[gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[James]

Time To build a new AMD system.

What I'm sure of:
FX-8350
Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo


Suggestions on these hardware:

Blueray RW (Vendor ?)

DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?)
ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues?

CPU cooler (vendor-model?)
One that this mobo without cramping ram space?

passively cooled AMD/ATI video card (vendor-model?)


NewEgg is my usual vendor, but any other suggestions
are most welcome.


James

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[Andrew Hoffman]

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cpu cooler:
Small quiet good performance
http://hardocp.com/article/2012/11/06/thermalright_true_spirit_120m_cpu_air_cooler_review
Big, quiet very good performance. I own this and love it
http://hardocp.com/article/2011/07/26/thermalright_hr02_macho_cpu_air_cooler_review/
-Andy

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:00 PM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>
> Time To build a new AMD system.
>
> What I'm sure of:
> FX-8350
> Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo
>
>
> Suggestions on these hardware:
>
> Blueray RW (Vendor ?)
>
> DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?)
> ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues?
>
> CPU cooler (vendor-model?)
> One that this mobo without cramping ram space?
>
> passively cooled AMD/ATI video card (vendor-model?)
>
>
> NewEgg is my usual vendor, but any other suggestions
> are most welcome.
>
>
> James
>
>
>

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[gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[James]

Andrew Hoffman <sixgod <at> gmail.com> writes:


> cpu cooler:

>
http://hardocp.com/article/2012/11/06/thermalright_true_spirit_120m_cpu_air_cooler_review

> Big, quiet very good performance. I own this and love it
>
http://hardocp.com/article/2011/07/26/thermalright_hr02_macho_cpu_air_cooler_review/
> -AndyOn Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:00 PM, James <wireless <at> tampabay.rr.com> 

Any ides on the dB (noise) rating?
I like my machines on the low dB side....

I did not see dB ratings after looking at both,
but, could have easily missed them.

passive  or a slow speed (low dB fan)
 on a water cooler would be keen?
affordable?
Necessary?


James

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

James wrote:
> Time To build a new AMD system.
>
> What I'm sure of:
> FX-8350
> Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo

I have a Gigabyte mobo.  Good choice.  I don't have that specific model
but brand is good.  I been wanting to get that CPU too.  ;-) 

>
> Suggestions on these hardware:
>
> Blueray RW (Vendor ?)

Prices are coming down on those so that could be a good move.  Also, if
you use CD/DVD/Blueray to backup data, also a good idea to have this. 

>
> DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?)
> ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues?

If you go to Gigabyte's website and look up your mobo, there is a link
on the right that tells you what CPUs and memory are tested and BIOS
version needed too if CPU is very new.  Generally they test the larger
brands on memory but it gives you a good idea what works.  I used G
Skill and I have had no problems.  I have 16Gbs on mine.  Crucial and
others are good to tho.  Just get the fastest speed the mobo can handle. 

On the fit issue.  My CPU cooler does touch one of my coolers on the
memory card.  It just needs a extra 1/8" to be clear of it but it does
touch.  I have a LARGE CPU cooler tho.  I bought about the biggest they
had at the time that was within reason price wise.  My CPU does run very
cool tho.  I have a Cooler Master HAF-932 case.  Lots of large fans. 

>
> CPU cooler (vendor-model?)
> One that this mobo without cramping ram space?

See above. 
>
> passively cooled AMD/ATI video card (vendor-model?)

My video card was donated.  It's Nvidia based so that does not apply
since you want ATI. 
>
>
> NewEgg is my usual vendor, but any other suggestions
> are most welcome.
>
>
> James
>
>
>

If you want links and such, let me know.  I bought mine from newegg to. 
I'm pretty sure my CPU cooler will fit yours but it is big.  The one
that comes with the CPU is really small.  I wouldn't trust that.

Hope this helps.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Andrew Hoffman]

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I don't have any info on the noise other hand the fan on my hr-02 macho
will turn off from time to time because it cools so well. My video cards
are definitely the loudest in my system.
For you, someone who likes quiet systems, air or water both still need a
fan and will make noise and the fan you pick has the biggest impact on
noise. Thermalright makes very good high quality products and does not
skimp when selecting the fan. I you can check on Newegg for the fan they
use on the cooler and find out its ratings but like I said my system turns
the fan off from time to time with cool and quiet enabled on my machine.
You will want to check hardocp's review on the h100 water cooling kit from
corsair but I don't have any first hand experience with them.
-andy
On Nov 9, 2012 1:56 PM, "James" <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> Andrew Hoffman <sixgod <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
> > cpu cooler:
>
> >
>
> http://hardocp.com/article/2012/11/06/thermalright_true_spirit_120m_cpu_air_cooler_review
>
> > Big, quiet very good performance. I own this and love it
> >
>
> http://hardocp.com/article/2011/07/26/thermalright_hr02_macho_cpu_air_cooler_review/
> > -AndyOn Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:00 PM, James <wireless <at>
> tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Any ides on the dB (noise) rating?
> I like my machines on the low dB side....
>
> I did not see dB ratings after looking at both,
> but, could have easily missed them.
>
> passive  or a slow speed (low dB fan)
>  on a water cooler would be keen?
> affordable?
> Necessary?
>
>
> James
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[pk]

On 2012-11-09 20:00, James wrote:

> passively cooled AMD/ATI video card (vendor-model?)

If you wish to use kms and mesa drivers, you can compare the current
status of various AMD chips here:

http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature#Feature_Matrix_for_Free_Radeon_Drivers

I got a Sapphire HD6670 Ultimate edition (passively cooled) which works
beautifully in all things that I use it for (desktop, games, video). I
picked the radeon 6670 (Northern Islands chip, "Turks" to be specific)
because it's the latest chip with the best mesa support (Southern
Islands chips 3D support is work-in-progress at the moment) and I'm
happy with it.

