[gentoo-user] I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[gentoo-user] I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Harry Putnam]

I've seen on this group some time back a few ways, or at least more
than 1 as I recall to retain the ability to leave X with
Ctrl+Alt_+BKSPC.

I'm not finding it now readily.  

Can someone tell me where that setting may be made.

If it has something to do with new way of starting X where we don't
need an xorg.conf file... I should say that I still use
/etc/X11/xorg.conf (In case that makes a difference)

I find trying to leave X with the `logout' menu item provided on the
Xfce4 destop, that if X has been running a while is seems to take a
very long time to get out of X that way, and possibly not only long
but even ever, short of:

 kill -TERM `ps wwaux|awk '/X.*\-nolisten tc[p]/{print $2}'`

Or killing the pid some other way.

The Ctrl+alt+bkspc was a much nicer fallback.

[gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 04/19/2010 12:07 AM, Harry Putnam wrote:
> I've seen on this group some time back a few ways, or at least more
> than 1 as I recall to retain the ability to leave X with
> Ctrl+Alt_+BKSPC.
>
> I'm not finding it now readily.
>
> Can someone tell me where that setting may be made.
>
> If it has something to do with new way of starting X where we don't
> need an xorg.conf file... I should say that I still use
> /etc/X11/xorg.conf (In case that makes a difference)
>
> I find trying to leave X with the `logout' menu item provided on the
> Xfce4 destop, that if X has been running a while is seems to take a
> very long time to get out of X that way, and possibly not only long
> but even ever, short of:
>
>   kill -TERM `ps wwaux|awk '/X.*\-nolisten tc[p]/{print $2}'`
>
> Or killing the pid some other way.
>
> The Ctrl+alt+bkspc was a much nicer fallback.

The only way I could find that works was an option for it in KDE4's 
keyboard layout settings.  KDE was nice enough to explain what it is 
doing under the hood though, which is adding:

   -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

to the "setxkbmap" command it uses to apply the keyboard settings.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Mick]

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On Sunday 18 April 2010 22:15:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 04/19/2010 12:07 AM, Harry Putnam wrote:
> > I've seen on this group some time back a few ways, or at least more
> > than 1 as I recall to retain the ability to leave X with
> > Ctrl+Alt_+BKSPC.
> >
> > I'm not finding it now readily.
> >
> > Can someone tell me where that setting may be made.
> >
> > If it has something to do with new way of starting X where we don't
> > need an xorg.conf file... I should say that I still use
> > /etc/X11/xorg.conf (In case that makes a difference)
> >
> > I find trying to leave X with the `logout' menu item provided on the
> > Xfce4 destop, that if X has been running a while is seems to take a
> > very long time to get out of X that way, and possibly not only long
> > but even ever, short of:
> >
> >   kill -TERM `ps wwaux|awk '/X.*\-nolisten tc[p]/{print $2}'`
> >
> > Or killing the pid some other way.
> >
> > The Ctrl+alt+bkspc was a much nicer fallback.
> 
> The only way I could find that works was an option for it in KDE4's
> keyboard layout settings.  KDE was nice enough to explain what it is
> doing under the hood though, which is adding:
> 
>    -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
> 
> to the "setxkbmap" command it uses to apply the keyboard settings.

In your xorg.conf you need:

Section "InputDevice"
  [snip ...]
  Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
EndSection

The 'new' way of setting it up without a xorg.conf file is to set it up in 
your /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi like so:

 <merge key="input.xkb.options" type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>

Read more details here:

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 04/19/2010 12:47 AM, Mick wrote:
> On Sunday 18 April 2010 22:15:34 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 04/19/2010 12:07 AM, Harry Putnam wrote:
>>> I've seen on this group some time back a few ways, or at least more
>>> than 1 as I recall to retain the ability to leave X with
>>> Ctrl+Alt_+BKSPC.
>>>
>>> I'm not finding it now readily.
>>>
>>> Can someone tell me where that setting may be made.
>>>
>>> If it has something to do with new way of starting X where we don't
>>> need an xorg.conf file... I should say that I still use
>>> /etc/X11/xorg.conf (In case that makes a difference)
>>>
>>> I find trying to leave X with the `logout' menu item provided on the
>>> Xfce4 destop, that if X has been running a while is seems to take a
>>> very long time to get out of X that way, and possibly not only long
>>> but even ever, short of:
>>>
>>>    kill -TERM `ps wwaux|awk '/X.*\-nolisten tc[p]/{print $2}'`
>>>
>>> Or killing the pid some other way.
>>>
>>> The Ctrl+alt+bkspc was a much nicer fallback.
>>
>> The only way I could find that works was an option for it in KDE4's
>> keyboard layout settings.  KDE was nice enough to explain what it is
>> doing under the hood though, which is adding:
>>
>>     -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>>
>> to the "setxkbmap" command it uses to apply the keyboard settings.
>
> In your xorg.conf you need:
>
> Section "InputDevice"
>    [snip ...]
>    Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> EndSection
>
> The 'new' way of setting it up without a xorg.conf file is to set it up in
> your /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi like so:
>
>   <merge key="input.xkb.options" type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
>
> Read more details here:
>
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml

