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* [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3]
  2013-02-12 20:26       ` Randy Barlow
@ 2013-02-13  3:23         ` walt
  2013-02-13  4:13           ` Canek Peláez Valdés
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: walt @ 2013-02-13  3:23 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 02/12/2013 12:26 PM, Randy Barlow wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jan 2013, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
>> GNOME 3.6 is not masked in Gentoo, just keyworded.
> 
> Apologies for the slight thread hijack, but I've been curious if anyone
> knows the current state of Gnome 3 in Gentoo?

Heh.  That's a complicated question, and I'm ready to give you a complicated
answer but I probably can't stay awake that long :)

Most important:  are you ready to suffer long hours of learning/debugging/hair-
pulling/screaming to help guide the future of gnome3?  Big question, and I'm
still trying to decide for myself after months of not deciding :)

I loved gnome2 and I wish for the good old days because every step the gnome3
devs have taken is a mystery to me.  They probably have a grand vision for the
future of the gnome desktop, but it's been nothing but a PITA for me because
along the way they've removed some features from apps that I use everyday for
important stuff like, scheduling/keeping appointments on time, etc.

In my arrogant opinion, gnome3 is betaware (just-barely-beyond-alphaware) and
you should 'up'grade only if you're willing to live with that excitement.

One little tidbit of good news (IMO) is that the gnome3 devs have decided to
maintain a 'legacy' gnome desktop for those of us who don't like gnome-shell,
which I definitely don't (but Canek definitely does).

I suggest you try the latest gnome3 liveCD in a virtual machine so you don't
have to risk your current gnome2 install.

It's a big step, and one you may want to postpone if you're not ready for
hard work and big headaches.

IOW, try gnome3 on a virtual machine first :)




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3]
  2013-02-13  3:23         ` [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3] walt
@ 2013-02-13  4:13           ` Canek Peláez Valdés
  2013-02-13 10:39             ` Alan McKinnon
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Canek Peláez Valdés @ 2013-02-13  4:13 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 9:23 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
> IOW, try gnome3 on a virtual machine first :)

I think it would be easier if you tried a LiveCD:

http://www.gnome.org/getting-gnome/

For what is worth, I find myself more productive and much more at ease
with GNOME 3 than with GNOME 2 (or any other desktop, for that
matter). Every desktop/laptop computer I put my hands on, the first
thing I try to do is to press the windows key to get the overview;
it's really disappointing when it doesn't work and I realize I'm not
using GNOME 3.

I suggest to try the LiveCD; Walt seems to hate the shell and I love
it, but that's because is a matter of personal opinion. I hate KDE
(all four versions); that doesn't mean it's bad software, or that it
has the wrong design. It's just not for me.

Try it for a couple of weeks, and then decide if you want to try it;
we on the list can help you to get the keyworded version installed.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3]
@ 2013-02-13  6:23 Randy Barlow
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Randy Barlow @ 2013-02-13  6:23 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

Thanks for the reply! I agree that it is complicated, and that the direction of Gnome is mysterious. I've been using it at work, and I've enjoyed some things about it. Some other choices are puzzling. I'm interested to stick around to see where it will go.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3]
  2013-02-13  4:13           ` Canek Peláez Valdés
@ 2013-02-13 10:39             ` Alan McKinnon
  2013-02-13 11:36               ` [gentoo-user] " Stroller
  2013-02-13 18:23               ` Yohan Pereira
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Alan McKinnon @ 2013-02-13 10:39 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 13/02/2013 06:13, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 9:23 PM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>> IOW, try gnome3 on a virtual machine first :)
> 
> I think it would be easier if you tried a LiveCD:
> 
> http://www.gnome.org/getting-gnome/
> 
> For what is worth, I find myself more productive and much more at ease
> with GNOME 3 than with GNOME 2 (or any other desktop, for that
> matter). Every desktop/laptop computer I put my hands on, the first
> thing I try to do is to press the windows key to get the overview;
> it's really disappointing when it doesn't work and I realize I'm not
> using GNOME 3.
> 
> I suggest to try the LiveCD; Walt seems to hate the shell and I love
> it, but that's because is a matter of personal opinion. I hate KDE
> (all four versions); that doesn't mean it's bad software, or that it
> has the wrong design. It's just not for me.


Purely out of morbid curiosity, I've just spent an hour playing with the
Gnome 3 LiveCd in a VM.

What I'm seeing is a KDE4 ripoff, done badly, plus a few MacOS-isms and
some ideas from Unity:

- Highly generic launcher on the left, just like Unity.
- Click something, get big list of launchable apps in big "area" in
middle of screen, just like Unity.
- Go to settings, hey this looks *exactly* like KDE4 SystemSettings with
the useful stuff removed. Even the icon is the same!
- Contacts and IM settings integrated into the system just like KDE (but
actually that might be more Telepathy than KDE)
- Menu seems to magically morph into system taskbar, sort of like MacOS

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I really do not see the
point of Gnome3 at all. It has no identity of its own apart from the
recognizable icon set, that covers some of the look. The feel is as I
said very much copying KDE and some MacOS (just not enough MacOS to get
sued by Apple).