Best regards

Peter K

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 19:00:12 schrieb James:
> Time To build a new AMD system.
> 
> What I'm sure of:
> FX-8350
> Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo
> 
> 
> Suggestions on these hardware:
> 
> Blueray RW (Vendor ?)
> 
> DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?)
> ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues?
> 
> CPU cooler (vendor-model?)

doesn't the 8350 come boxed with a watercooling solution?


-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 19:00:12 schrieb James:
>> Time To build a new AMD system.
>>
>> What I'm sure of:
>> FX-8350
>> Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo
>>
>>
>> Suggestions on these hardware:
>>
>> Blueray RW (Vendor ?)
>>
>> DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?)
>> ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues?
>>
>> CPU cooler (vendor-model?)
> doesn't the 8350 come boxed with a watercooling solution?
>
>

Nope.  It comes with a traditional air cooled heat sink, small one to
me.  I don't think I have ever seen a CPU comes with a water cooled heat
sink, not from the OEM at least.  Someone may sell one that is bundled
by a vendor or something but I have never seen one boxed from AMD.  I
don't keep up with Intel other than what I see posted here. 

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4904561&CatId=7339

Link if you are interested.  I picked that because it loads faster than
newegg. Is it just me or is newegg slow for everyone?  That and AT&T's
website is like pouring cold molasses.  o_O 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Samstag, 10. November 2012, 01:42:54 schrieb Dale:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 19:00:12 schrieb James:
> >> Time To build a new AMD system.
> >> 
> >> What I'm sure of:
> >> FX-8350
> >> Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Suggestions on these hardware:
> >> 
> >> Blueray RW (Vendor ?)
> >> 
> >> DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?)
> >> ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues?
> >> 
> >> CPU cooler (vendor-model?)
> > 
> > doesn't the 8350 come boxed with a watercooling solution?
> 
> Nope.  It comes with a traditional air cooled heat sink, small one to
> me.  I don't think I have ever seen a CPU comes with a water cooled heat
> sink, not from the OEM at least.  Someone may sell one that is bundled
> by a vendor or something but I have never seen one boxed from AMD.  I
> don't keep up with Intel other than what I see posted here.

well, here is an example: AMD FX-8150 boxed with a watercooler. It even has 
that AMD sticker on it:

 http://www.alternate.de/html/product/AMD/FX-8150/982738/?tk=7&lk=3834

;)

> 
-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> Am Samstag, 10. November 2012, 01:42:54 schrieb Dale:
>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>> Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 19:00:12 schrieb James:
>>>> Time To build a new AMD system.
>>>>
>>>> What I'm sure of:
>>>> FX-8350
>>>> Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Suggestions on these hardware:
>>>>
>>>> Blueray RW (Vendor ?)
>>>>
>>>> DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?)
>>>> ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues?
>>>>
>>>> CPU cooler (vendor-model?)
>>> doesn't the 8350 come boxed with a watercooling solution?
>> Nope.  It comes with a traditional air cooled heat sink, small one to
>> me.  I don't think I have ever seen a CPU comes with a water cooled heat
>> sink, not from the OEM at least.  Someone may sell one that is bundled
>> by a vendor or something but I have never seen one boxed from AMD.  I
>> don't keep up with Intel other than what I see posted here.
> well, here is an example: AMD FX-8150 boxed with a watercooler. It even has 
> that AMD sticker on it:
>
>  http://www.alternate.de/html/product/AMD/FX-8150/982738/?tk=7&lk=3834
>
> ;)
>

Well, now I have seen one.  Thing is, it's not in the USA where the OP
is or me either for that matter.  Heck, I'm not even sure what the
language on the page is.  I just wonder why they don't offer that in the
USA?  Lots of people in the USA use water cooling so it would likely sell. 

I like mine with just a bare chip.  I always buy my own cooler anyway. 
I don't think I have ever used a OEM cooler.  Well, I used the one that
came with my new one as a door stop for a while.  lol 

Thanks for the link. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[Michael Hampicke]

Am 10.11.2012 12:05, schrieb Dale:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> Am Samstag, 10. November 2012, 01:42:54 schrieb Dale:
>>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>>> Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 19:00:12 schrieb James:
>>>>> Time To build a new AMD system.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I'm sure of:
>>>>> FX-8350
>>>>> Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Suggestions on these hardware:
>>>>>
>>>>> Blueray RW (Vendor ?)
>>>>>
>>>>> DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?)
>>>>> ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues?
>>>>>
>>>>> CPU cooler (vendor-model?)
>>>> doesn't the 8350 come boxed with a watercooling solution?
>>> Nope.  It comes with a traditional air cooled heat sink, small one to
>>> me.  I don't think I have ever seen a CPU comes with a water cooled heat
>>> sink, not from the OEM at least.  Someone may sell one that is bundled
>>> by a vendor or something but I have never seen one boxed from AMD.  I
>>> don't keep up with Intel other than what I see posted here.
>> well, here is an example: AMD FX-8150 boxed with a watercooler. It even has 
>> that AMD sticker on it:
>>
>>  http://www.alternate.de/html/product/AMD/FX-8150/982738/?tk=7&lk=3834
>>
>> ;)
>>
> 
> Well, now I have seen one.  Thing is, it's not in the USA where the OP
> is or me either for that matter.  Heck, I'm not even sure what the
> language on the page is.  I just wonder why they don't offer that in the
> USA?  Lots of people in the USA use water cooling so it would likely sell. 
> 
> I like mine with just a bare chip.  I always buy my own cooler anyway. 
> I don't think I have ever used a OEM cooler.  Well, I used the one that
> came with my new one as a door stop for a while.  lol 
> 
> Thanks for the link. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 
> 

It's german man :)

However, seems like Amazon US ships those bod boys too:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005V71EKW/ref=amb_link_363831362_3/187-3646152-7108162?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=hero-quick-promo&pf_rd_r=0B019H36JMGD79M4GQKB&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1414123482&pf_rd_i=B005UBNLFK

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[Bruce Hill]

