[gentoo-user] Considering launching into Gentoo

[gentoo-user] Considering launching into Gentoo

[AG]

Hello list

I am currently running Debian Squeeze and am considering the feasibility 
of switching to Gentoo due to several issues I am experiencing with a 
new machine with a SATA HDD and a TSSTcorp CDDVDW TS-H653Z which refuses 
to play audio CDs and pre-recorded DVDs.

In any event, because I have loads of data on my /home partition, I'm 
curious about a few things, primarily what are the implications of 
dual-booting with Gentoo as my second OS, so that I can experience 
Gentoo without losing my data, etc.

How compatible are Gentoo and Debian in terms of using a shared /home 
directory - I am concerned about uid for the directory for instance 
which, if I changed it for Gentoo, may not work for Debian and vice versa.

Any thoughts/ suggestions?

Many thanks

AG

[gentoo-user] Re: Considering launching into Gentoo

[Francesco Talamona]

On Saturday 13 June 2009, AG wrote:
> Hello list
>
> I am currently running Debian Squeeze and am considering the
> feasibility of switching to Gentoo due to several issues I am
> experiencing with a new machine with a SATA HDD and a TSSTcorp CDDVDW
> TS-H653Z which refuses to play audio CDs and pre-recorded DVDs.
>
> In any event, because I have loads of data on my /home partition, I'm
> curious about a few things, primarily what are the implications of
> dual-booting with Gentoo as my second OS, so that I can experience
> Gentoo without losing my data, etc.
>
> How compatible are Gentoo and Debian in terms of using a shared /home
> directory - I am concerned about uid for the directory for instance
> which, if I changed it for Gentoo, may not work for Debian and vice
> versa.
>
> Any thoughts/ suggestions?
>
> Many thanks
>
> AG

I had for a while a dual boot Gentoo-Debian. It is nothing to worry 
about.

The only two things I remember (it was mid 2005) are:

1) kmail repository is in a different subdir (~/.mail vs ~/Mail)
2) Openoffice folder had different naming as well

Those are not issues that are worked around with a couple of symlinks.

WRT UID/GID just make sure in advance the two OS uses the same.

Don't forget to make backup before starting your tests ;-)

Ciao
	Francesco


-- 
Linux Version 2.6.30-gentoo, Compiled #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Jun 11 18:44:20 
CEST 2009
Two 1GHz AMD Athlon 64 Processors, 4GB RAM, 4018.72 Bogomips Total
aemaeth

[gentoo-user] Re: Considering launching into Gentoo

[walt]

AG wrote:
> Hello list
>
> I am currently running Debian Squeeze and am considering the feasibility
> of switching to Gentoo due to several issues I am experiencing with a
> new machine with a SATA HDD and a TSSTcorp CDDVDW TS-H653Z which refuses
> to play audio CDs and pre-recorded DVDs.

Well, I'm all for using gentoo because I despise the debian package system,
but that's just me.  Hardware problems like you describe are usually driver-
related or really are hardware problems, in my experience.

As it's a new machine it can be hard to separate hardware from driver problems
without, as you say, trying some different software.  The gold standard for
such trials usually involves Windows because the drivers are so widely tested
before the manufacturer releases them to the public.  Chances are you'll be
using the same drivers with gentoo as with debian.

> In any event, because I have loads of data on my /home partition, I'm
> curious about a few things, primarily what are the implications of
> dual-booting with Gentoo as my second OS, so that I can experience
> Gentoo without losing my data, etc.
>
> How compatible are Gentoo and Debian in terms of using a shared /home
> directory - I am concerned about uid for the directory for instance
> which, if I changed it for Gentoo, may not work for Debian and vice versa.

That part is trivial.  You can either specify a desired UID when you create
your gentoo user, or go back later and change it with chown -R newuid:newgid.

