[gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Grant]

I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
think?

- Grant
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Florian Philipp]

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On Sat, 2008-03-22 at 10:07 -0700, Grant wrote:
> I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
> AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
> faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
> think?
> 
> - Grant

I work at the German Aerospace Center (basically the German NASA). We've
been using AMD CPUs for a long time on our clusters and workstations
because they were not only cheaper but also faster on floating point
operations whereas Intel was faster on integer operations. Now we are
switching to Intel because AMD lost this advantage and has problems
delivering the ordered number of CPUs.
I personally stick with AMD because they have a factory in Germany and I
don't want Intel to rule the market as they've done before AMD came up
with the Athlon XP.

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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Norman Rieß]

Florian Philipp schrieb:
> On Sat, 2008-03-22 at 10:07 -0700, Grant wrote:
>   
>> I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
>> AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
>> faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
>> think?
>>
>> - Grant
>>     
>
> I work at the German Aerospace Center (basically the German NASA). We've
> been using AMD CPUs for a long time on our clusters and workstations
> because they were not only cheaper but also faster on floating point
> operations whereas Intel was faster on integer operations. Now we are
> switching to Intel because AMD lost this advantage and has problems
> delivering the ordered number of CPUs.
> I personally stick with AMD because they have a factory in Germany and I
> don't want Intel to rule the market as they've done before AMD came up
> with the Athlon XP.
>   
I can confirm that. The German Weather Service uses AMD CPU's on the 
servers for visualising weathercharts due to better FPU performance.
The new bunch of servers however are intel systems.

Norman
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Enrico Weigelt]

Hi folks,

from an "typical" SME view (mostly workstation and fileservers)
I don't really see an performance difference worth thinking of
(as already stated, there're lot's of other bottlenecks, like
storage IO).

AMD tends to win this battle by price, but Intel tends to be a 
bit more rubust: I'm still running a bunch of P3 boxes and never
get an CPU killed, but Athlon's ("plain", not notebook variants)
can be easily burned by improper cooling. But with an good cooling
(eg. NOT using cheap gel beared fans), I don't see major problems.

So for most cases I personally prefer AMD simply by costs.


BTW: I'd really interested in experience reports about completely
different architectures (eg. RISC based).

cu
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Norman Rieß]

Grant schrieb:
> I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
> AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
> faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
> think?
>
> - Grant
>   
Well the experience of a desktop or an application depends on more than 
just the processor. Nearly every part of a computer does its part. And 
then you have the software, what software you use, how it is build, what 
reqirements this software has on other software and hardware and so on. 
Does it uses the FPU or is it heavy on the ALU. How much IO is used and 
how much can the system provide.
But if you believe the average hardwaremagazine, intel is a step ahead 
right now.

Norman
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Florian Philipp]

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On Sat, 2008-03-22 at 18:44 +0100, Norman Rieß wrote:
> Grant schrieb:
> > I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
> > AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
> > faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
> > think?
> >
> > - Grant
> >   
> Well the experience of a desktop or an application depends on more than 
> just the processor. Nearly every part of a computer does its part. And 
> then you have the software, what software you use, how it is build, what 
> reqirements this software has on other software and hardware and so on. 
> Does it uses the FPU or is it heavy on the ALU. How much IO is used and 
> how much can the system provide.
> But if you believe the average hardwaremagazine, intel is a step ahead 
> right now.
> 
> Norman

When Intel finally implements HyperTransport (I think it's planned for
the next generation), AMD will loose their last bastion performance
wise ... what a pity.

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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Grant]

>  > > I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
>  > > AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
>  > > faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
>  > > think?
>  > >
>  > > - Grant
>  > >
>  > Well the experience of a desktop or an application depends on more than
>  > just the processor. Nearly every part of a computer does its part. And
>  > then you have the software, what software you use, how it is build, what
>  > reqirements this software has on other software and hardware and so on.
>  > Does it uses the FPU or is it heavy on the ALU. How much IO is used and
>  > how much can the system provide.
>  > But if you believe the average hardwaremagazine, intel is a step ahead
>  > right now.
>  >
>  > Norman
>
>  When Intel finally implements HyperTransport (I think it's planned for
>  the next generation), AMD will loose their last bastion performance
>  wise ... what a pity.

It is a pity.  When did AMD's overall advantage disappear?