On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 12:28:45PM +0100, Michael Hampicke wrote:
> 
> However, seems like Amazon US ships those bod boys too:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005V71EKW/ref=amb_link_363831362_3/187-3646152-7108162?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=hero-quick-promo&pf_rd_r=0B019H36JMGD79M4GQKB&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1414123482&pf_rd_i=B005UBNLFK

It's cheaper in the US, also.  <:-)}
-- 
Happy Penguin Computers               >')
126 Fenco Drive                       ( \
Tupelo, MS 38801                       ^^
support@happypenguincomputers.com
662-269-2706 662-205-6424
http://happypenguincomputers.com/

Don't top-post: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_post#Top-posting

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

Michael Hampicke wrote:
> Am 10.11.2012 12:05, schrieb Dale:
>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>> Am Samstag, 10. November 2012, 01:42:54 schrieb Dale:
>>>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>>>> Am Freitag, 9. November 2012, 19:00:12 schrieb James:
>>>>>> Time To build a new AMD system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I'm sure of:
>>>>>> FX-8350
>>>>>> Gigabyte GA-990-FXA-UD3 mobo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suggestions on these hardware:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blueray RW (Vendor ?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DDR3 OC 2000 ram (4x8gig, 240) (vendor?)
>>>>>> ripjaw? Any fit or heat issues?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CPU cooler (vendor-model?)
>>>>> doesn't the 8350 come boxed with a watercooling solution?
>>>> Nope.  It comes with a traditional air cooled heat sink, small one to
>>>> me.  I don't think I have ever seen a CPU comes with a water cooled heat
>>>> sink, not from the OEM at least.  Someone may sell one that is bundled
>>>> by a vendor or something but I have never seen one boxed from AMD.  I
>>>> don't keep up with Intel other than what I see posted here.
>>> well, here is an example: AMD FX-8150 boxed with a watercooler. It even has 
>>> that AMD sticker on it:
>>>
>>>  http://www.alternate.de/html/product/AMD/FX-8150/982738/?tk=7&lk=3834
>>>
>>> ;)
>>>
>> Well, now I have seen one.  Thing is, it's not in the USA where the OP
>> is or me either for that matter.  Heck, I'm not even sure what the
>> language on the page is.  I just wonder why they don't offer that in the
>> USA?  Lots of people in the USA use water cooling so it would likely sell. 
>>
>> I like mine with just a bare chip.  I always buy my own cooler anyway. 
>> I don't think I have ever used a OEM cooler.  Well, I used the one that
>> came with my new one as a door stop for a while.  lol 
>>
>> Thanks for the link. 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
>>
> It's german man :)
>
> However, seems like Amazon US ships those bod boys too:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005V71EKW/ref=amb_link_363831362_3/187-3646152-7108162?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=hero-quick-promo&pf_rd_r=0B019H36JMGD79M4GQKB&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1414123482&pf_rd_i=B005UBNLFK
>
>

I looked again after I sent my reply.  I thought that URL ended in the
code for Germany. 

I don't recall ever buying computer stuff from Amazon.  I buy other
stuff from there but not puter stuff.  It's generally Newegg or
Tigerdirect and I lean heavily on Newegg.  I think the OP mentioned he
was interested in Newegg too. 

I guess it is good for the folks that use water cooling tho.  I run
plenty cool and quiet with air so I'm not planning to switch.  I still
like my CPUs to be bare when possible then purchase my cooler separately. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[James]

Dale <rdalek1967 <at> gmail.com> writes:


> I guess it is good for the folks that use water cooling tho.  I run
> plenty cool and quiet with air so I'm not planning to switch.  I still
> like my CPUs to be bare when possible then purchase my cooler separately. 

For me, it's basic thermodynamics. Water as a (liquid at working temperatures)
fluid, moves orders of magnitude more heat than air (as working fluid) does,
Sure Glycol or TEG (Tetraethylene Glycol) is best, but I do not have time
to find a non corrosive, non conducting fluid in lieu of water (although Silicone
brake fluid or DOT-5 might just do the trick). Sorry for the digression.....

The only caveat, is to get a cooling system, that is made of robust, quality
components. Also, monitoring the temperature is important, and it'd be
nice to have a micro pressure transmitter, downstream of the pumping mechanism
to ensure no leaks by detecting tiny leaks BEFORE they happen (delta-P).

The quite nature of water cooling is keen for me (old ears do not
filter out noise so well anymore....)

I see other AMD processors (FX8150) with a water cooler included, but not the
FX8350? (googling came up short).... on Amazon or elsewhere for sale.

I did find this:
http://www.asetek.com/liquid-cpu-cooling.html

suggesting on cost effective water cooling for the FX8350?

James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

James wrote:
> Dale <rdalek1967 <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>> I guess it is good for the folks that use water cooling tho.  I run
>> plenty cool and quiet with air so I'm not planning to switch.  I still
>> like my CPUs to be bare when possible then purchase my cooler separately. 
> For me, it's basic thermodynamics. Water as a (liquid at working temperatures)
> fluid, moves orders of magnitude more heat than air (as working fluid) does,
> Sure Glycol or TEG (Tetraethylene Glycol) is best, but I do not have time
> to find a non corrosive, non conducting fluid in lieu of water (although Silicone
> brake fluid or DOT-5 might just do the trick). Sorry for the digression.....
>
> The only caveat, is to get a cooling system, that is made of robust, quality
> components. Also, monitoring the temperature is important, and it'd be
> nice to have a micro pressure transmitter, downstream of the pumping mechanism
> to ensure no leaks by detecting tiny leaks BEFORE they happen (delta-P).
>
> The quite nature of water cooling is keen for me (old ears do not
> filter out noise so well anymore....)
>
> I see other AMD processors (FX8150) with a water cooler included, but not the
> FX8350? (googling came up short).... on Amazon or elsewhere for sale.
>
> I did find this:
> http://www.asetek.com/liquid-cpu-cooling.html
>
> suggesting on cost effective water cooling for the FX8350?
>
> James
>
>
>
>
>

Well, my air cooling system is quiet.  I can't hear the fans.  Actually,
the top case fan makes more noise when it is cool than when it is warm
and spinning fast.  I think it is out of balance and wobbles around in
there when spinning slow.  I have to either make it go faster or buy a
new fan.  Anyway, while compiling something like LOo, gcc or something
that takes a long while and really uses the CPU, the highest temp I have
ever seen is 105F for the CPU and it was pretty warm in this room so I
turned on the A/C.  That temp is on air.  Again, I have a Cooler Master
HAF-932 case with the giant 230mm fans.  I'm serious, my bed is like 3
feet away and I can NOT hear the computer at all, not even when
compiling something when the room is warm. 