Re: [gentoo-user] Considering launching into Gentoo

[Alan McKinnon]

On Saturday 13 June 2009 15:02:26 AG wrote:
> Hello list
>
> I am currently running Debian Squeeze and am considering the feasibility
> of switching to Gentoo due to several issues I am experiencing with a
> new machine with a SATA HDD and a TSSTcorp CDDVDW TS-H653Z which refuses
> to play audio CDs and pre-recorded DVDs.
>
> In any event, because I have loads of data on my /home partition, I'm
> curious about a few things, primarily what are the implications of
> dual-booting with Gentoo as my second OS, so that I can experience
> Gentoo without losing my data, etc.

You have to ensure that the config files you have in your home directory are 
compatible with both systems. If you have a directive in a file that works 
correctly on one version and causes catastrophic failures if used on another, 
you have to be sure you do not use the latter.

Luckily, this is exceptionally rare.
Unluckily, only a manual audit can find this out.
Luckily, we have this other grand idea called a backup :-) Just backup the dot 
files.

As for data files, no need to worry. They will be just fine.

> How compatible are Gentoo and Debian in terms of using a shared /home
> directory - I am concerned about uid for the directory for instance
> which, if I changed it for Gentoo, may not work for Debian and vice versa.

Both use the same GNU tools to do stuff. Just ensure that your UID is the same 
on both systems. "useradd -u" and "usermod -u" and "chown -R" are the tools 
you need to do it right and/or correct any mistakes afterwards

In short, you have to do something spectacularly stupid (or act like a 
clueless Windows user) or have monumental bad luck to actually successfully 
break stuff here.

You might want to read wizard screens on automated installers too and make 
sure you don't click the box that asks to 
"create /home, delete and format it? (y/n)"

It's not likely you will make this error. As a Debian user, it is normally 
safe to assume you can, in fact, read :-)

-- 
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

[gentoo-user] Re: Considering launching into Gentoo

[walt]

Alan McKinnon wrote:

> ...As a Debian user, it is normally
> safe to assume you can, in fact, read :-)

Ah, maybe that explains why I despise their package manager.

When I was a Debian user I figured that the most basic of utilities
should be easy to use -- and I'm only half joking.

Just for fun I tried Ubuntu recently since it's been so popular the
last few years.  They built their system on top of a Debian base,
including my nemesis, the Debian package management system :o(

The Synaptics GUI front end for their package manager is a great deal
easier than the original back end, true, but the basic bad design of
the back end still glares through the eye candy.  (Just my opinion.)

I like gentoo's portage system so-o-o-o much better!

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Considering launching into Gentoo

[bn]

walt ha scritto:
> Ah, maybe that explains why I despise their package manager.
> 
> When I was a Debian user I figured that the most basic of utilities
> should be easy to use -- and I'm only half joking.
> 
> Just for fun I tried Ubuntu recently since it's been so popular the
> last few years.  They built their system on top of a Debian base,
> including my nemesis, the Debian package management system :o(
> 
> The Synaptics GUI front end for their package manager is a great deal
> easier than the original back end, true, but the basic bad design of
> the back end still glares through the eye candy.  (Just my opinion.)
> 
> I like gentoo's portage system so-o-o-o much better!

As a user of both Debian-based and Gentoo systems, I am curious to know
what do you find so annoying about apt-get.

Portage is more flexible probably, but apt-get, with an appropriate
frontend like Synaptics, is a piece of cake: in 99% of cases is click &
go. And surely it makes more sense to use than rpm, on the command line
(let alone the crazy Slackware guys :) )

m.

[gentoo-user] Re: Considering launching into Gentoo

[walt]

bn wrote:
> walt ha scritto:
>> Ah, maybe that explains why I despise their package manager.
>>
>> When I was a Debian user I figured that the most basic of utilities
>> should be easy to use -- and I'm only half joking.
>>
>> Just for fun I tried Ubuntu recently since it's been so popular the
>> last few years.  They built their system on top of a Debian base,
>> including my nemesis, the Debian package management system :o(
>>
>> The Synaptics GUI front end for their package manager is a great deal
>> easier than the original back end, true, but the basic bad design of
>> the back end still glares through the eye candy.  (Just my opinion.)
>>
>> I like gentoo's portage system so-o-o-o much better!
>
> As a user of both Debian-based and Gentoo systems, I am curious to know
> what do you find so annoying about apt-get.

