[gentoo-user] No more FLASH on Linux ?

[gentoo-user] No more FLASH on Linux ?

[James]

Adobe has announce no more Flash on Linux.

What the the (gentoo) plan for those of us that want
to still view websites that use FLASH from a gentoo
workstation (besides using chrome)?


What are the work arounds for web surfing without 
FLASH support?

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA2MDc


James

[gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 23/02/12 22:49, James wrote:
> Adobe has announce no more Flash on Linux.
>
> What the the (gentoo) plan for those of us that want
> to still view websites that use FLASH from a gentoo
> workstation (besides using chrome)?
>
> What are the work arounds for web surfing without
> FLASH support?
>
> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA2MDc

We will have to worry about this in 5 years, since the Phoronix title is 
a bit misleading.  The real news is "no more Flash on Linux in 5 years". 
  Adobe will support the current version of Flash for 5 years on Linux.

Also, maybe other browsers will adopt the Pepper API.  If yes, we will 
be able to run Google's version of Flash on browsers other than Chrome.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Philip Webb]

120223 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 23/02/12 22:49, James wrote:
>> Adobe has announce no more Flash on Linux.
> The real news is "no more Flash on Linux in 5 years". 

Isn't HTML 5 due to replace Flash long before then ?

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

[gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 24/02/12 05:22, Philip Webb wrote:
> 120223 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 23/02/12 22:49, James wrote:
>>> Adobe has announce no more Flash on Linux.
>> The real news is "no more Flash on Linux in 5 years".
>
> Isn't HTML 5 due to replace Flash long before then ?

It's not compatible with Flash, so no; it can never truly replace it. It 
can be used as an alternative though. It's just like with Linux vs 
Windows. Linux cannot replace Windows. It's an alternative.

My guess is that Flash will remain very popular in the next 5 years, but 
HTML 5 will see increased use.  I don't refer to video here, but to web 
applications.  Video will probably keep Flash alive for a very long 
time, since HTML5 leaves it up to the browser what video formats the 
user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a 
PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works 
is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[pk]

On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a
> PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works
> is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.

It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty much
"guaranteed" with current browsers.
I know I may be in the minority here but flash is coming no where near
my computers, nor the ones I support (my mother etc.).

Best regards

Peter K

[gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 24/02/12 07:02, pk wrote:
> On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a
>> PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works
>> is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.
>
> It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty much
> "guaranteed" with current browsers.

Flash has about 95% coverage.  That means virtually everyone has it 
installed.  HTML5 on the other hand does not guarantee video playback. 
If you're on Firefox for example, it won't play MPEG video, but will 
play Theora.  If you're on IE or Safari, it won't play Theora but will 
play MPEG.

With Flash, you *know* that it will play your video.  You don't have to 
like it, but it's a fact; an important one.  Yeah, I know, sucks for 
Linux which has poor Flash support, but what can you do?  This is a 
reality and you can't blame people for choosing the safe bet.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Mick]

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On Friday 24 Feb 2012 07:30:01 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 24/02/12 07:02, pk wrote:
> > On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a
> >> PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works
> >> is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.
> > 
> > It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty much
> > "guaranteed" with current browsers.
> 
> Flash has about 95% coverage.  That means virtually everyone has it
> installed.  HTML5 on the other hand does not guarantee video playback.
> If you're on Firefox for example, it won't play MPEG video, but will
> play Theora.  If you're on IE or Safari, it won't play Theora but will
> play MPEG.
> 
> With Flash, you *know* that it will play your video.  You don't have to
> like it, but it's a fact; an important one.  Yeah, I know, sucks for
> Linux which has poor Flash support, but what can you do?  This is a
> reality and you can't blame people for choosing the safe bet.

The thing is that apple smartphones and tablets do not offer flash.  Desktop 
volumes are in decline, while smartphones and tablets sales are increasing.  
This could be seasonal of course, but if the future moves away from the flash 
capable desktop, then flash will become increasingly obsolete.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[james]

Mick <michaelkintzios <at> gmail.com> writes:


> The thing is that apple smartphones and tablets do not offer flash.  Desktop 
> volumes are in decline, while smartphones and tablets sales are increasing.  
> This could be seasonal of course, but if the future moves away from the flash 
> capable desktop, then flash will become increasingly obsolete.

I sympathize with where you are headed. But reality is FLASH is very
entrenched. Numerous sites, that I have no choice but to use, use
FLASH in a centric role. This is going to force folks to have a 
doz system for reliable access. Hopefully by then Windos.x will be
easily setup in a VM on Linux, so the requisite browser can be 
launched therein..... or some solution.

For example, much of the State of Florida's online  education 
offered  requires FLASH. No amount of complaints will
change that. No other alternatives. You cannot just 'will' 
away Flash, imho. 

Thanks to all for the input, as I shall just 'wait and see'...


