[gentoo-user] runlevels and service list

[gentoo-user] runlevels and service list

[William Kenworthy]

Is there a "reference" list of what services should be started in which
runlevels?  I am interested in hald and dbus in particular.

Googling shows mostly people set them to the default runlevel, but I
would like a reference or reason ...

BillK



-- 
William Kenworthy <billk@iinet.net.au>
Home in Perth!

[gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 09/20/2009 03:34 PM, William Kenworthy wrote:
> Is there a "reference" list of what services should be started in which
> runlevels?  I am interested in hald and dbus in particular.
>
> Googling shows mostly people set them to the default runlevel, but I
> would like a reference or reason ...

The reason is that they are used by X, and since X is in the default 
runlevel, hal and dbus go there too.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[William Kenworthy]

On Sun, 2009-09-20 at 15:40 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 09/20/2009 03:34 PM, William Kenworthy wrote:
> > Is there a "reference" list of what services should be started in which
> > runlevels?  I am interested in hald and dbus in particular.
> >
> > Googling shows mostly people set them to the default runlevel, but I
> > would like a reference or reason ...
> 
> The reason is that they are used by X, and since X is in the default 
> runlevel, hal and dbus go there too.
> 
> 

Lots of other things use them as well - not just X, so thats not a
reason (and lots of systems that dont have X but need dbus and hal).  I
would like to know why they are started in the default run-level, not at
boot which seems more reasonable for low level hardware support.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 20 September 2009 14:50:02 William Kenworthy wrote:
> On Sun, 2009-09-20 at 15:40 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> > On 09/20/2009 03:34 PM, William Kenworthy wrote:
> > > Is there a "reference" list of what services should be started in which
> > > runlevels?  I am interested in hald and dbus in particular.
> > >
> > > Googling shows mostly people set them to the default runlevel, but I
> > > would like a reference or reason ...
> >
> > The reason is that they are used by X, and since X is in the default
> > runlevel, hal and dbus go there too.
> 
> Lots of other things use them as well - not just X, so thats not a
> reason (and lots of systems that dont have X but need dbus and hal).  I
> would like to know why they are started in the default run-level, not at
> boot which seems more reasonable for low level hardware support.

It comes down to personal preference. Any service in the boot runlevel will 
always be started, unlike default or other runlevels which can be run or not 
run by user choice. There's no good reason to mandate that dbus and hal will 
*always* run.

Normally, nothing in the boot runlevel uses hal or dbus as these are userspace 
daemons used by apps that run when the system is up in its normal state. The 
primary consumer of dbus is of course the desktop. When the system is in 
single user mode for maintenance, dbus and hal will not normally be required.

If it makes you feel better, start dbus and hal in the boot runlevel by all 
means. They are normally in default because everything that uses them is in 
default.

Like I said earlier, there is no good, sane, all-encompassing reason to have 
or not have them in boot. They are not there by default because the maintainer 
probably saw no good reason to do so, and for no other reason.

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:50:02 +0800, William Kenworthy wrote:

> Lots of other things use them as well - not just X, so thats not a
> reason (and lots of systems that dont have X but need dbus and hal).  I
> would like to know why they are started in the default run-level, not at
> boot which seems more reasonable for low level hardware support.

Because they don't need to go in boot, as evidenced by the successful
booting of your system. The boot runlevel is for those services that have
to be started before anything else.

Dbus doesn't need to be put in any runlevel, it will be started when hald
needs it.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

One person's error is another person's data.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Philip Webb]

090920 Neil Bothwick wrote:
> Dbus doesn't need to be put in any runlevel,
> it will be started when hald needs it.

I was wondering why Htop shows it, but it isn't in the default runlevel.

-- 
========================,,============================================
SUPPORT     ___________//___,   Philip Webb
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|   Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT    `-O----------O---'   purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

[gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 09/20/2009 09:45 PM, Philip Webb wrote:
> 090920 Neil Bothwick wrote:
>> Dbus doesn't need to be put in any runlevel,
>> it will be started when hald needs it.
>
> I was wondering why Htop shows it, but it isn't in the default runlevel.

/bin/bash is also shown in htop even though bash isn't in any runlevel 
either ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:51:17 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> /bin/bash is also shown in htop even though bash isn't in any runlevel 
> either ;)

Not here.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:51:17 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>   
>> /bin/bash is also shown in htop even though bash isn't in any runlevel 
>> either ;)
>>     
>
> Not here.
>
>
>   

This is all I get for bash:

root@smoker / # ps aux | grep bash
dale      7254  0.0  0.0   3044   572 ?        S    Sep19   0:00
/bin/bash /usr/libexec/mozilla-launcher
root      7704  0.0  0.0   1888   516 pts/0    S+   15:01   0:00 grep
--colour=auto bash
root@smoker / #

I guess Seamonkey uses it for something.  That is also all that shows up
in htop as well.  Nothing else bash that I can find.