- Grant
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Norman Rieß]

Grant schrieb:
>>  > > I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
>>  > > AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
>>  > > faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
>>  > > think?
>>  > >
>>  > > - Grant
>>  > >
>>  > Well the experience of a desktop or an application depends on more than
>>  > just the processor. Nearly every part of a computer does its part. And
>>  > then you have the software, what software you use, how it is build, what
>>  > reqirements this software has on other software and hardware and so on.
>>  > Does it uses the FPU or is it heavy on the ALU. How much IO is used and
>>  > how much can the system provide.
>>  > But if you believe the average hardwaremagazine, intel is a step ahead
>>  > right now.
>>  >
>>  > Norman
>>
>>  When Intel finally implements HyperTransport (I think it's planned for
>>  the next generation), AMD will loose their last bastion performance
>>  wise ... what a pity.
>>     
>
> It is a pity.  When did AMD's overall advantage disappear?
>
> - Grant
>   
With the arrival of the Core CPU's.
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[gentoo-user] Re: AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[James]

Norman Rieß <norman <at> smash-net.org> writes:


> > It is a pity.  When did AMD's overall advantage disappear?

> With the arrival of the Core CPU's.

When/if AMD is able to complete their new architecture, integrating
video processors with 64 bit processors they might become competitive
on a cost/performance basis. Certainly with AMD open sourcing new video
driver development, they still have a v very strong appeal to open sources
users. HIGH end technical clusters and the processors they use are different
needs than the average small business or consumer, which needs robust support
for open source video and applications.


If everyone runs to Intel, we'll all be *very sorry* in a few years.......


The ultimate questions is do you really make a purchase decision base strictly
on extreme benchmark results, or do you stand by your vendor, as they regroup
and keep things competitive? Remember Intel has been just as evil as Redmond
particular in matters related to DeCSS and video on computer issues, IMHO.


AMD is my soul_mate....(particularly since they are open sourcing new
ATI video drivers...)

James










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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Jesús Guerrero]

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:34:57 +0000 (UTC)
James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:


> AMD is my soul_mate....(particularly since they are open sourcing new
> ATI video drivers...)
> 
As far as I know, and unless something changed, that's inaccurate.

They haven't released any code at all. They have released *some*
specifications for some graphics chips.

They started releasing the register specs for some cards. Recently,
they released the 3d specs, only for r500 chips as far as I know.
It's better than nothing of course... But it far far far from open
sourcing the drivers or releasing the whole specifications for every
card.

I would be glad to be wrong though. I must admit that I don't follow
too closely the thing, so, any info to probe me wrong is more than
welcome.

Regards.
-- 
Jesús Guerrero <i92guboj@terra.es>
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Andrey Falko]

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Grant <emailgrant@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  > > I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
>  >  > > AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
>  >  > > faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
>  >  > > think?
>  >  > >
>  >  > > - Grant
>  >  > >
>  >  > Well the experience of a desktop or an application depends on more than
>  >  > just the processor. Nearly every part of a computer does its part. And
>  >  > then you have the software, what software you use, how it is build, what
>  >  > reqirements this software has on other software and hardware and so on.
>  >  > Does it uses the FPU or is it heavy on the ALU. How much IO is used and
>  >  > how much can the system provide.
>  >  > But if you believe the average hardwaremagazine, intel is a step ahead
>  >  > right now.
>  >  >
>  >  > Norman
>  >
>  >  When Intel finally implements HyperTransport (I think it's planned for
>  >  the next generation), AMD will loose their last bastion performance
>  >  wise ... what a pity.
>
>  It is a pity.  When did AMD's overall advantage disappear?
>
>  - Grant
>
When Intel came out with its Core Two Duo CPUs, and *really* when
Intel came out with Quad Cores before AMD.
>
> --
>  gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
>
>
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Samstag, 22. März 2008, Grant wrote:
> I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
> AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
> faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
> think?

price/performance still favours AMD.

Also, without even knowing your hardware, it is really hard to say why your 
laptop is faster or your desktop slower.
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Neil Walker]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> price/performance still favours AMD.
>   

How on earth do you justify that statement? I am an AMD fan and have 
been since the 486/133 (was a Cyrix fan before then) but I can certainly 
tell you that the performance of the Intel Q6600 makes the AMD Phenom 
7600 look decidedly  pathetic and the Intel is cheaper - at least where 
I shop. I have both so I am talking from practical experience. I have an 
AMD Phenom 7500 sitting on the floor behind me which isn't even worth 
sticking in a motherboard. Another Intel Q6600 arrives on Tuesday. I 
really hope AMD get their lead back but they are struggling at the 
moment. :(


Be lucky,

Neil


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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Sonntag, 23. März 2008, Neil Walker wrote:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > price/performance still favours AMD.
>
> How on earth do you justify that statement? 


