[gentoo-user] Broken 3D

[gentoo-user] Broken 3D

[James]

Hello,

bzflag will not run....

I'm using ati-drivers (9.9-r2) on an AMD64 system.

xdriinfo says?

Xlib:  extension "XFree86-DRI" missing on 
display ":0.0"
Screen 0: not direct rendering capable.


Wnen I recompile ati-drivers I get this:

snip
 Found sources for kernel version:                                               
      2.6.30-gentoo-r4                                                            
  You have DRM support built in to the kernel                                     
  Direct rendering will not work.             


I usally aways put my video driver stuff into
the kernel, not as a module......     

also

bash: glxgears: command not found


So in all of the upgrading, edit of xorg.conf
and new kernels, I took what was working 
and munged up the 3d on this system:

ATI Technologies Inc RV710 [Radeon HD 4350]

I have ran this also:

emerge -1 ati-drivers xf86-input-evdev xf86-input-joystick 
xf86-input-keyboard xf86-input-mouse xf86-video-fbdev


Any suggestions or clarification are most welcome.


James

[gentoo-user] Re: Broken 3D

[walt]

On 10/07/2009 09:49 AM, James wrote:
> Hello,
>

> bash: glxgears: command not found

I can't help with the driver, but glxgears is in the mesa-progs package.

Re: [gentoo-user] Broken 3D

[James Ausmus]

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On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 9:49 AM, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> bzflag will not run....
>
<snip>

> Any suggestions or clarification are most welcome.
>
<snip>


Can you send your /var/log/Xorg.0.log file?

-James

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Re: [gentoo-user] Broken 3D

[Volker Armin Hemmann]

On Mittwoch 07 Oktober 2009, James wrote:

> Any suggestions or clarification are most welcome.

yes, remove that drm stuff from your kernel as you are told in the error 
message. Compile&install kernel, install ati-drivers, reboot.

Geez - the error tells you exactly the problem!

Re: [gentoo-user] Broken 3D

[Jesús Guerrero]

On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 16:49:41 +0000 (UTC), James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> bzflag will not run....
> 
> I'm using ati-drivers (9.9-r2) on an AMD64 system.
> 
> xdriinfo says?
> 
> Xlib:  extension "XFree86-DRI" missing on 
> display ":0.0"
> Screen 0: not direct rendering capable.
> 
> 
> Wnen I recompile ati-drivers I get this:
> 
> snip
>  Found sources for kernel version:
>       2.6.30-gentoo-r4
>   You have DRM support built in to the kernel
>   Direct rendering will not work.             
> 
> 
> I usally aways put my video driver stuff into
> the kernel, not as a module......     

You can't since you want to use ati-driver/fglrx. The fglrx is not part of
the kernel, it's only shipped in the form of a binary-only closed source
kernel module. fglrx doesn't need (and most likely will fail as you see)
the in-kernel radeon drm driver. So, either disable radeon AND drm in your
kernel, or build them as modules and make sure that they are not loaded
before you try to load fglrx.



-- 
Jesús Guerrero

[gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[James]

Jesús Guerrero <i92guboj <at> terra.es> writes:


> You can't since you want to use ati-driver/fglrx. The fglrx is not part of
> the kernel, it's only shipped in the form of a binary-only closed source
> kernel module. fglrx doesn't need (and most likely will fail as you see)
> the in-kernel radeon drm driver. So, either disable radeon AND drm in your
> kernel, or build them as modules and make sure that they are not loaded
> before you try to load fglrx.


As usually Volker was right. Thanks for this explanation....
With a mixture of open sourced and ati-driver systems,
sometimes I get confused...... or careless.


One final question. When I run this command:
emerge -1 $(qlist -I x11-drivers)

I get this error:
'x11-drivers/ati-drivers' is not a valid package atom
Please check ebuild(5) for full details.


yet 'emerge x11-drivers/ati-drivers'
works fine as a one line command....


Is this a bug? My bad (syntax)?