Nikos, you got something weird going on in your system?

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Alan McKinnon]

On Sunday 20 September 2009 22:06:44 Dale wrote:
> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:51:17 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >> /bin/bash is also shown in htop even though bash isn't in any runlevel
> >> either ;)
> >
> > Not here.
> 
> This is all I get for bash:
> 
> root@smoker / # ps aux | grep bash
> dale      7254  0.0  0.0   3044   572 ?        S    Sep19   0:00
> /bin/bash /usr/libexec/mozilla-launcher
> root      7704  0.0  0.0   1888   516 pts/0    S+   15:01   0:00 grep
> --colour=auto bash
> root@smoker / #
> 
> I guess Seamonkey uses it for something.  That is also all that shows up
> in htop as well.  Nothing else bash that I can find.

The mozilla launcher scripts spawn an instance of bash which then goes looking 
for the mozilla binaries and launches them. All perfectly normal.

The reason you don't see bash in ps is because you are not running bash. I do, 
but you obviously don't. What shell does root use per /etc/passwd? 
-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Sunday 20 September 2009 22:06:44 Dale wrote:
>   
>> Neil Bothwick wrote:
>>     
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:51:17 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>>>       
>>>> /bin/bash is also shown in htop even though bash isn't in any runlevel
>>>> either ;)
>>>>         
>>> Not here.
>>>       
>> This is all I get for bash:
>>
>> root@smoker / # ps aux | grep bash
>> dale      7254  0.0  0.0   3044   572 ?        S    Sep19   0:00
>> /bin/bash /usr/libexec/mozilla-launcher
>> root      7704  0.0  0.0   1888   516 pts/0    S+   15:01   0:00 grep
>> --colour=auto bash
>> root@smoker / #
>>
>> I guess Seamonkey uses it for something.  That is also all that shows up
>> in htop as well.  Nothing else bash that I can find.
>>     
>
> The mozilla launcher scripts spawn an instance of bash which then goes looking 
> for the mozilla binaries and launches them. All perfectly normal.
>
> The reason you don't see bash in ps is because you are not running bash. I do, 
> but you obviously don't. What shell does root use per /etc/passwd? 
>   
This one:

root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash

Looks like bash.  ;-)  I assume this is the default because I have never
changed this file.  Is there something screwy with my system? 

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[walt]

On 09/20/2009 02:51 PM, Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:

>> The reason you don't see bash in ps is because you are not running bash. I do,
>> but you obviously don't. What shell does root use per /etc/passwd?
>>
> This one:
>
> root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
>
> Looks like bash.  ;-)  I assume this is the default because I have never
> changed this file.  Is there something screwy with my system?

In linux bash is the default shell (even sh is a symlink to bash) but in
other OS's other default shells prevail.

How did you type your 'ps aux' command?  In an xterm window, or what?

Here's a snippet from my ps axf:  (I love that 'f' flag)

  4682 tty1     S      0:00 xterm -bg rgb:db/e9/f9 -sb -fn 9x15
  4685 pts/0    Ss     0:00  \_ bash
  4724 pts/0    S      0:00      \_ su
  4729 pts/0    S      0:00          \_ bash
22427 pts/0    R+     0:00              \_ ps axf

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Alan McKinnon]

On Monday 21 September 2009 02:11:51 walt wrote:
> On 09/20/2009 02:51 PM, Dale wrote:
> > Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >> The reason you don't see bash in ps is because you are not running bash.
> >> I do, but you obviously don't. What shell does root use per /etc/passwd?
> >
> > This one:
> >
> > root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
> >
> > Looks like bash.  ;-)  I assume this is the default because I have never
> > changed this file.  Is there something screwy with my system?
> 
> In linux bash is the default shell (even sh is a symlink to bash) but in
> other OS's other default shells prevail.

Correction:

In *Gentoo* it is the default shell. A distro is free to choose whatever 
default shell it feels like, as is any other OS. There are distros out there 
that do not default to bash.

You simply cannot make a blanket statement like "In linux bash is the default 
shell" as it's simply not true.

Let's be accurate when we make statements, OK? If devs wrote code like that it 
would not run, and if you typed commands with that level of slap-dashedness 
they would frequently fail.