HAL is deprecated and will not be supported in X anymore,  so it's not 
the "new" way ;)

[gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Harry Putnam]

Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> writes:

>> Read more details here:
>>
>> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml
>
> HAL is deprecated and will not be supported in X anymore,  so it's not
> the "new" way ;)

Well, its just not the NEWEST way.  But what is the newest (post hal)
way?   And will the xorg.conf technique work anyway?

[gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Harry Putnam]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> writes:
>
>>> Read more details here:
>>>
>>> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml
>>
>> HAL is deprecated and will not be supported in X anymore,  so it's not
>> the "new" way ;)
>
> Well, its just not the NEWEST way.  But what is the newest (post hal)
> way?   And will the xorg.conf technique work anyway?

I should have mentioned that after posting the OP, I discovered I've
had that stanza in xorg.conf for mnths... I forgot I had taken it from
a post by Florien P., but I do not get the use of Ctrl+alt+bkspk to
quit X. 

I guess it works for you though eh, Mick?
-------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      -------- 
From xorg.conf:

Section "InputDevice"

    Identifier "Keyboard1"
    Driver  "kbd"
# [HP 100709_111603 From post on gentoo.user
## From: Florian Philipp <lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net>
## Subject: Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess
## Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:22:46 +0200
## Message-ID: <4ACB7CE6.10704@f_philipp.fastmail.net>
## Restablishes Ctrl-Alt-Bkspc to quit X
    Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
# ]
    Option "AutoRepeat" "500 30"
    Option "XkbRules"   "xorg"
    Option "XkbModel"   "pc104"
    Option "XkbLayout"  "us"

EndSection

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Mick]

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On Monday 19 April 2010 01:28:00 Harry Putnam wrote:

> I should have mentioned that after posting the OP, I discovered I've
> had that stanza in xorg.conf for mnths... I forgot I had taken it from
> a post by Florien P., but I do not get the use of Ctrl+alt+bkspk to
> quit X.
> 
> I guess it works for you though eh, Mick?
> -------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      --------
> From xorg.conf:
> 
> Section "InputDevice"
> 
>     Identifier "Keyboard1"
>     Driver  "kbd"
> # [HP 100709_111603 From post on gentoo.user
> ## From: Florian Philipp <lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net>
> ## Subject: Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess
> ## Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:22:46 +0200
> ## Message-ID: <4ACB7CE6.10704@f_philipp.fastmail.net>
> ## Restablishes Ctrl-Alt-Bkspc to quit X
>     Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

I do not use xorg.conf anymore to be honest.  I do however (still) use hal and 
the stanza recommended works for me.

If you are using hal then it may be an idea to try to use the fdi files to 
define this keyboard entry and see if it works.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[YoYo siska]

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 07:28:00PM -0500, Harry Putnam wrote:
> Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:
> 
> > Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> writes:
> >
> >>> Read more details here:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml
> >>
> >> HAL is deprecated and will not be supported in X anymore,  so it's not
> >> the "new" way ;)
> >
> > Well, its just not the NEWEST way.  But what is the newest (post hal)
> > way?   And will the xorg.conf technique work anyway?
> 
> I should have mentioned that after posting the OP, I discovered I've
> had that stanza in xorg.conf for mnths... I forgot I had taken it from
> a post by Florien P., but I do not get the use of Ctrl+alt+bkspk to
> quit X. 
> 
> I guess it works for you though eh, Mick?