Also, I don't like liquids around my computer.  I keep a glass of sweet
tea on the head of my bed but I NEVER place any liquid close enough it
could spill on my computer.  I don't even trust myself because accidents
happen.  I just don't like water or other liquids around my computer. I
never have and likely never will.  As long as a CPU can be cooled by
air, I plan to use air.  This is my cooler:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118059

I bought the best cooler I could get at the time that was within reason
price wise.  It's large, efficient, has a large quiet fan and it does a
really good job on temps.  I also used a really good thermal compound too. 

I'm not saying others shouldn't use water, I'm just saying I don't plan
to use it until I have no choice but to. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Pandu Poluan]

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On Nov 11, 2012 12:13 AM, "James" <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Dale <rdalek1967 <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
> > I guess it is good for the folks that use water cooling tho.  I run
> > plenty cool and quiet with air so I'm not planning to switch.  I still
> > like my CPUs to be bare when possible then purchase my cooler
separately.
>
> For me, it's basic thermodynamics. Water as a (liquid at working
temperatures)
> fluid, moves orders of magnitude more heat than air (as working fluid)
does,
> Sure Glycol or TEG (Tetraethylene Glycol) is best, but I do not have time
> to find a non corrosive, non conducting fluid in lieu of water (although
Silicone
> brake fluid or DOT-5 might just do the trick). Sorry for the
digression.....
>

Oh, we like digressions :-)

I recall that sometimes last year, Tom's Hardware tested running a system
without heat sink... but completely immersed in... cooking oil! They made a
large acrylic container, poured in gallons of high-quality cooking oil,
then proceeded to overclock the CPU and GPU to unholy frequencies...

And, IIRC, Seymour Cray likes to use some inert fluoride-based coolant to
dunk the components of his supercomputer machines. And he would even go to
lengths to design a "coolant fountain" that's not only functional, but also
decorative.

> The only caveat, is to get a cooling system, that is made of robust,
quality
> components. Also, monitoring the temperature is important, and it'd be
> nice to have a micro pressure transmitter, downstream of the pumping
mechanism
> to ensure no leaks by detecting tiny leaks BEFORE they happen (delta-P).
>

That's the only qualms I have Re: water-coolant. I always an afraid of
leaks. So, I always wimped out and use the thermal wick kind of almost, but
not quite, somewhat similar to liquid coolant ;-)

Rgds,
--

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

Pandu Poluan wrote:
>
>
> Oh, we like digressions :-)
>
> I recall that sometimes last year, Tom's Hardware tested running a
> system without heat sink... but completely immersed in... cooking oil!
> They made a large acrylic container, poured in gallons of high-quality
> cooking oil, then proceeded to overclock the CPU and GPU to unholy
> frequencies...
>
> And, IIRC, Seymour Cray likes to use some inert fluoride-based coolant
> to dunk the components of his supercomputer machines. And he would
> even go to lengths to design a "coolant fountain" that's not only
> functional, but also decorative.
>
> > The only caveat, is to get a cooling system, that is made of robust,
> quality
> > components. Also, monitoring the temperature is important, and it'd be
> > nice to have a micro pressure transmitter, downstream of the pumping
> mechanism
> > to ensure no leaks by detecting tiny leaks BEFORE they happen (delta-P).
> >
>
> That's the only qualms I have Re: water-coolant. I always an afraid of
> leaks. So, I always wimped out and use the thermal wick kind of
> almost, but not quite, somewhat similar to liquid coolant ;-)
>
> Rgds,
> --
>

I seen on a show once that they use mineral oil when they put those
robots in deep water.  You know, the ones that are remote controlled and
go VERY VERY deep.  Anyway, they put mineral oil in it because it is not
conductive, transmits heat pretty well and it doesn't let the water
pressure crush the little robot.  It can't crush it since it is full of
a liquid already. 

If that is true, why not use mineral oil instead of water?  I understand
that could mean a change in hoses and such but still, if they can make
hoses that can stand up to gas and other really nasty stuff then why not
mineral oil too?  At least with that, if you get a leak it won't burn
out your mobo or whatever else it gets on.  It would be messy tho.  o_O

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Samstag, 10. November 2012, 23:46:52 schrieb Dale:
> Pandu Poluan wrote:
> > Oh, we like digressions :-)
> > 
> > I recall that sometimes last year, Tom's Hardware tested running a
> > system without heat sink... but completely immersed in... cooking oil!
> > They made a large acrylic container, poured in gallons of high-quality
> > cooking oil, then proceeded to overclock the CPU and GPU to unholy
> > frequencies...
> > 
> > And, IIRC, Seymour Cray likes to use some inert fluoride-based coolant
> > to dunk the components of his supercomputer machines. And he would
> > even go to lengths to design a "coolant fountain" that's not only
> > functional, but also decorative.
> > 
> > > The only caveat, is to get a cooling system, that is made of robust,
> > 
> > quality
> > 
> > > components. Also, monitoring the temperature is important, and it'd be
> > > nice to have a micro pressure transmitter, downstream of the pumping
> > 
> > mechanism
> > 
> > > to ensure no leaks by detecting tiny leaks BEFORE they happen (delta-P).
> > 
> > That's the only qualms I have Re: water-coolant. I always an afraid of
> > leaks. So, I always wimped out and use the thermal wick kind of
> > almost, but not quite, somewhat similar to liquid coolant ;-)
> > 
> > Rgds,
> > --
> 
> I seen on a show once that they use mineral oil when they put those
> robots in deep water.  You know, the ones that are remote controlled and
> go VERY VERY deep.  Anyway, they put mineral oil in it because it is not
> conductive, transmits heat pretty well and it doesn't let the water
> pressure crush the little robot.  It can't crush it since it is full of
> a liquid already.
> 
> If that is true, why not use mineral oil instead of water?  I understand
> that could mean a change in hoses and such but still, if they can make
> hoses that can stand up to gas and other really nasty stuff then why not
> mineral oil too?  At least with that, if you get a leak it won't burn
> out your mobo or whatever else it gets on.  It would be messy tho.  o_O
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

lets see.. toxic, expensive, has to be recycled...

vs

water...

also, submerging mobos in cooking oil is nothing new nor special. It smells 
horrible after a while and any change is fucking time consuming (and dirty).