AMD Athlon64 X2 EE 6000+ 129€ (boxed)

Intel® Core 2 Duo E6850 234€
Intel® Core 2 Duo E4700 134€ (not boxed).

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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Neil Walker]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> How on earth do you justify that statement? 
>>     
>
>
> AMD Athlon64 X2 EE 6000+ 129€ (boxed)
>
> Intel® Core 2 Duo E6850 234€
> Intel® Core 2 Duo E4700 134€ (not boxed).
>   

There is no equivalence there in terms of actual processing power. The 
best buy on the market for "bang per buck" is the Intel Q6600. Also, 
whilst nominally a 2.4 GHz chip, it runs happily at 3.0 GHz with the 
standard cooler - some examples even faster.  ;)

 From Overclockers.co.uk:

> Intel Core 2 Quad Pro Q6600 "Energy Efficient SLACR 95W Edition" 
> 2.40GHz (1066FSB) - OEM 
> <http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-172-IN&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat=>
>
> Quad Core Technology, 2.40GHz clock speed, 8MB L2 Cache, Intel 
> Speedstep Technology, EM64T 64-Bit Technology, Execute Disable Bit, 
> Energy Efficient Version, 1yr Warranty.
>
> Average rating of 5.0 
> <http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-172-IN&tool=3&groupid=701&catid=6&subcat=> 
> 	Intel 	10+ in stock 	£123.99
> (£145.69)
>


Be lucky,

Neil




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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Mark Knecht]

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
<volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
> On Sonntag, 23. März 2008, Neil Walker wrote:
>  > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>  > > price/performance still favours AMD.
>  >
>  > How on earth do you justify that statement?
>
>
>  AMD Athlon64 X2 EE 6000+ 129€ (boxed)
>
>  Intel(R) Core 2 Duo E6850 234€
>  Intel(R) Core 2 Duo E4700 134€ (not boxed).
>
>  --
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>
>

I find Tom;s Hardware is a nice site to refer to:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Alexander Meinke]

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Hi.

AMD has had better engineers than Intel all the time. Intel just had the money.
A few years ago the CIO from Intel advised engineers to be more creative. So AMD
will stay ahead of the pack and if they find the right way (actually they're
going the right way -> open specifications) the competition is going on.
I hope that nVidia won't acquire AMD.
In fact atm. there is no measurable performance difference weather in IU nor in
FPU operations, however AMD has a better performance/price.
In HPCs AMD beats Intel because they don't use obsolete FSB. I am looking
forward to the new CPU architecture where GPU and CPU find together.

I am using Intel technology because chipset, wlan, bluetooth and so on are
working great together, although there is no HypterTransport. Intel is going to
follow AMD because they have the money.


Regards,

acm.


PS: Greets to the German Aerospace Center in Neustrelitz and it's networking
department.
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Re: [gentoo-user] AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[Chris Walters]

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Grant wrote:
| I had become an AMD guy, but I think I'm hearing that Intel is beating
| AMD in performance tests.  Plus my AMD64 X2 desktop should be much
| faster than my Intel laptop but is actually slower.  What do you guys
| think?
|
| - Grant

Well, as others have pointed out, the speed you experience, as an end consumer
has to do with every other component in your computer, in addition to the CPU.
For example, the bus speed of the mainboard, the chipset, the size, speed and
type of hard drives you have, and of course, the video hardware (including the
interfaces to the mainboard.  Lest I forget, it also depends a lot on the
amount and speed of the RAM that you have in your system.

As for the performance tests, they are not generally a very good measure of how
well a processor will perform in the real world.  AMD and Intel have been in
competition for the #1 spot since AMD was formed, and for a long time AMD was
ahead of Intel on a number of factors (performance and cost being two).  Give
it some time, and you'll see a turn around, IMHO.  I can't be certain, since I
haven't been keeping up with industry news, as I should, but I believe that AMD
has always had the better engineers.

Regards,
Chris
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[gentoo-user] Re: AMD vs. Intel on Gentoo?

[James]

Chris Walters <cjw2004d <at> comcast.net> writes:


> As for the performance tests, they are not generally a very good measure of how
> well a processor will perform in the real world.  AMD and Intel have been in
> competition for the #1 spot since AMD was formed, and for a long time AMD was
> ahead of Intel on a number of factors (performance and cost being two).  Give
> it some time, and you'll see a turn around, IMHO.  I can't be certain, since I
> haven't been keeping up with industry news, as I should, but I believe that AMD
> has always had the better engineers.


Well stated. Here's a tidbit where Intel is being sued by U of Wisconsin for
Patent infringement related to the core 2....


http://www.siliconvalley.com/latestheadlines/ci_8209087





James

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