me. dbus-daemon often uses 10-20% of my CPU according to top. And 
this morning, it was using about 750M of memory. Which is less than kwin's 
and Kontact's usage, but still.
But I think the problem is on my side, I run KDE4 with only 8G of memory, no 
wonder I need 1.7G of swap right now.
</rant>

	Wonko

[gentoo-user] Re: systemd

[walt]

On 08/30/2011 04:56 AM, Alex Schuster wrote:
> Alan McKinnon writes:

> dbus-daemon often uses 10-20% of my CPU according to top.

Have you tried using dbus-monitor?  It may tell you if some app is
being inappropriate.

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tue 23 August 2011 15:06:25 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine thusly:
> > Now if it had similarities to say hal, I would instantly
> > understand. But dbus is good and useful in all the ways that
> > hal isn't.
> Wasn't. HAL is dead. From
> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal

Sadly, HAL is not yet dead. It lives still.

It lives on the production database server I just happen to be 
rebooting as I type this (another story for another time) and will 
continue to live here for a very very long time indeed.

Dale can confirm this. Dale will swear in a court of law with hand on 
bible than hal lives on in zombie form, infesting all the matter of 
his house and computers, infecting them with their undead zombieness.

Ye gods, it's been a long hard day....



-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue 23 August 2011 15:06:25 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine thusly:
>> > Now if it had similarities to say hal, I would instantly
>> > understand. But dbus is good and useful in all the ways that
>> > hal isn't.
>> Wasn't. HAL is dead. From
>> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal
>
> Sadly, HAL is not yet dead. It lives still.
>
> It lives on the production database server I just happen to be
> rebooting as I type this (another story for another time) and will
> continue to live here for a very very long time indeed.
>
> Dale can confirm this. Dale will swear in a court of law with hand on
> bible than hal lives on in zombie form, infesting all the matter of
> his house and computers, infecting them with their undead zombieness.
>
> Ye gods, it's been a long hard day....

I remember getting rid of HAL in one weekend, from all my computers.
It was a long weekend, but it was not as bad as getting rid of Qt from
all the computers in my office some years ago.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] systemd

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tue 23 August 2011 15:50:24 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine thusly:
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Alan McKinnon 
<alan.mckinnon@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Tue 23 August 2011 15:06:25 Canek Peláez Valdés did opine 
thusly:
> >> > Now if it had similarities to say hal, I would instantly
> >> > understand. But dbus is good and useful in all the ways
> >> > that
> >> > hal isn't.
> >> 
> >> Wasn't. HAL is dead. From
> >> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/hal
> > 
> > Sadly, HAL is not yet dead. It lives still.
> > 
> > It lives on the production database server I just happen to be
> > rebooting as I type this (another story for another time) and
> > will continue to live here for a very very long time indeed.
> > 
> > Dale can confirm this. Dale will swear in a court of law with
> > hand on bible than hal lives on in zombie form, infesting all
> > the matter of his house and computers, infecting them with
> > their undead zombieness.
> > 
> > Ye gods, it's been a long hard day....
> 
> I remember getting rid of HAL in one weekend, from all my computers.
> It was a long weekend, but it was not as bad as getting rid of Qt
> from all the computers in my office some years ago.

Come to my work place, I have the perfect task for you:

to excise perl-5.8.0 from all the many machines it's on, plus the 
atrocious in-house coding using it that no-one left understands, and 
all running on hardware that no-one can replace.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: systemd

[walt]

On 08/23/2011 01:19 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> all running on hardware that no-one can replace.

Okay, I give.  Why not?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wed 24 August 2011 14:19:56 walt did opine thusly:
> On 08/23/2011 01:19 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > all running on hardware that no-one can replace.
> 
> Okay, I give.  Why not?

Dell 23xx and 24xx generation hardware


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com