-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> Am Samstag, 10. November 2012, 23:46:52 schrieb Dale:
>> Pandu Poluan wrote:
>>> Oh, we like digressions :-)
>>>
>>> I recall that sometimes last year, Tom's Hardware tested running a
>>> system without heat sink... but completely immersed in... cooking oil!
>>> They made a large acrylic container, poured in gallons of high-quality
>>> cooking oil, then proceeded to overclock the CPU and GPU to unholy
>>> frequencies...
>>>
>>> And, IIRC, Seymour Cray likes to use some inert fluoride-based coolant
>>> to dunk the components of his supercomputer machines. And he would
>>> even go to lengths to design a "coolant fountain" that's not only
>>> functional, but also decorative.
>>>
>>>> The only caveat, is to get a cooling system, that is made of robust,
>>> quality
>>>
>>>> components. Also, monitoring the temperature is important, and it'd be
>>>> nice to have a micro pressure transmitter, downstream of the pumping
>>> mechanism
>>>
>>>> to ensure no leaks by detecting tiny leaks BEFORE they happen (delta-P).
>>> That's the only qualms I have Re: water-coolant. I always an afraid of
>>> leaks. So, I always wimped out and use the thermal wick kind of
>>> almost, but not quite, somewhat similar to liquid coolant ;-)
>>>
>>> Rgds,
>>> --
>> I seen on a show once that they use mineral oil when they put those
>> robots in deep water.  You know, the ones that are remote controlled and
>> go VERY VERY deep.  Anyway, they put mineral oil in it because it is not
>> conductive, transmits heat pretty well and it doesn't let the water
>> pressure crush the little robot.  It can't crush it since it is full of
>> a liquid already.
>>
>> If that is true, why not use mineral oil instead of water?  I understand
>> that could mean a change in hoses and such but still, if they can make
>> hoses that can stand up to gas and other really nasty stuff then why not
>> mineral oil too?  At least with that, if you get a leak it won't burn
>> out your mobo or whatever else it gets on.  It would be messy tho.  o_O
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
> lets see.. toxic, expensive, has to be recycled...
>
> vs
>
> water...
>
> also, submerging mobos in cooking oil is nothing new nor special. It smells 
> horrible after a while and any change is fucking time consuming (and dirty).
>

I didn't say to use cooking oil, I said to use mineral oil.  Also, how
is mineral oil toxic?  Baby oil is mineral oil.  I have psoriasis and I
put on baby oil at least once a day, sometimes several times a day.  If
it is so toxic, why would people be putting it on babies?  Heck, if it
is so toxic, why am I still alive?  How can cooking oil be toxic
either?  I cook with cooking oil and then eat the food I cook with it. 
It may be something but hardly toxic. 

Let's see, baby oil, not toxic, doesn't short out and blow up stuff when
it leaks.  Water, one leak and you could have to buy a new rig.  Cost of
mineral oil versus a new rig.  I don't think that is even close.  lol 
Also, it doesn't have to be a "new" idea to work. 

Just thought it worth a mention.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Sonntag, 11. November 2012, 09:35:35 schrieb Dale:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > Am Samstag, 10. November 2012, 23:46:52 schrieb Dale:
> >> Pandu Poluan wrote:
> >>> Oh, we like digressions :-)
> >>> 
> >>> I recall that sometimes last year, Tom's Hardware tested running a
> >>> system without heat sink... but completely immersed in... cooking oil!
> >>> They made a large acrylic container, poured in gallons of high-quality
> >>> cooking oil, then proceeded to overclock the CPU and GPU to unholy
> >>> frequencies...
> >>> 
> >>> And, IIRC, Seymour Cray likes to use some inert fluoride-based coolant
> >>> to dunk the components of his supercomputer machines. And he would
> >>> even go to lengths to design a "coolant fountain" that's not only
> >>> functional, but also decorative.
> >>> 
> >>>> The only caveat, is to get a cooling system, that is made of robust,
> >>> 
> >>> quality
> >>> 
> >>>> components. Also, monitoring the temperature is important, and it'd be
> >>>> nice to have a micro pressure transmitter, downstream of the pumping
> >>> 
> >>> mechanism
> >>> 
> >>>> to ensure no leaks by detecting tiny leaks BEFORE they happen
> >>>> (delta-P).
> >>> 
> >>> That's the only qualms I have Re: water-coolant. I always an afraid of
> >>> leaks. So, I always wimped out and use the thermal wick kind of
> >>> almost, but not quite, somewhat similar to liquid coolant ;-)
> >>> 
> >>> Rgds,
> >>> --
> >> 
> >> I seen on a show once that they use mineral oil when they put those
> >> robots in deep water.  You know, the ones that are remote controlled and
> >> go VERY VERY deep.  Anyway, they put mineral oil in it because it is not
> >> conductive, transmits heat pretty well and it doesn't let the water
> >> pressure crush the little robot.  It can't crush it since it is full of
> >> a liquid already.
> >> 
> >> If that is true, why not use mineral oil instead of water?  I understand
> >> that could mean a change in hoses and such but still, if they can make
> >> hoses that can stand up to gas and other really nasty stuff then why not
> >> mineral oil too?  At least with that, if you get a leak it won't burn
> >> out your mobo or whatever else it gets on.  It would be messy tho.  o_O
> >> 
> >> Dale
> >> 
> >> :-)  :-)
> > 
> > lets see.. toxic, expensive, has to be recycled...
> > 
> > vs
> > 
> > water...
> > 
> > also, submerging mobos in cooking oil is nothing new nor special. It
> > smells
> > horrible after a while and any change is fucking time consuming (and
> > dirty).
> I didn't say to use cooking oil, I said to use mineral oil.  Also, how
> is mineral oil toxic?  Baby oil is mineral oil.  I have psoriasis and I
> put on baby oil at least once a day, sometimes several times a day.  If
> it is so toxic, why would people be putting it on babies?  Heck, if it
> is so toxic, why am I still alive?  How can cooking oil be toxic
> either?  I cook with cooking oil and then eat the food I cook with it.
> It may be something but hardly toxic.
> 
> Let's see, baby oil, not toxic, doesn't short out and blow up stuff when
> it leaks.  Water, one leak and you could have to buy a new rig.  Cost of
> mineral oil versus a new rig.  I don't think that is even close.  lol
> Also, it doesn't have to be a "new" idea to work.
> 
> Just thought it worth a mention.
> 
> Dale