Works here (either in xorg.conf or in fdi files if let X use hal).
If you set up a keyboard layout in kde / gnome, it may be possible that
it resets the xkb options... though you seem to have the layout set in
xorg.conf, so that it seem improbable that you use the gnome/kde
layout configuration...

yoyo

> -------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      -------- 
> From xorg.conf:
> 
> Section "InputDevice"
> 
>     Identifier "Keyboard1"
>     Driver  "kbd"
> # [HP 100709_111603 From post on gentoo.user
> ## From: Florian Philipp <lists@f_philipp.fastmail.net>
> ## Subject: Re: Fed up with Xorg + hal mess
> ## Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:22:46 +0200
> ## Message-ID: <4ACB7CE6.10704@f_philipp.fastmail.net>
> ## Restablishes Ctrl-Alt-Bkspc to quit X
>     Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> # ]
>     Option "AutoRepeat" "500 30"
>     Option "XkbRules"   "xorg"
>     Option "XkbModel"   "pc104"
>     Option "XkbLayout"  "us"
> 
> EndSection
> 
> 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Paul Hartman]

On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> wrote:
> Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@arcor.de> writes:
>
>>> Read more details here:
>>>
>>> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml
>>
>> HAL is deprecated and will not be supported in X anymore,  so it's not
>> the "new" way ;)
>
> Well, its just not the NEWEST way.  But what is the newest (post hal)
> way?   And will the xorg.conf technique work anyway?

See http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.8-upgrade-guide.xml

Basically, it's kind of a user-friendly combination of the two. Your
config files are modular (or monolithic if you prefer) and in the old
xorg.conf style (can be read and edited more easily by humans), but
can use udev to describe any hardware device with precision. So it
should be able to have the power of HAL with the ease/familiarity of
the old config files.

[gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Harry Putnam]

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:

> The 'new' way of setting it up without a xorg.conf file is to set it up in 
> your /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi like so:
>
>  <merge key="input.xkb.options" type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
>
> Read more details here:
>
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml

I am running hal, but if I enter the suggested line:

   (all on one line [wrapped for mail here])
   <merge key="input.xkb.options"  
                    type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>

into /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi

And it is the only line in there.
 (Maybe there is supposed to be some header type lines above it?)

C+A+bkspc still doesn't kill X.   

It seems to have no effect at all when in xorg.conf as suggested or
/etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi as suggested.

-------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      -------- 

The only things I've tried that work are
1) From that same page of tips:
          setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp 
   That kills X instantly

2) my own concoction:
 kill -TERM `ps wwaux|awk '/[X].*noliste[n]/{print $2}'`

  Also instantly kills X

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Mick]

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On Tuesday 20 April 2010 16:30:18 Harry Putnam wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > The 'new' way of setting it up without a xorg.conf file is to set it up
> > in your /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi like so:
> >
> >  <merge key="input.xkb.options"
> > type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
> >
> > Read more details here:
> >
> > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide
> >.xml
> 
> I am running hal, but if I enter the suggested line:
> 
>    (all on one line [wrapped for mail here])
>    <merge key="input.xkb.options"
>                     type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
> 
> into /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi
> 
> And it is the only line in there.
>  (Maybe there is supposed to be some header type lines above it?)
> 
> C+A+bkspc still doesn't kill X.
> 
> It seems to have no effect at all when in xorg.conf as suggested or
> /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi as suggested.
> 
> -------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      --------
> 
> The only things I've tried that work are
> 1) From that same page of tips:
>           setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp
>    That kills X instantly
> 
> 2) my own concoction:
>  kill -TERM `ps wwaux|awk '/[X].*noliste[n]/{print $2}'`
> 
>   Also instantly kills X

I think you did not read the link properly.  You are meant to copy the 
relevant .fdi file from /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-keymap.fdi to 
/etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi and then modify the last paragraph:

<merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">us</merge>
      <merge key="input.xkb.options" 
type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
      <merge key="input.xkb.variant" type="string" />

by the adding the above line starting with type= ...

If this is not clear please let me know and I will have to post the whole 
content of the file.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Harry Putnam]

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:

> I think you did not read the link properly.  You are meant to copy
> the relevant .fdi file from
> /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-keymap.fdi to
> /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi and then modify the last
> paragraph:

Yes, I did misread apparently... it doesn't say that at all... maybe
that is why.
 
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.xml

There is no mention of copying:
   /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-keymap.fdi
to
  /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi 

  [...]

  If you want to make the change permanent, regardless of your desktop
  environment, you have a few more options :

    * If you use HAL to manage input devices, copy the following HAL
      fdi snippet into the fdi file from /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ which
      you use to control your keyboard. <merge key="input.xkb.options"
      type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge> If you do not have
      any custom keyboard rules, you can copy and adapt rules from
      /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-x11-input.fdi

It never names the file... that;
   /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-x11-input.fdi
is to be copied to, or anything about the last paragraph.

I'm sorry to be so dense here... but I'm missing something still.