-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On Monday 21 September 2009 02:11:51 walt wrote:
>   
>> On 09/20/2009 02:51 PM, Dale wrote:
>>     
>>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>       
>>>> The reason you don't see bash in ps is because you are not running bash.
>>>> I do, but you obviously don't. What shell does root use per /etc/passwd?
>>>>         
>>> This one:
>>>
>>> root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
>>>
>>> Looks like bash.  ;-)  I assume this is the default because I have never
>>> changed this file.  Is there something screwy with my system?
>>>       
>> In linux bash is the default shell (even sh is a symlink to bash) but in
>> other OS's other default shells prevail.
>>     
>
> Correction:
>
> In *Gentoo* it is the default shell. A distro is free to choose whatever 
> default shell it feels like, as is any other OS. There are distros out there 
> that do not default to bash.
>
> You simply cannot make a blanket statement like "In linux bash is the default 
> shell" as it's simply not true.
>
> Let's be accurate when we make statements, OK? If devs wrote code like that it 
> would not run, and if you typed commands with that level of slap-dashedness 
> they would frequently fail.
>
>
>   

So that is my problem.  "slap-dashedness"  ;-)  LOL  I always wondered
why I could screw something up. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  Read a LOT of humor in that. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Dale]

walt wrote:
> On 09/20/2009 02:51 PM, Dale wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>>> The reason you don't see bash in ps is because you are not running
>>> bash. I do,
>>> but you obviously don't. What shell does root use per /etc/passwd?
>>>
>> This one:
>>
>> root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
>>
>> Looks like bash.  ;-)  I assume this is the default because I have never
>> changed this file.  Is there something screwy with my system?
>
> In linux bash is the default shell (even sh is a symlink to bash) but in
> other OS's other default shells prevail.
>
> How did you type your 'ps aux' command?  In an xterm window, or what?
>
> Here's a snippet from my ps axf:  (I love that 'f' flag)
>
>  4682 tty1     S      0:00 xterm -bg rgb:db/e9/f9 -sb -fn 9x15
>  4685 pts/0    Ss     0:00  \_ bash
>  4724 pts/0    S      0:00      \_ su
>  4729 pts/0    S      0:00          \_ bash
> 22427 pts/0    R+     0:00              \_ ps axf
>
>
>

I used the command ps aux.  I think that lists ALL processes.  I usually
use grep to filter them out.  This is what I got tho:

root@smoker / # ps aux | grep bash
dale      7254  0.0  0.0   3044   572 ?        S    Sep19   0:00
/bin/bash /usr/libexec/mozilla-launcher
root      7704  0.0  0.0   1888   516 pts/0    S+   15:01   0:00 grep
--colour=auto bash
root@smoker / #

Obviously the bottom one is the command I typed in.  I did this in a
Konsole within KDE.  I don't got to a actual Console to much.  Note the
K and the C on those.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

[gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[walt]

On 09/20/2009 05:40 PM, Dale wrote:
> walt wrote:
>> On 09/20/2009 02:51 PM, Dale wrote:
>>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>
>>>> The reason you don't see bash in ps is because you are not running
>>>> bash. I do,
>>>> but you obviously don't. What shell does root use per /etc/passwd?
>>>>
>>> This one:
>>>
>>> root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
>>>
>>> Looks like bash.  ;-)  I assume this is the default because I have never
>>> changed this file.  Is there something screwy with my system?
>>
>> In linux bash is the default shell (even sh is a symlink to bash) but in
>> other OS's other default shells prevail.

Okay, okay, Alan, you're right, I have not tried every linux distro out there,
but when I was a linux noob I tried every one I could find.  Back then that was
Debian, SuSe, Red Hat, Mandrake (since morphed into something else), and very
recently Ubuntu, just to see what all the fuss was about. (I'm sticking with
gentoo.)

All of those use(d) bash as the default shell, but may have switched while I
wasn't looking.  Bash *appears* to be the official shell of GNU, as its home
page is hosted there:  http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/

BTW, all of the above distros including gentoo are officially un-endorsed by
GNU:  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/common-distros.html

>> How did you type your 'ps aux' command?  In an xterm window, or what?
>>
>> Here's a snippet from my ps axf:  (I love that 'f' flag)
>>
>>   4682 tty1     S      0:00 xterm -bg rgb:db/e9/f9 -sb -fn 9x15
>>   4685 pts/0    Ss     0:00  \_ bash
>>   4724 pts/0    S      0:00      \_ su
>>   4729 pts/0    S      0:00          \_ bash
>> 22427 pts/0    R+     0:00              \_ ps axf
>>
>  ...I did this in a Konsole within KDE...

