[gentoo-user] kde4 upgrading

[gentoo-user] kde4 upgrading

[James]

Hello,

I have several workstations on kde4, mostly 4.2.4 or 4.2.x.


I'm looking for a clean, easy, unattended method to upgrade
about a dozen systems to kde 4.3.x (Or KDE 4 stable only). I'm 
not sure what the latest stable kde4 version is, 
or what folks recommend.


Since I try to keep the system with the same packages installed, as to
not cause me to go crazy. Most are using SETS and the /etc/portage
files are a mess and all different.


Simplification and consolidation on kde 4 that is stable is my goal.
Trying to upgrade causes a painful one step at a time editing of
the /etc/portage files. I need to get away from that!

Suggestions or documents are most appreciated, even if I have to unmerge
all of kde4-hack and reinstall kde4.3(stable).

Is this guide the best (and current) to use:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde4-guide.xml#doc_chap2


I'm looking for guidance and wisdom here, to keep my admin time
at a minimal on kde4.


ideas?
James

Re: [gentoo-user] kde4 upgrading

[Alan McKinnon]

On Tuesday 27 October 2009 18:13:29 James wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have several workstations on kde4, mostly 4.2.4 or 4.2.x.
> 
> 
> I'm looking for a clean, easy, unattended method to upgrade
> about a dozen systems to kde 4.3.x (Or KDE 4 stable only). I'm
> not sure what the latest stable kde4 version is,
> or what folks recommend.

latest stable is 4.3.1

4.3.2 seems to work fine for most folk. These days it's X causing grief, not 
KDE...

> Since I try to keep the system with the same packages installed, as to
> not cause me to go crazy. Most are using SETS and the /etc/portage
> files are a mess and all different.
> 
> 
> Simplification and consolidation on kde 4 that is stable is my goal.
> Trying to upgrade causes a painful one step at a time editing of
> the /etc/portage files. I need to get away from that!

Pick the primary workstation and get that one right, either using sets you 
like or the -meta packages.

x11-terms/clusterssh is your friend here:

configure it to log into all your workstations;
launch it;
what you type is sent to every workstation

aka how-to-update-many-machines-in-parallel

:-)

> 
> Suggestions or documents are most appreciated, even if I have to unmerge
> all of kde4-hack and reinstall kde4.3(stable).
> 
> Is this guide the best (and current) to use:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/kde/kde4-guide.xml#doc_chap2
> 
> 
> I'm looking for guidance and wisdom here, to keep my admin time
> at a minimal on kde4.
> 
> 
> ideas?
> James
> 

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] kde4 upgrading

[Frank Steinmetzger]

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Am Dienstag, 27. Oktober 2009 schrieb Alan McKinnon:

> > Since I try to keep the system with the same packages installed, as to
> > not cause me to go crazy. Most are using SETS and the /etc/portage
> > files are a mess and all different.
> >
> >
> > Simplification and consolidation on kde 4 that is stable is my goal.
> > Trying to upgrade causes a painful one step at a time editing of
> > the /etc/portage files. I need to get away from that!
>
> Pick the primary workstation and get that one right, either using sets you
> like or the -meta packages.
>
> x11-terms/clusterssh is your friend here:
>
> configure it to log into all your workstations;
> launch it;
> what you type is sent to every workstation
>
> aka how-to-update-many-machines-in-parallel

Another possibility would be to compile on one machine and then distribute the 
binary packages using --buildpkg and --usepkg. That would only work of course 
if the hardware is identical and/or CFLAGS and CHOST are compatible.
-- 
Gruß | Greetings | Qapla'
"Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy." (R. Heinlein)

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Re: [gentoo-user] kde4 upgrading

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:24:30 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote:

> x11-terms/clusterssh is your friend here:
> 
> configure it to log into all your workstations;
> launch it;
> what you type is sent to every workstation

You can also do this with app-shells/dsh and sys-cluster/tentakel. what
I'd really like to see, which none of them seem to offer, is to be able
to do scp to multiple machines.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

The sooner you fall behind the more time you'll have to catch up.

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[gentoo-user] Re: kde4 upgrading

[James]

Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon <at> gmail.com> writes:


> 4.3.2 seems to work fine for most folk. These days it's X causing grief, not 
> KDE...

OK, so I keep the system locked down on X (that it is using) and just
deal with kde4 for now.


> Pick the primary workstation and get that one right, either using sets you 
> like or the -meta packages.


kde-meta is ideal for me. I thought it was going away?
Since kde(4)-meta is alive and well, that is my preferred
method. I hope when kde-meta goes away (?) there is a migration
plan? When this whole kde4 venture started for me (feb 09)
I was told to avoid meta as it is going away.......

