From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org ([208.92.234.80] helo=lists.gentoo.org) by finch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Lpv6I-0006S1-H3 for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:55:14 +0000 Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 64806E098A; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:55:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (smtp.gentoo.org [140.211.166.183]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 420C9E0977 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:55:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC5A865089 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:55:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at gentoo.org X-Spam-Score: -3.476 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.476 required=5.5 tests=[AWL=0.123, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp.gentoo.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P4WRDcI5XgEj for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:55:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0430D642A0 for ; Sat, 4 Apr 2009 01:55:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Lpv64-0004l1-SF for gentoo-user@gentoo.org; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:55:00 +0000 Received: from athedsl-4401574.home.otenet.gr ([79.130.153.150]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:55:00 +0000 Received: from realnc by athedsl-4401574.home.otenet.gr with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:55:00 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org From: Nikos Chantziaras Subject: [gentoo-user] Re: What annoys you? Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 04:54:55 +0300 Organization: Lucas Barks Message-ID: References: <200904032138.27789.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> <200904032215.40448.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: athedsl-4401574.home.otenet.gr User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (X11/20090320) In-Reply-To: <200904032215.40448.volkerarmin@googlemail.com> Sender: news X-Archives-Salt: c047c453-9864-4ac1-a124-48189b345634 X-Archives-Hash: 1825975c43b9bc41e4eb520c0327e023 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Friday 03 April 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >> Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: >>> On Friday 03 April 2009, Nikos Chantziaras wrote: >>>> Its installer. I would prefer something like Sabayon's installer (which >>>> is a Gentoo-based distro.) >>> there is no installer anymore. And that is a good thing. >> He asked what annoys me, and I answered truthfully :P > > yeah, but if you think about it for a moment you will see that an installer is > the WRONG THING and then you won't be annoyed anymore but glad. I thought about it and I would still like an installer. People asked me "I want that too" after they see what Gentoo can do and is about. I could help them learn to keep their Gentoo healthy and running, but I am not willing to install it for them or teach them how to install it themselves. Too much work. So from my observational point, the lack of an installer just means that people who would like to try Gentoo just don't, because the learning curve is too steep, beginning right at the installation. To learn, you need a system that already runs so you can learn that system. Gentoo needs to be installed by someone who already knows. Chicken and egg. If it wasn't for the GUI installer of the 2007 live DVD (it's what I used to install it), I wouldn't ever have installed Gentoo. I have a life. And so does the majority of other people. I learned Gentoo (and I think I learned it quite well) even while I used the GUI installer. And I believe even that I learned Gentoo the right way. I am proof that an installer doesn't only produce clueless Gentoo users.