> <merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">us</merge>
>       <merge key="input.xkb.options" 

That second line above  is not present in my copy of:
 /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-x11-input.fdi

Mick wrote:
> type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
>       <merge key="input.xkb.variant" type="string" />
>
> by the adding the above line starting with type= ...


I see (showing line numbers 
   from:[...]10osvendor/10-x11-input.fdi

[...]
17     </match>
18
19      <merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">us</merge>
20     <merge key="input.xkb.variant" type="string" />
21   </match>
[...]

So do you mean to replace 19 and 20 with:

,----
| <merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">us</merge>
| <merge key="input.xkb.options" type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
`----

Or add the two in box quote after 19... or what?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Mick]

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On Wednesday 21 April 2010 01:44:15 Harry Putnam wrote:
> Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:
> > I think you did not read the link properly.  You are meant to copy
> > the relevant .fdi file from
> > /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-keymap.fdi to
> > /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi and then modify the last
> > paragraph:
> 
> Yes, I did misread apparently... it doesn't say that at all... maybe
> that is why.
> 
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/desktop/x/x11/xorg-server-1.6-upgrade-guide.x
> ml

The penultimate paragraph says that you should copy _some_ file from 
/usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/ to /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ 

> There is no mention of copying:
>    /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-keymap.fdi
> to
>   /etc/hal/fdi/policy/10-keymap.fdi

The file that I mentioned is the one relevant to key inputs, but you could 
have used say the 10-input.fdi or made one up yourself that ends in fdi.


> I'm sorry to be so dense here... but I'm missing something still.

No, I was rather incomplete in my reply, which ended up confusing the matter.

> > <merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">us</merge>
> >       <merge key="input.xkb.options"
> 
> That second line above  is not present in my copy of:
>  /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-x11-input.fdi
> 
> Mick wrote:
> > type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
> >       <merge key="input.xkb.variant" type="string" />
> >
> > by the adding the above line starting with type= ...
> 
> I see (showing line numbers
>    from:[...]10osvendor/10-x11-input.fdi
> 
> [...]
> 17     </match>
> 18
> 19      <merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">us</merge>
> 20     <merge key="input.xkb.variant" type="string" />
> 21   </match>
> [...]
> 
> So do you mean to replace 19 and 20 with:
> 
> ,----
> 
> | <merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">us</merge>
> | <merge key="input.xkb.options"
> | type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
> 
> `----
> 
> Or add the two in box quote after 19... or what?

This is mine:
============================================
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?> <!-- -*- SGML -*- -->
<deviceinfo version="0.2">
  <device>
    <match key="info.capabilities" contains="input.keymap">
      <append key="info.callouts.add" type="strlist">hal-setup-keymap</append>
    </match>

    <match key="info.capabilities" contains="input.keys">
      <merge key="input.xkb.rules" type="string">base</merge>

      <!-- If we're using Linux, we use evdev by default (falling back to
           keyboard otherwise). -->
      <merge key="input.xkb.model" type="string">keyboard</merge>
      <match key="/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer:system.kernel.name"
             string="Linux">
        <merge key="input.xkb.model" type="string">evdev</merge>
      </match>

      <merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">gb,se</merge>
      <merge key="input.xkb.options" 
type="string">grp:alt_shift_toggle,grp_led:scroll,compose:menu,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
      <merge key="input.xkb.variant" type="string" />
    </match>
  </device>
</deviceinfo>
============================================

Now, if you are only using one language, you only need line 19 in your example 
and insert a new line between your 19 and 20 that says: <merge 
key="input.xkb.options" type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
      
(all on one line)

HTH and sorry for giving an incomplete answer at the start.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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[gentoo-user] Re: I want my Ctrl+Alt+Backspace back

[Harry Putnam]

Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> The penultimate paragraph says that you should copy _some_ file from 
> /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/ to /etc/hal/fdi/policy/ 

penultimate Egad... does that mean its explosive? ...  : ) 

[...]

> 
>> [...]
>> 17     </match>
>> 18
>> 19      <merge key="input.xkb.layout" type="string">us</merge>
>> 20     <merge key="input.xkb.variant" type="string" />
>> 21   </match>
>> [...]

[...] snipped nice example

> Now, if you are only using one language, you only need line 19 in your example 
> and insert a new line between your 19 and 20 that says: <merge 
> key="input.xkb.options" type="string">terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp</merge>
>       
> (all on one line)
>
> HTH and sorry for giving an incomplete answer at the start.

Very helpful... thank you.  And thanks for being so patient.

I actually got it working with this last guide of yours. But now I
guess we are about to lose hal, so probably will be looking at some
newer way to maintain C+A+BKSPC...