So what's the point of Gnome3?

If people like the Unity-ish bits, they should run Unity. Same with the
KDE and MacOS bits.

I'm happy to be shown to be wrong and to be shown where Gnome3 has merit
for being itself, where it can proudly stand on it's own. But I'm just
not seeing it yet


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckinnon@gmail.com



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3]
  2013-02-13 12:23                 ` Alan McKinnon
@ 2013-02-13 14:12                   ` walt
  2013-02-13 17:32                     ` Paul Hartman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: walt @ 2013-02-13 14:12 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 02/13/2013 04:23 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> All the progress I see from Gnome3 (and I get this only from blog posts
> on the tubes) is that stuff is being ripped out and replaced with mostly
> nothing.

That's exactly my problem with gnome3 in a sentence.  I don't hate gnome-shell
as an interface, I hate it because some important (to me) stuff is missing and
if it's possible to get the missing stuff back, I don't know how to do it.

The gnome3 devs may intend to restore the missing stuff at some point, but I
don't know, and meanwhile I'm frustrated and my attitude is deteriorating.

Heh.  I should just go back to gentoo stable and keep using gnome2 for a year
until I'm ready to be frustrated again -- as I surely will be soon enough.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3]
  2013-02-13 14:12                   ` [gentoo-user] " walt
@ 2013-02-13 17:32                     ` Paul Hartman
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Paul Hartman @ 2013-02-13 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 8:12 AM, walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/13/2013 04:23 AM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> All the progress I see from Gnome3 (and I get this only from blog posts
>> on the tubes) is that stuff is being ripped out and replaced with mostly
>> nothing.
>
> That's exactly my problem with gnome3 in a sentence.  I don't hate gnome-shell
> as an interface, I hate it because some important (to me) stuff is missing and
> if it's possible to get the missing stuff back, I don't know how to do it.
>
> The gnome3 devs may intend to restore the missing stuff at some point, but I
> don't know, and meanwhile I'm frustrated and my attitude is deteriorating.

This is giving me flashbacks to the threads from when KDE4 was first
released, people complaining about missing features from KDE3. A good
time was had by all. At least KDE4 proved that, if you can wait a few
years, most of those beloved features will probably be reimplemented
at some point, maybe. :)


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

* Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3]
  2013-02-13 10:39             ` Alan McKinnon
  2013-02-13 11:36               ` [gentoo-user] " Stroller
@ 2013-02-13 18:23               ` Yohan Pereira
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Yohan Pereira @ 2013-02-13 18:23 UTC (permalink / raw
  To: gentoo-user

On 13/02/13 at 12:39pm, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> Purely out of morbid curiosity, I've just spent an hour playing with the
> Gnome 3 LiveCd in a VM.
> 
> What I'm seeing is a KDE4 ripoff, done badly, plus a few MacOS-isms and
> some ideas from Unity:
> 
> - Highly generic launcher on the left, just like Unity.
> - Click something, get big list of launchable apps in big "area" in
> middle of screen, just like Unity.
> - Go to settings, hey this looks *exactly* like KDE4 SystemSettings with
> the useful stuff removed. Even the icon is the same!
> - Contacts and IM settings integrated into the system just like KDE (but
> actually that might be more Telepathy than KDE)

I think gnome had this before though, empathy predating kde telepathy by
quite some time. Although I have no clue on how things were < kde4. 
The IM chat integreated into the shell thing was the only thing that 
caught my attention in gnome3 the one time I tried it. 

-- 

- Yohan Pereira

The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference
between a mermaid and a seal.
                -- Mark Twain


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2013-02-13 18:20 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2013-02-13  6:23 [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3] Randy Barlow
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-01-30 17:02 [gentoo-user] systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 Stefan G. Weichinger
2013-01-30 17:36 ` Hinnerk van Bruinehsen
2013-01-30 17:48   ` Stefan G. Weichinger
2013-01-30 17:52     ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2013-02-12 20:26       ` Randy Barlow
2013-02-13  3:23         ` [gentoo-user] Re: systemd-197-r1 starts gdm-3.6.2 [now gnome3] walt
2013-02-13  4:13           ` Canek Peláez Valdés
2013-02-13 10:39             ` Alan McKinnon
2013-02-13 11:36               ` [gentoo-user] " Stroller
2013-02-13 12:23                 ` Alan McKinnon
2013-02-13 14:12                   ` [gentoo-user] " walt
2013-02-13 17:32                     ` Paul Hartman
2013-02-13 18:23               ` Yohan Pereira

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