and since baby oil is so great for the job we use it as lubcritant and for 
cooling in engines....
> 
> :-)  :-)
-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Marc Joliet]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3489 bytes --]

Am Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:35:35 -0600
schrieb Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>:

> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > Am Samstag, 10. November 2012, 23:46:52 schrieb Dale:
> >> Pandu Poluan wrote:
> >>> Oh, we like digressions :-)
> >>>
> >>> I recall that sometimes last year, Tom's Hardware tested running a
> >>> system without heat sink... but completely immersed in... cooking oil!
> >>> They made a large acrylic container, poured in gallons of high-quality
> >>> cooking oil, then proceeded to overclock the CPU and GPU to unholy
> >>> frequencies...
> >>>
> >>> And, IIRC, Seymour Cray likes to use some inert fluoride-based coolant
> >>> to dunk the components of his supercomputer machines. And he would
> >>> even go to lengths to design a "coolant fountain" that's not only
> >>> functional, but also decorative.
> >>>
> >>>> The only caveat, is to get a cooling system, that is made of robust,
> >>> quality
> >>>
> >>>> components. Also, monitoring the temperature is important, and it'd be
> >>>> nice to have a micro pressure transmitter, downstream of the pumping
> >>> mechanism
> >>>
> >>>> to ensure no leaks by detecting tiny leaks BEFORE they happen (delta-P).
> >>> That's the only qualms I have Re: water-coolant. I always an afraid of
> >>> leaks. So, I always wimped out and use the thermal wick kind of
> >>> almost, but not quite, somewhat similar to liquid coolant ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Rgds,
> >>> --
> >> I seen on a show once that they use mineral oil when they put those
> >> robots in deep water.  You know, the ones that are remote controlled and
> >> go VERY VERY deep.  Anyway, they put mineral oil in it because it is not
> >> conductive, transmits heat pretty well and it doesn't let the water
> >> pressure crush the little robot.  It can't crush it since it is full of
> >> a liquid already.
> >>
> >> If that is true, why not use mineral oil instead of water?  I understand
> >> that could mean a change in hoses and such but still, if they can make
> >> hoses that can stand up to gas and other really nasty stuff then why not
> >> mineral oil too?  At least with that, if you get a leak it won't burn
> >> out your mobo or whatever else it gets on.  It would be messy tho.  o_O
> >>
> >> Dale
> >>
> >> :-)  :-)
> > lets see.. toxic, expensive, has to be recycled...
> >
> > vs
> >
> > water...
> >
> > also, submerging mobos in cooking oil is nothing new nor special. It smells 
> > horrible after a while and any change is fucking time consuming (and dirty).
> >
> 
> I didn't say to use cooking oil, I said to use mineral oil.  Also, how
> is mineral oil toxic?
[...]

I wasn't sure what he meant, either, although looking it up, it seems that the
term "mineral oil" basically means "a petroleum based oil". In fact, according
to Wikipedia [0], that holds even for the food product "mineral oil"
- which, according to the same article (see "Food preparation"), is forbidden
in the EU (at least in food products).

However, in medical products mineral oil is apparently held to strict standards
and translates to "Weißöl". So it seems your baby oil is fine, but the cooking
oil I'm not so sure about.

(And here I thought mineral oil was something akin to vegetable oil and that
it just had a weird name.)

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil

-- 
Marc Joliet
--
"People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know we
don't" - Bjarne Stroustrup

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[gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-11-11, Pandu Poluan <pandu@poluan.info> wrote:

> And, IIRC, Seymour Cray likes to use some inert fluoride-based coolant to
> dunk the components of his supercomputer machines. And he would even go to
> lengths to design a "coolant fountain" that's not only functional, but also
> decorative.

Back in the 80's one of the local supercomputer companies (ETA
Systems) built (and actually sold) machines which used CMOS CPU boards
that ran submerged in liquid nitrogen.  IIRC, they ran at around
150MHz and achieved 10 GFLOPS which was pretty amazing at the time...

However, the system software was crap.  Like Cray, ETA was a CDC
spin-off and AFAICT, all CDC system software was awful. In any case,
the product was a commercial failure.  I heard through the grapevine
that maintenance was a headache, and lots of boards failed due to
thermal stress when they were taken in/out of the LN2.

> That's the only qualms I have Re: water-coolant. I always an afraid
> of leaks. So, I always wimped out and use the thermal wick kind of
> almost, but not quite, somewhat similar to liquid coolant ;-)

One of the nice things about LN2 is that it doesn't make such a mess
when there's a leak. :)

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> and since baby oil is so great for the job we use it as lubcritant and
> for cooling in engines.... 

I was trying to overcome the problem that water causes things to short
out when it leaks on a mobo, something mineral oil doesn't do according
to what I have read.  I never said it was the world's greatest heat
conductor. 


Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

Marc Joliet wrote:
> I wasn't sure what he meant, either, although looking it up, it seems
> that the term "mineral oil" basically means "a petroleum based oil".
> In fact, according to Wikipedia [0], that holds even for the food
> product "mineral oil" - which, according to the same article (see
> "Food preparation"), is forbidden in the EU (at least in food
> products). However, in medical products mineral oil is apparently held
> to strict standards and translates to "Weißöl". So it seems your baby
> oil is fine, but the cooking oil I'm not so sure about. (And here I
> thought mineral oil was something akin to vegetable oil and that it
> just had a weird name.) [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_oil 

I just looked at the bottle I use.  ;-)  The only ingredients is mineral
oil and fragrance.  I wouldn't put that in a computer but you can buy
pure mineral oil off the internet.  I don't like the smell anyway.  lol 
I have also seen it on the shelf as a laxative too.  I've never used it
for that either.  I just know it helps keep my skin from drying out
since I have severe psoriasis among other issues. 

I wouldn't cook with mineral oil tho.  Yikes.  lol   That even sounds
nasty there. 

I'm not sure I would put cooking oil in a puter either tho it may work. 
I dunno about that tho.  I just remember them using mineral oil in those
very expensive undersea robots.  Some of those cost millions of dollars
and I figure they wouldn't put mineral oil in there if it is going to
burn out something.  That would overcome the problem of a bad short and
possible smoke if water leaks on the mobo in a water cooled system.  It
does introduce other issues but that is true of most things.  Fix one
problem, create another.  Nothing is perfect. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Sonntag, 11. November 2012, 12:15:14 schrieb Dale:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > and since baby oil is so great for the job we use it as lubcritant and
> > for cooling in engines....
> 
> I was trying to overcome the problem that water causes things to short
> out when it leaks on a mobo, something mineral oil doesn't do according
> to what I have read.  I never said it was the world's greatest heat
> conductor.

ever heard of 'transformer oil'?

for some reason or another they move away from mineral oil...

-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1343 bytes --]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 11. November 2012, 12:15:14 schrieb Dale:
>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>> and since baby oil is so great for the job we use it as lubcritant and
>>> for cooling in engines....
>> I was trying to overcome the problem that water causes things to short
>> out when it leaks on a mobo, something mineral oil doesn't do according
>> to what I have read.  I never said it was the world's greatest heat
>> conductor.
> ever heard of 'transformer oil'?
>
> for some reason or another they move away from mineral oil...
>

I have heard of it.  It appears that it is mineral oil also. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_oil

"Transformer oil or insulating oil is usually a highly-refined mineral
oilthat is stable at high temperatures and has excellent electrical
insulating properties."

I'm not saying that every single transformer out there has mineral oil
in it but according to that, it is still in common use.  Also, according
to that it also does the job of removing the heat from the transformer
too.  If you want, watch this video.  You can see how they are made from
start to finish, including the mineral oil fill up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUO3o5JTGhQ

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!


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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Sonntag, 11. November 2012, 15:06:12 schrieb Dale:
> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > Am Sonntag, 11. November 2012, 12:15:14 schrieb Dale:
> >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> >>> and since baby oil is so great for the job we use it as lubcritant and
> >>> for cooling in engines....
> >> 
> >> I was trying to overcome the problem that water causes things to short
> >> out when it leaks on a mobo, something mineral oil doesn't do according
> >> to what I have read.  I never said it was the world's greatest heat
> >> conductor.
> > 
> > ever heard of 'transformer oil'?
> > 
> > for some reason or another they move away from mineral oil...
> 
> I have heard of it.  It appears that it is mineral oil also.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_oil
> 
> "Transformer oil or insulating oil is usually a highly-refined mineral
> oilthat is stable at high temperatures and has excellent electrical
> insulating properties."
> 
> I'm not saying that every single transformer out there has mineral oil
> in it but according to that, it is still in common use.  Also, according
> to that it also does the job of removing the heat from the transformer
> too.  If you want, watch this video.  You can see how they are made from
> start to finish, including the mineral oil fill up.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUO3o5JTGhQ

and the oil is very toxic and as I wrote earlier mineral oil is replaced with 
other coolants. For some very good reasons.
...

-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 11. November 2012, 15:06:12 schrieb Dale:
>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>> Am Sonntag, 11. November 2012, 12:15:14 schrieb Dale:
>>>> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>>>> and since baby oil is so great for the job we use it as lubcritant and
>>>>> for cooling in engines....
>>>> I was trying to overcome the problem that water causes things to short
>>>> out when it leaks on a mobo, something mineral oil doesn't do according
>>>> to what I have read.  I never said it was the world's greatest heat
>>>> conductor.
>>> ever heard of 'transformer oil'?
>>>
>>> for some reason or another they move away from mineral oil...
>> I have heard of it.  It appears that it is mineral oil also.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformer_oil
>>
>> "Transformer oil or insulating oil is usually a highly-refined mineral
>> oilthat is stable at high temperatures and has excellent electrical
>> insulating properties."
>>
>> I'm not saying that every single transformer out there has mineral oil
>> in it but according to that, it is still in common use.  Also, according
>> to that it also does the job of removing the heat from the transformer
>> too.  If you want, watch this video.  You can see how they are made from
>> start to finish, including the mineral oil fill up.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUO3o5JTGhQ
> and the oil is very toxic and as I wrote earlier mineral oil is replaced with 
> other coolants. For some very good reasons.
> ...
>

Again, I use mineral oil every day.  How can it be toxic when I put it
on my skin?  I might add, my Doctor knows I put it on and he has never
mentioned it being toxic.  Also, baby oil is mineral oil plus
fragrances, which is what I use daily.  I can send you a picture of one
of my baby oil bottles if you want to see it for yourself.  Maybe seeing
is believing? 

If you watch the video I linked to, you will see they put in mineral
oil.  They didn't say they put in a alternative to mineral oil.  They
even pull a vacuum on the transformer can to make sure it doesn't leave
any moisture or air bubbles in it.  I watch that show on TV often and I
feel quite certain they would not show that if it were not true and
accurate. 