James

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Jesús Guerrero]

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:28:12 +0000 (UTC), James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:
> Jesús Guerrero <i92guboj <at> terra.es> writes:
> 
> 
>> You can't since you want to use ati-driver/fglrx. The fglrx is not part
>> of
>> the kernel, it's only shipped in the form of a binary-only closed
source
>> kernel module. fglrx doesn't need (and most likely will fail as you
see)
>> the in-kernel radeon drm driver. So, either disable radeon AND drm in
>> your
>> kernel, or build them as modules and make sure that they are not loaded
>> before you try to load fglrx.
> 
> 
> As usually Volker was right. Thanks for this explanation....
> With a mixture of open sourced and ati-driver systems,
> sometimes I get confused...... or careless.
> 
> 
> One final question. When I run this command:
> emerge -1 $(qlist -I x11-drivers)
> 
> I get this error:
> 'x11-drivers/ati-drivers' is not a valid package atom
> Please check ebuild(5) for full details.
> 
> 
> yet 'emerge x11-drivers/ati-drivers'
> works fine as a one line command....
> 
> 
> Is this a bug? My bad (syntax)?

Probably the colors screwing everything, as always. Try searching the
qlist man page for something like --nocolor or --color=never.
-- 
Jesús Guerrero

[gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[James]

Jesús Guerrero <i92guboj <at> terra.es> writes:


> Probably the colors screwing everything, as always. Try searching the
> qlist man page for something like --nocolor or --color=never.


Yep:

emerge -1 $(qlist -IC x11-drivers)

works just fine....
thx....

James

[gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 10/08/2009 06:28 PM, James wrote:
> One final question. When I run this command:
> emerge -1 $(qlist -I x11-drivers)
>
> I get this error:
> 'x11-drivers/ati-drivers' is not a valid package atom
> Please check ebuild(5) for full details.

Try: emerge -1 $(qlist -I x11-drivers)

And it's usually quicker to type with backticks instead of $():

   emerge -1 `qlist -IC x11-drivers`

Note: not single-quotes ('), but backticks (`).  It's usually the key 
above TAB and to the left of 1.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:54:26 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> And it's usually quicker to type with backticks instead of $():

But nowhere near as clear.

> Note: not single-quotes ('), but backticks (`).  It's usually the key 
> above TAB and to the left of 1.

I rest my case :)

Note you can also nest commands when using $(), which you can't do with
backticks.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Beware! The end is... <aaarrgh!>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 08 October 2009 20:33:01 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:54:26 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > And it's usually quicker to type with backticks instead of $():
> 
> But nowhere near as clear.

And it's quicker to type "$(" - muscle memory - than to do the whole hunt-
peek-peck thing to find the ` key - I can't touch type it, have to *look* for 
it

:-)
 
> > Note: not single-quotes ('), but backticks (`).  It's usually the key
> > above TAB and to the left of 1.
> 
> I rest my case :)
> 
> Note you can also nest commands when using $(), which you can't do with
> backticks.

That's neat. But,

please provide an example where an actual sane human would actually use it. 
Coz I can't think of one... 

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[James Ausmus]

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On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Alan McKinnon <alan.mckinnon@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thursday 08 October 2009 20:33:01 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:54:26 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > > And it's usually quicker to type with backticks instead of $():
> >
> > But nowhere near as clear.
>
> And it's quicker to type "$(" - muscle memory - than to do the whole hunt-
> peek-peck thing to find the ` key - I can't touch type it, have to *look*
> for
> it
>
> :-)
>
> > > Note: not single-quotes ('), but backticks (`).  It's usually the key
> > > above TAB and to the left of 1.
> >
> > I rest my case :)
> >
> > Note you can also nest commands when using $(), which you can't do with
> > backticks.
>
> That's neat. But,
>
> please provide an example where an actual sane human would actually use it.
> Coz I can't think of one...
>
>
I've used it before - I can't remember what is was for, but I do remember
using nested $() commands...

Isn't ` being deprecated (by BASH at least) anyway?

-James




> --
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
>
>

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[gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 10/08/2009 10:19 PM, James Ausmus wrote:
> I've used it before - I can't remember what is was for, but I do
> remember using nested $() commands...
>
> Isn't ` being deprecated (by BASH at least) anyway?

Hopefully not!  It's just two key presses to type "``". "$()" takes 4 
(shift+4+9, command, shift+0).

What's easier than simply pressing one single key? :-/

[gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 10/08/2009 09:33 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:54:26 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> And it's usually quicker to type with backticks instead of $():
>
> But nowhere near as clear.
>
>> Note: not single-quotes ('), but backticks (`).  It's usually the key
>> above TAB and to the left of 1.
>
> I rest my case :)

Why?  It's one single key.  Easy to remember.  Nothing is easier than 
one key instead of needing shift+4-shift+9 to produce "$(" :P


> Note you can also nest commands when using $(), which you can't do with
> backticks.