 
> x11-terms/clusterssh is your friend here:
> configure it to log into all your workstations;
> launch it;
> what you type is sent to every workstation
> aka how-to-update-many-machines-in-parallel


Interesting, but not what I'm looking for. I do not mind
upgrading the systems one at a time. I just do 1 per day,
while I do other work. What has me "hacked" is that every time
I do an upgrade to kde4, it seems to be a different set
of problems, even though the upgrades are a few days apart.
Multiply across a dozen workstations, and it's a time sink.
Granted, I have various CPU arch (intel or amd64)
different video hardware and various X and drivers that
contributes. But chasing down packages in sets and dealing
with the daily dynamic (every few days a different issue)
is just too much for me. META_MAN is my hero!


How long is kde-meta going to be around?
That's really what I'm looking for.....

PS, if one of you really smart guys figures out mass/parallel
upgrades, then I'd use that, even set up my own server
to keep it efficient. I'm not smart enough (not enough time
at current mental aptitude) to set all of that up, unless 
somebody else does the foundational work.....

But I very much like the concept. Upgrade a master system. 
Test it. Then  push your own binaries/files to the other systems 
you manage. Somebody figures that out, i.e. works out the bugs,
 Gentoo is going mainstream...... If someone did that, they could
just put their admin scripts and settings in an ebuild. Then users
could just emerge that ebuild and set the list of installed packages.
VERY COOL.




James

[gentoo-user] Re: kde4 upgrading

[James]

Frank Steinmetzger <Warp_7 <at> gmx.de> writes:


> > aka how-to-update-many-machines-in-parallel

> Another possibility would be to compile on one machine and then distribute the 
> binary packages using --buildpkg and --usepkg. That would only work of course 
> if the hardware is identical and/or CFLAGS and CHOST are compatible.

This does sound enticing. Has anyone does this sort of thing?



James

[gentoo-user] Re: kde4 upgrading

[Jonathan Callen]

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James wrote:
> kde-meta is ideal for me. I thought it was going away?
> Since kde(4)-meta is alive and well, that is my preferred
> method. I hope when kde-meta goes away (?) there is a migration
> plan? When this whole kde4 venture started for me (feb 09)
> I was told to avoid meta as it is going away.......
> 
> [...]
> 
> How long is kde-meta going to be around?
> That's really what I'm looking for.....
> 


kde-base/kde*-meta won't be going away any time soon, if at all.  The
original plan, way back when, was to transition everything to sets, but
the current implementation in portage 2.2_rc* does not currently do
everything that is needed, so we are recommending the usage of the meta
packages.

- --
Jonathan Callen
Gentoo KDE Developer
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: kde4 upgrading

[Alan McKinnon]

On Wednesday 28 October 2009 02:28:43 James wrote:
> PS, if one of you really smart guys figures out mass/parallel
> upgrades, then I'd use that, even set up my own server
> to keep it efficient. I'm not smart enough (not enough time
> at current mental aptitude) to set all of that up, unless 
> somebody else does the foundational work.....
> 
> But I very much like the concept. Upgrade a master system. 
> Test it. Then  push your own binaries/files to the other systems 
> you manage. Somebody figures that out, i.e. works out the bugs,
>  Gentoo is going mainstream...... If someone did that, they could
> just put their admin scripts and settings in an ebuild. Then users
> could just emerge that ebuild and set the list of installed packages.
> VERY COOL.
> 

All that already exists and is fully supported by portage. Build your packages 
on one central machine and pull them from the workstations.

"man emerge" and search for BINHOST.

The only catch is to define the various settings (USE, CHOST, CFLAGS) to 
something compatible with all your machines. This is not a big deal, it's the 
kind of decisions a binary distro must make and those work fine


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: kde4 upgrading

[Stroller]

I've edited your message when quoting it in order to meet my agenda.

On 28 Oct 2009, at 00:28, James wrote:
> ....
> PS, if one of you really smart guys figures out mass/parallel
> upgrades, then I'd use that, even set up my own server
> to keep it efficient. I'm not smart enough (not enough time
> at current mental aptitude) to set all of that up, unless
> somebody else does the foundational work.....
>
> But I very much like the concept. Upgrade a master system.
> Test it. Then  push your own binaries/files to the other systems
> you manage.