I'm sorry but I'm going with the info I know to be more accurate. 
Watching that video says a lot.  I'm sure there are other things that
can be used but the point is, mineral oil is in common use and has been
for a long time.  It also doesn't cause shortages when it leaks either
which water does.  That's why I'm not putting water near my computer,
cooling or otherwise. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

[gentoo-user] Even further OT: new system hardware

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday 11 November 2012 16:39:56 Grant Edwards wrote:

> AFAICT, all CDC system software was awful.

I hope that isn't entirely true, because of this little tale.

Some years ago Empros (another CDC company, in Plymouth, MN) had a large 
fraction of the world's electricity grid control market sewn up - until 
their marketing department committed them to a contract they couldn't 
possibly survive: they wanted the British grid system as a feather in 
their cap (remember CEGB, anyone?) and assumed that they could profit 
from the same old feature creep as they had everywhere else. Fatal 
mistake, which cost them (I think) $36m in mainframe hardware upgrades 
alone. They should have read our functional spec properly. ("When I hit 
the Go button the effect must be shown on-screen within one second.") The 
change-control board, constituted at Director level, considered just 12 
changes, each costed and rubber-stamped. Everything else had to be 
fulfilled in the contract.

How many computer systems use 10 programming languages? Just don't ask 
me to list them after all this time.

I'm sure Empros's systems must still be keeping lights on to this day in 
many parts of the world.

Just goes to show - choose your marketing people very carefully.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-11-11, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> I'm not saying that every single transformer out there has mineral
>>> oil in it but according to that, it is still in common use.  Also,
>>> according to that it also does the job of removing the heat from the
>>> transformer too.  If you want, watch this video.  You can see how
>>> they are made from start to finish, including the mineral oil fill
>>> up.
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUO3o5JTGhQ
>>> and the oil is very toxic and as I wrote earlier mineral oil is
>>> replaced with other coolants. For some very good reasons. ...
>
> Again, I use mineral oil every day.  How can it be toxic when I put
> it on my skin?

"Mineral Oil" is a vague term and is used to refer to a wide range of
substances.

For many years, the stuff they used in transformers was high in PCBs
and was based on a type "mineral oil" different than what you're
using.

> I might add, my Doctor knows I put it on and he has never
> mentioned it being toxic.

The stuff you're using isn't toxic.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Dale]

Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-11-11, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>> I'm not saying that every single transformer out there has mineral
>>>> oil in it but according to that, it is still in common use.  Also,
>>>> according to that it also does the job of removing the heat from the
>>>> transformer too.  If you want, watch this video.  You can see how
>>>> they are made from start to finish, including the mineral oil fill
>>>> up.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUO3o5JTGhQ
>>>> and the oil is very toxic and as I wrote earlier mineral oil is
>>>> replaced with other coolants. For some very good reasons. ...
>> Again, I use mineral oil every day.  How can it be toxic when I put
>> it on my skin?
> "Mineral Oil" is a vague term and is used to refer to a wide range of
> substances.
>
> For many years, the stuff they used in transformers was high in PCBs
> and was based on a type "mineral oil" different than what you're
> using.
>
>> I might add, my Doctor knows I put it on and he has never
>> mentioned it being toxic.
> The stuff you're using isn't toxic.
>

But it is still being used and according to the wiki, it is *highly
refined* mineral oil.  While startpaging around, I found that they
refine it more and remove the bad stuff, PCB's and such, so that it
isn't toxic or anything.  They changed that way back in the 70's or
80's.  The posts from Volker imply that it is not used anymore but it
is.  I posted a link that says it is and a video of how the transformers
are still being made today.  Heck, I even found a company that currently
makes the transformer oil.  If no one is using mineral oil like Volker
implies then why do they still make it? 

Point is, they still use mineral oil in transformers and it serves two
functions.  It removes heat and acts as a insulator.  Both of those are
good things as opposed to water and a computer motherboard.  Spill water
on a mobo, buy a new mobo.  Spill mineral oil on a mobo, just clean up
the mess.  Given the cost of a mobo, CPU, and anything else that could
be ruined, I'd prefer mineral oil over water.  So, I'm still not putting
water in my puter. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

and now you are playing dumb.

As I wrote earlier, you can't compare your baby oil with coolant oil.

One is specifically made to be none toxic. The other one to be a good coolant.

And just because there is a video of a transformer being filled with mineral 
oil based coolant does not change the fact that more and more transformers are 
filled with non-oil coolants.

Baby oil, good for your skin, but not good as a coolant. Transformer oil, good 
coolant, but don't get it on your skin.

Just because something is mineral oil based does not make it:
toxic
a good lubricant
a good coolant
fluid at room temperature
none toxic
good for your skin
bad for your skin

And for fuck's sake, don't drink it.

Got it?
-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Peter Humphrey]

On Monday 12 November 2012 17:39:15 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:

> ... more and more transformers are filled with non-oil coolants.

That's interesting - what other substances are used instead these days? 
In my day we had nothing but mineral oil.

-- 
Rgds
Peter

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

Am Montag, 12. November 2012, 23:03:08 schrieb Peter Humphrey:
> On Monday 12 November 2012 17:39:15 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
> > ... more and more transformers are filled with non-oil coolants.
> 
> That's interesting - what other substances are used instead these days?
> In my day we had nothing but mineral oil.

ethers?

-- 
#163933

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: new system hardware

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-11-13, Volker Armin Hemmann <volkerarmin@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Am Montag, 12. November 2012, 23:03:08 schrieb Peter Humphrey:
>> On Monday 12 November 2012 17:39:15 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>> > ... more and more transformers are filled with non-oil coolants.
>> 
>> That's interesting - what other substances are used instead these days?
>> In my day we had nothing but mineral oil.
>
> ethers?

silicone

fluorocarbons (dunno which ones)

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Jesuit priests are
                                  at               DATING CAREER DIPLOMATS!!
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