You can, but that is awkward (echo `echo \`echo \\\`ls\\\`\``).  But for 
a single, not-nested command, `` is lighting fast to type.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Alan McKinnon]

On Thursday 08 October 2009 21:27:57 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 10/08/2009 10:19 PM, James Ausmus wrote:
> > I've used it before - I can't remember what is was for, but I do
> > remember using nested $() commands...
> >
> > Isn't ` being deprecated (by BASH at least) anyway?
> 
> Hopefully not!  It's just two key presses to type "``". "$()" takes 4
> (shift+4+9, command, shift+0).

$() is more consistent with other syntax elements in bash, It's essentially 
the same thing as evaluating a variable and inserting it's value. The `` 
syntax is a wild anachronism from days long ago that is completely at odds 
with everything else in the shell. Well, you can say that about many things in 
bash, but that's not a good reason to not fix anything...

IIRC correctly it's not really deprecated either - that implies the thing will 
go away some time. It's more "strongly advised not to use it"

> 
> What's easier than simply pressing one single key? :-/

Ummm, not having to look for it and find it first before pressing it? How 
about a keyboard that doesn't have it at all?


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 10/08/2009 11:02 PM, Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Thursday 08 October 2009 21:27:57 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> On 10/08/2009 10:19 PM, James Ausmus wrote:
>>> I've used it before - I can't remember what is was for, but I do
>>> remember using nested $() commands...
>>>
>>> Isn't ` being deprecated (by BASH at least) anyway?
>>
>> Hopefully not!  It's just two key presses to type "``". "$()" takes 4
>> (shift+4+9, command, shift+0).
>
> $() is more consistent with other syntax elements in bash, It's essentially
> the same thing as evaluating a variable and inserting it's value. The ``
> syntax is a wild anachronism from days long ago that is completely at odds
> with everything else in the shell. Well, you can say that about many things in
> bash, but that's not a good reason to not fix anything...
>
> IIRC correctly it's not really deprecated either - that implies the thing will
> go away some time. It's more "strongly advised not to use it"

I think you're confusing script usage vs interactive CLI usage.


>> What's easier than simply pressing one single key? :-/
>
> Ummm, not having to look for it and find it first before pressing it?

That's true for every key.  But I bet you learned how to do shift+4 to 
get an $, right?  Well, it's much easier to learn how to press ` to get 
an... ` ;)


> How about a keyboard that doesn't have it at all?

Don't know, I've never saw one.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:34:37 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> >> And it's usually quicker to type with backticks instead of $():  
> >
> > But nowhere near as clear.
> >  
> >> Note: not single-quotes ('), but backticks (`).  It's usually the key
> >> above TAB and to the left of 1.  
> >
> > I rest my case :)  
> 
> Why?  It's one single key.  Easy to remember.  Nothing is easier than 
> one key instead of needing shift+4-shift+9 to produce "$(" :P
> 

But not as clear as stated above. I've lost count of the number of times
someone has posted a command, on this list or elsewhere, that uses
backticks, then had to explain what backticks are after the other person
used single quotes, not noticing the difference. You even had to explain
it yourself here, which took a lot more than an extra three keystrokes.

I'm not saying don't use backticks, I occasionally use them myself,
although I tend to automatically use $( these days, but using them on a
mailing list only causes confusion.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

This tagline SHAREWARE. Send .

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Jesús Guerrero]

On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 19:33:01 +0100, Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk>
wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:54:26 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> 
>> And it's usually quicker to type with backticks instead of $():
> 
> But nowhere near as clear.
> 
>> Note: not single-quotes ('), but backticks (`).  It's usually the key 
>> above TAB and to the left of 1.
> 
> I rest my case :)
> 
> Note you can also nest commands when using $(), which you can't do with
> backticks.

Note also that some languages and keyboard layouts don't favor the use of
the backticks for this case. In Spanish keyboards, this characters: `´^¨
are dead keys (I think that's the correct term, not 100% sure), which means
they don't print anything until you press another key. That means that to
write `foo` I have to actually type `[space]foo`[space], or at least
``foo`` (press the key twice). An in any case it's just a matter of tastes.
Besides that, $() is far clearer, and it allows you to do things like this:

echo $(ls -l $(which tar))

Just an useless example. That, you can't do with backticks.