Heh.  I laughed out loud when I read this link about dselect, especially
the quote from Andrew Morton who captured my sentiments exactly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dselect

> Portage is more flexible probably, but apt-get, with an appropriate
> frontend like Synaptics, is a piece of cake: in 99% of cases is click&
> go.

Yes, if gentoo ever disappears (God forbid) I would probably go back to
Ubuntu because the Synaptics front end isn't too confusing.  But I'm
still annoyed by the idea that a binary package can be only 'partially
installed', whatever that means.  And why does a binary package need to
be "configured", whatever that means?

After I dropped dselect like a hot potato I used apt-get from the command
line routinely.  I recall that there were often conflicts between the newly
downloaded packages and the old installed ones, leaving the machine in an
undefined state for me to sort out however I could.

Perhaps Debian has matured a bit since then -- I certainly hope so!

> And surely it makes more sense to use than rpm, on the command line
> (let alone the crazy Slackware guys :) )

I can barely remember using Red Hat, and I've never used Slackware, so
I can't offer any comments either pro or con.

It's me and gentoo til death do us part.  And I hope I go first...

[gentoo-user] Re: Considering launching into Gentoo

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 06/14/2009 03:04 AM, walt wrote:
>> Portage is more flexible probably, but apt-get, with an appropriate
>> frontend like Synaptics, is a piece of cake: in 99% of cases is click&
>> go.
>
> Yes, if gentoo ever disappears (God forbid) I would probably go back to
> Ubuntu because the Synaptics front end isn't too confusing.

Fortunately there's Arch too ;)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Considering launching into Gentoo

[Mike Kazantsev]

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On Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:04:57 -0700
walt <w41ter@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's me and gentoo til death do us part.  And I hope I go first...

C'mon, something better might always come along, obsoleting gentoo,
like gentoo-ng ;)

-- 
Mike Kazantsev // fraggod.net

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Considering launching into Gentoo

[bn]

walt ha scritto:

> Heh.  I laughed out loud when I read this link about dselect, especially
> the quote from Andrew Morton who captured my sentiments exactly:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dselect

Oh well but it's kinda obvious that dselect is HELL and no one uses it
anymore I think. I thought you were using something like aptitude, which
is a bit clumsy but works well.

But for me synaptics is THE way to do a user-friendly software installer.

> Yes, if gentoo ever disappears (God forbid) I would probably go back to
> Ubuntu because the Synaptics front end isn't too confusing.  But I'm
> still annoyed by the idea that a binary package can be only 'partially
> installed', whatever that means.  And why does a binary package need to
> be "configured", whatever that means?

Good questions. As for the first, I guess it means apt-get finds a
conflict or something wrong happens during installing (Tried to google
but didn't find anything). As for the configuring, well, I guess it's
something like writing default configuration files, or when you have to
do dispatch-conf here.


> After I dropped dselect like a hot potato I used apt-get from the command
> line routinely.  I recall that there were often conflicts between the newly
> downloaded packages and the old installed ones, leaving the machine in an
> undefined state for me to sort out however I could.

Yes this is bad, but probably is more due to bad packaging than to the
packaging system itself (On Gentoo you have other troubles like having
to revdep-rebuild your system etc., so to each its own)

> Perhaps Debian has matured a bit since then -- I certainly hope so!

I can say that using Kubuntu at work was mostly a piece of cake. It is a
different system from Gentoo with different goals, of course.

m.

Re: [gentoo-user] Considering launching into Gentoo

[Peter Humphrey]

On Saturday 13 June 2009 14:02:26 AG wrote:

> How compatible are Gentoo and Debian in terms of using a shared /home
> directory - I am concerned about uid for the directory for instance
> which, if I changed it for Gentoo, may not work for Debian and vice
> versa.

I've run multi-boot systems too, and I shied away from sharing my home 
directory between them - there was too much risk of different versions of, 
say, kmail running in the two systems and clobbering each other's data. So 
I created a ~/common/ partition for things I wanted to be always available.

I still operate that way, even though I haven't made much use of any other 
distros in the last year or two.

-- 
Rgds
Peter