James

[gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-02-24, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> On 24/02/12 07:02, pk wrote:
>> On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>
>>> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a
>>> PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works
>>> is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.
>>
>> It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty much
>> "guaranteed" with current browsers.
>
> Flash has about 95% coverage.
> That means virtually everyone has it installed.

That's hard to believe.  The number of iPads and and iPhones out there
is getting pretty high, and they don't have flash and never will.

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Go on, EMOTE!
                                  at               I was RAISED on thought
                              gmail.com            balloons!!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Mick]

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On Friday 24 Feb 2012 14:13:29 james wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > The thing is that apple smartphones and tablets do not offer flash. 
> > Desktop volumes are in decline, while smartphones and tablets sales are
> > increasing. This could be seasonal of course, but if the future moves
> > away from the flash capable desktop, then flash will become increasingly
> > obsolete.
> 
> I sympathize with where you are headed. But reality is FLASH is very
> entrenched. Numerous sites, that I have no choice but to use, use
> FLASH in a centric role. This is going to force folks to have a
> doz system for reliable access. Hopefully by then Windos.x will be
> easily setup in a VM on Linux, so the requisite browser can be
> launched therein..... or some solution.
> 
> For example, much of the State of Florida's online  education
> offered  requires FLASH. No amount of complaints will
> change that. No other alternatives. You cannot just 'will'
> away Flash, imho.
> 
> Thanks to all for the input, as I shall just 'wait and see'...

If you go back a few years there was no flash.  Then flash arrived and some web 
designers went mad at creating flash-only websites.  Very very poor google 
rankings was not a problem for them, as long as the site looked errrm ... 
flash?  Ha, ha!

Then common sense followed where by flash elements were added, but websites 
retained (X)HTML, CSS and javascript.

In the future it is likely that HTML5, continuously improving javascript 
functionality and perhaps some new technology will render flash redundant;  but 
I agree with you that this won't likely happen overnight.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[William Kenworthy]

On Fri, 2012-02-24 at 15:35 +0000, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-02-24, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> > On 24/02/12 07:02, pk wrote:
> >> On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>
> >>> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a
> >>> PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works
> >>> is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.
> >>
> >> It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty much
> >> "guaranteed" with current browsers.
> >
> > Flash has about 95% coverage.
> > That means virtually everyone has it installed.
> 
> That's hard to believe.  The number of iPads and and iPhones out there
> is getting pretty high, and they don't have flash and never will.
> 

Work supplied an ipad for me - what a pain.  So many sites use flash its
relegated to "toy" status even for web browsing.  For my Cisco
Netacademy work Ive installed win7 in qemu and access via rdp so I can
use view flash, webinars etc.  On a recent trip to Europe we took my
wifes ipad and at the last minute added my old sony vaio (gentoo) laptop
to the luggage - as well we did or we would have been stranded - so many
booking/travel information sites use flash ...

Reality is (for us) we cant do without being able to view flash content.

BillK

[gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 24/02/12 17:35, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-02-24, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de>  wrote:
>> On 24/02/12 07:02, pk wrote:
>>> On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>
>>>> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a
>>>> PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works
>>>> is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.
>>>
>>> It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty much
>>> "guaranteed" with current browsers.
>>
>> Flash has about 95% coverage.
>> That means virtually everyone has it installed.
>
> That's hard to believe.  The number of iPads and and iPhones out there
> is getting pretty high, and they don't have flash and never will.

In PCs, not other machines.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Pandu Poluan]

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On Feb 25, 2012 4:54 AM, "William Kenworthy" <billk@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>
---- >8 snip
>
> Work supplied an ipad for me - what a pain.  So many sites use flash its
> relegated to "toy" status even for web browsing.  For my Cisco
> Netacademy work Ive installed win7 in qemu and access via rdp so I can
> use view flash, webinars etc.  On a recent trip to Europe we took my
> wifes ipad and at the last minute added my old sony vaio (gentoo) laptop
> to the luggage - as well we did or we would have been stranded - so many
> booking/travel information sites use flash ...
>
> Reality is (for us) we cant do without being able to view flash content.
>
> BillK

True, that.

That's why I prefer Android tablets to iPads.

Rgds,

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[gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-02-25, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> On 24/02/12 17:35, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2012-02-24, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de>  wrote:
>>> On 24/02/12 07:02, pk wrote:
>>>> On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a
>>>>> PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works
>>>>> is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.
>>>>
>>>> It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty much
>>>> "guaranteed" with current browsers.
>>>
>>> Flash has about 95% coverage.
>>> That means virtually everyone has it installed.
>>
>> That's hard to believe.  The number of iPads and and iPhones out there
>> is getting pretty high, and they don't have flash and never will.
>
> In PCs, not other machines.