-- 
Jesús Guerrero

[gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Jonathan Callen]

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Neil Bothwick wrote:
> Note you can also nest commands when using $(), which you can't do with
> backticks.

You can nest commands with ``, it's just less intuitive; each of the
following are equivalent:

  echo $(echo $(echo $(echo $(echo foo))))
  echo $(echo $(echo $(echo `echo foo`)))
  echo $(echo $(echo `echo \`echo foo\``))
  echo $(echo `echo \`echo \\\`echo foo\\\`\``)
  echo `echo \`echo \\\`echo \\\\\\\`echo foo\\\\\\\`\\\`\``

Yes, that is a *lot* of backslashes in the last one, which is why no one
nests that far with `` (personally, I always use $() instead of ``, but
that's mainly because I switched my escape for GNU screen from ^A to `).

- --
Jonathan
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Jesús Guerrero]

On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:22:05 -0400, Jonathan Callen <abcd@gentoo.org>
wrote:
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> 
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> Note you can also nest commands when using $(), which you can't do with
>> backticks.
> 
> You can nest commands with ``, it's just less intuitive; each of the
> following are equivalent:

Thank for calling my attention on that.

Yes, I know how it works. I rather meant that you can't nest the backticks
in a vanilla fashion, like with $(). Escaping the ticks you can do whatever
you want, it's just a matter of making sure the right thing reaches the
correct depth in a nested chain of shells, since each time that this kind
of substitution it happens in a new subshell.

$ pgrep bash | wc -l
6
$ echo $(pgrep bash | wc -l)
7
$ echo $(echo $(pgrep bash | wc -l))
8

I'll admit I didn't express it in the clearest way. However, this doesn't
solve the fact of the accents being dead keys in a lost (most?) languages
with a Latin alphabet, but English, nor the problem about the clarity
(though that's less an issue when you are working in command line, most
times anyway). I have no idea if the accent is a standard character in
every keyboard layout, so I am not sure that that is a valid argument on
any sane keyboard. I just checked and that accent is even part of the 7 bit
ascii table (dec 96), which is as minimal as you can get nowadays unless we
are speaking about some exotic embedded stuff or ancient device of the
caverns, and in that case, probably the same could apply to $, and even ()
:P

-- 
Jesús Guerrero

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:22:05 -0400, Jonathan Callen wrote:

> that's mainly because I switched my escape for GNU screen from ^A to `

That's a good idea, as I use ` a lot less than Ctrl-A I may do the same.
Then I'll have to override years opf muscle memory...


- -- 
Neil Bothwick

SCORE! Monkeys: one. Humans: zero.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: FIXED 3D

[Alex Schuster]

Alan McKinnon writes:

> On Thursday 08 October 2009 20:33:01 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:54:26 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > > And it's usually quicker to type with backticks instead of $():
> >
> > But nowhere near as clear.
>
> And it's quicker to type "$(" - muscle memory - than to do the whole
> hunt- peek-peck thing to find the ` key - I can't touch type it, have
> to *look* for it

Uh...

> :-)

... okay :) I for myself was happy when I learnt that $() exists, and 
prefer it over the backticks notation. Although it's more to type. But it 
looks better, and I want my scripts to look good.


> > Note you can also nest commands when using $(), which you can't do
> > with backticks.
>
> That's neat. But,
>
> please provide an example where an actual sane human would actually use
> it. Coz I can't think of one...

Hey, I'm doing this all the time in my scripts. First example I found is 
this, but there are many more:

total=$( mydf -2 "$dir" )
format=$( printf "%%%dd" $( echo $total | wc -c ) )
log 0 "  Total:    %s MB\n" "$( printf "$format" "$total" )"
log 0 "  Used:     %s MB\n" "$( printf "$format" "$( mydf -3 "$dir" )" )"
log 0 "  Free:     %s MB\n" "$( printf "$format" "$( mydf -4 "$dir" )" )"

That was before I knew about ${#total}, so in fact no nesting would be 
required in line 2.

I think I also had tree levels of nesting somewhere, but that was too much 
fpr Nedit's syntax highlighting, so I de-nested this a little.

	Wonko the Sane