Ah, that was the answer I was looking for.  I'm a bit surprised that Konsole
doesn't invoke bash somehow.  I'll investigate more tomorrow when I'm awake.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Eric Martin]

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walt wrote:
> On 09/20/2009 05:40 PM, Dale wrote:
>> walt wrote:
>>> In linux bash is the default shell (even sh is a symlink to bash)
>>> but in
>>> other OS's other default shells prevail.
>
> Okay, okay, Alan, you're right, I have not tried every linux distro
> out there,
> but when I was a linux noob I tried every one I could find.  Back then
> that was
> Debian, SuSe, Red Hat, Mandrake (since morphed into something else),
> and very
> recently Ubuntu, just to see what all the fuss was about. (I'm
> sticking with
> gentoo.)
>
> All of those use(d) bash as the default shell, but may have switched
> while I
> wasn't looking.  Bash *appears* to be the official shell of GNU, as
> its home
> page is hosted there:  http://www.gnu.org/software/bash/
>
> BTW, all of the above distros including gentoo are officially
> un-endorsed by
> GNU:  http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/common-distros.html
Actually, /bin/bash is a symlink -> /bin/dash on Ubuntu so dash (Debian
ash) is the default shell on Ubuntu (and either dash or ash is on
Debian).  I found that out the hard way when I was scripting and some
bash stuff wouldn't work properly.

-- 
Eric Martin
D1C4 086E DBB5 C18E 6FDA  B215 6A25 7174 A941 3B9F



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[gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Jonathan Callen]

Eric Martin wrote:
> Actually, /bin/bash is a symlink -> /bin/dash on Ubuntu so dash (Debian
> ash) is the default shell on Ubuntu (and either dash or ash is on
> Debian).  I found that out the hard way when I was scripting and some
> bash stuff wouldn't work properly.
> 

No, /bin/bash is *always* bash on Ubuntu.  You are probably thinking of
/bin/sh, which is required to be a POSIX-compliant shell, such as dash
or bash.  On Ubuntu systems, /bin/sh is now provided by dash (by
default).  Debian also changed to using dash as /bin/sh fairly recently.

-- 
Jonathan

[gentoo-user] Re: Re: runlevels and service list

[walt]

On Sun, 2009-09-20 at 16:51 -0500, Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On Sunday 20 September 2009 22:06:44 Dale wrote:
> >   
> >> Neil Bothwick wrote:
> >>     
> >>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:51:17 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> >>>       
> >>>> /bin/bash is also shown in htop even though bash isn't in any runlevel
> >>>> either ;)
> >>>>         
> >>> Not here.
> >>>       
> >> This is all I get for bash:
> >>
> >> root@smoker / # ps aux | grep bash
> >> dale      7254  0.0  0.0   3044   572 ?        S    Sep19   0:00
> >> /bin/bash /usr/libexec/mozilla-launcher
> >> root      7704  0.0  0.0   1888   516 pts/0    S+   15:01   0:00 grep
> >> --colour=auto bash
> >> root@smoker / #
> >>
> >> I guess Seamonkey uses it for something.  That is also all that shows up
> >> in htop as well.  Nothing else bash that I can find.
> >>     
> >
> > The mozilla launcher scripts spawn an instance of bash which then goes looking 
> > for the mozilla binaries and launches them. All perfectly normal.
> >
> > The reason you don't see bash in ps is because you are not running bash. I do, 
> > but you obviously don't. What shell does root use per /etc/passwd? 
> >   
> This one:
> 
> root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
> 
> Looks like bash.  ;-)  I assume this is the default because I have never
> changed this file.  Is there something screwy with my system? 

Beginning to look that way.  I tried using konsole this morning and here
is what I got:

17423 pts/3    Sl     0:00 konsole
18951 pts/4    Ss     0:00  \_ /bin/bash
 2704 pts/4    R+     0:00      \_ ps axf

I have no idea why you don't get the same result.

[gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 09/20/2009 10:54 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:51:17 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>> /bin/bash is also shown in htop even though bash isn't in any runlevel
>> either ;)
>
> Not here.

Now that was pointless.  Whatever shell you're using, geez, seriously...

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:01:09 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

> >> /bin/bash is also shown in htop even though bash isn't in any
> >> runlevel either ;)  
> >
> > Not here.  
> 
> Now that was pointless.  Whatever shell you're using, geez, seriously...

Not quite, it demonstrated the error in assuming everyone uses bash :)


-- 
Neil Bothwick

DATA COMPRESSION: What You Get When You Squish An Android

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: runlevels and service list

[Dale]

Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:01:09 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>
>   
>>>> /bin/bash is also shown in htop even though bash isn't in any
>>>> runlevel either ;)  
>>>>         
>>> Not here.  
>>>       
>> Now that was pointless.  Whatever shell you're using, geez, seriously...
>>     
>
> Not quite, it demonstrated the error in assuming everyone uses bash :)
>
>
>   

I think it is to the point now of throwing out ideas and seeing which
one will stick to the wall and fix this.  It may not help but someone
may just have a brainstorm at some point. 

Dale

:-)  :-)