Why the restriction to PCs?  Web designers and website owners don't
care about PCs.  They care about browsers and eyballs.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Michael Hampicke]

> I know I may be in the minority here but flash is coming no where near
> my computers, nor the ones I support (my mother etc.).

I offer no solution to what about to do in 5 years when there's no more
flash support on linux.

But I'd like to take this opportunity to say: _I hope flash dies
painfully and rots in hell!_ I'll be passing around virtual bottles of
beer to everyone when it's finally dead.

[gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 25/02/12 16:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2012-02-25, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de>  wrote:
>> On 24/02/12 17:35, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> On 2012-02-24, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de>   wrote:
>>>> On 24/02/12 07:02, pk wrote:
>>>>> On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a
>>>>>> PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works
>>>>>> is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty much
>>>>> "guaranteed" with current browsers.
>>>>
>>>> Flash has about 95% coverage.
>>>> That means virtually everyone has it installed.
>>>
>>> That's hard to believe.  The number of iPads and and iPhones out there
>>> is getting pretty high, and they don't have flash and never will.
>>
>> In PCs, not other machines.
>
> Why the restriction to PCs?  Web designers and website owners don't
> care about PCs.  They care about browsers and eyballs.

PC users have browsers.  95% of those browsers have Flash.

I think this is pretty easy to understand.  Perhaps it's a language 
barrier and I have trouble expressing myself clearly?

[gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Grant Edwards]

On 2012-02-25, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> On 25/02/12 16:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2012-02-25, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de>  wrote:
>>> On 24/02/12 17:35, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>>> On 2012-02-24, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de>   wrote:
>>>>> On 24/02/12 07:02, pk wrote:
>>>>>> On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web designers that a
>>>>>>> PC user can watch their videos. Having a guarantee that something works
>>>>>>> is a very powerful incentive; you do not abandon something that works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty much
>>>>>> "guaranteed" with current browsers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Flash has about 95% coverage.
>>>>> That means virtually everyone has it installed.
>>>>
>>>> That's hard to believe.  The number of iPads and and iPhones out there
>>>> is getting pretty high, and they don't have flash and never will.
>>>
>>> In PCs, not other machines.
>>
>> Why the restriction to PCs?  Web designers and website owners don't
>> care about PCs.  They care about browsers and eyballs.
>
> PC users have browsers.  95% of those browsers have Flash.

But your original statement was about "everyone".  "Everyone" isn't
limited to PCs.  It includes iPads and iPods and iPhones.  There are
10's of millions of those out there, and they don't have flash.

> I think this is pretty easy to understand.  Perhaps it's a language 
> barrier and I have trouble expressing myself clearly?

I guess to me "everyone" is a more inclusive term.

-- 
Grant

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: No more FLASH on Linux ?

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 00:32:33 +0000 (UTC)
Grant Edwards <grant.b.edwards@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2012-02-25, Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> wrote:
> > On 25/02/12 16:48, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2012-02-25, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de>  wrote:
> >>> On 24/02/12 17:35, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >>>> On 2012-02-24, Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de>   wrote:
> >>>>> On 24/02/12 07:02, pk wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2012-02-24 05:15, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> user can watch. Flash on the other hand guarantees web
> >>>>>>> designers that a PC user can watch their videos. Having a
> >>>>>>> guarantee that something works is a very powerful incentive;
> >>>>>>> you do not abandon something that works.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's only guaranteed if flash is installed. HTML5 is pretty
> >>>>>> much "guaranteed" with current browsers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Flash has about 95% coverage.
> >>>>> That means virtually everyone has it installed.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's hard to believe.  The number of iPads and and iPhones out
> >>>> there is getting pretty high, and they don't have flash and
> >>>> never will.
> >>>
> >>> In PCs, not other machines.
> >>
> >> Why the restriction to PCs?  Web designers and website owners don't
> >> care about PCs.  They care about browsers and eyballs.
> >
> > PC users have browsers.  95% of those browsers have Flash.
> 
> But your original statement was about "everyone".  "Everyone" isn't
> limited to PCs.  It includes iPads and iPods and iPhones.  There are
> 10's of millions of those out there, and they don't have flash.
> 
> > I think this is pretty easy to understand.  Perhaps it's a language 
> > barrier and I have trouble expressing myself clearly?
> 
> I guess to me "everyone" is a more inclusive term.
> 

The majority of sites running Flash were set up when iPads were just a
glint in Steve's eyes and the total market for non-Windows non-PC
browser platforms was too small to be relevant. Changing those sites is
not easy or simple.

So while it's perfectly true that there are now lots of non-flash
platforms out there, there's also this thing called "cultural inertia"
meaning that so much of the web still treats the web as being a place
where Flash has almost universal penetration

It's quite valid to mention "everyone" in this context, just realise
that it's used idiomatically (like almost every other word in
English...)

-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com