There are already a number of ways of managing multiple machines. How  
do you think universities, corporations and public bodies with  
hundreds or thousands of desktops manage? I think I would be looking  
at something like having the machines PXE boot a single image or NFS  
mounting various directories, if I were in your situation. I've never  
actually done this, but I'm sure a little research would produce a  
less labour intensive solution.

> ...
> Interesting, but not what I'm looking for. I do not mind
> upgrading the systems one at a time. I just do 1 per day,
> while I do other work. What has me "hacked" is that every time
> I do an upgrade to kde4, it seems to be a different set
> of problems, even though the upgrades are a few days apart.
> Multiply across a dozen workstations, and it's a time sink.

It seems to me, from your description, that your dozen machines are at  
the limit of your ability to maintain this way. No one would ever  
consider upgrading sites with 100 machines one by one each day, and it  
would be crazy to try and run a beefy thin-client server just to serve  
one or two desktops.

So the network has grown from a couple of machines to a dozen, and  
you're still doing things the same way - the question is, will you be  
able to continue doing things the same way if you were to double the  
number of PCs by next year?

I think that alternative methods of approaching system administration  
are sure to bring their own problems and require an investment of time  
to implement, but I don't see how upgrading machines one by one is  
sustainable. Honestly, it would be driving me crazy to be in your  
position, and I think some other alternative might well show time and  
hassle saved once it's up and running.

Stroller.

[gentoo-user] Re (DONE): kde4 upgrading

[James]

Stroller <stroller <at> stellar.eclipse.co.uk> writes:


> I think that alternative methods of approaching system administration  
> are sure to bring their own problems and require an investment of time  
> to implement, but I don't see how upgrading machines one by one is  
> sustainable. Honestly, it would be driving me crazy to be in your  
> position, and I think some other alternative might well show time and  
> hassle saved once it's up and running.


OK guys.
Thanks for the unecessary tongue lashing.
The systems rarely are at my location. I just cannot upgrade them
at my decision, as they belong to others.


Some of the machines I do not physically get for 6 months at a time.
Sure, I could hack something together, but, imho it would make much 
more sense for a common method, as I'm certain I not the only one with
this issue. I install Gentoo on systems for lots of folks (cause the 
install process is a pain for those without thick skin...) I have been
reluctant to try the 10 install disk, as I have too many bad memories
of install disks...... I hack my installs now.


Some take over admin, some ask for help, some work too much and hate parting
with machines. Many are dual boot running windows software that cannot
run under linux or wine or vmware (mostly embedded development proprietary
development software). 

I'm not willing to invest the time to figure this out nor go it alone.
Somebody puts it together, I'll test it and use it.

So, KDE-meta is just fine, for now, cause the rest of Gentoo is just fine.
It's X and KDE4 that are the time_sink for me.

thx,
James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re (DONE): kde4 upgrading

[Stroller]

On 29 Oct 2009, at 14:59, James wrote:
> Stroller <stroller <at> stellar.eclipse.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>> I think that alternative methods of approaching system administration
>> are sure to bring their own problems and require an investment of  
>> time
>> to implement, but I don't see how upgrading machines one by one is
>> sustainable. Honestly, it would be driving me crazy to be in your
>> position, and I think some other alternative might well show time and
>> hassle saved once it's up and running.
> ...
>
> Thanks for the unecessary tongue lashing.
> The systems rarely are at my location. I just cannot upgrade them
> at my decision, as they belong to others.
>
>
> Some of the machines I do not physically get for 6 months at a time.
> ...

I didn't intend to give you a tongue-lashing, and I'm sorry if I  
offended you. I was just trying to help and suggest a better way.

Obviously, I didn't know that the machines are in diverse locations,  
and obviously that makes a unified strategy impossible. I fear there's  
very little you  can do, except log in remotely and regularly,  
allowing you to minimise update hassles and become familiar with  
issues as they are current.

Stroller.
  

Re: [gentoo-user] Re (DONE): kde4 upgrading

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 29 October 2009 16:59:24 James wrote:
> Stroller <stroller <at> stellar.eclipse.co.uk> writes:
> > I think that alternative methods of approaching system administration  
> > are sure to bring their own problems and require an investment of time  
> > to implement, but I don't see how upgrading machines one by one is  
> > sustainable. Honestly, it would be driving me crazy to be in your  
> > position, and I think some other alternative might well show time and  
> > hassle saved once it's up and running.
> 
> OK guys.
> Thanks for the unecessary tongue lashing.
> The systems rarely are at my location. I just cannot upgrade them
> at my decision, as they belong to others.
> 

Ah. That explains a lot.

You can ignore my other mail of 10 minutes ago about updating multiple 
machines simultaneously.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com