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[74.188.244.178]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f15-20020a379c0f000000b0069bf3430cc4sm7435777qke.100.2022.04.12.11.22.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 Apr 2022 11:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive error from SMART To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <13443afe-5879-3108-a19a-9457c0b054d1@gmail.com> <590a0548-6121-f6b5-cac3-3bb9202f3b70@gmail.com> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 13:22:08 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/68.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.11.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 0a845637-391d-46ce-966c-28f956edd79b X-Archives-Hash: d10eec94424d9c9e15bb4274cc7c213c Laurence Perkins wrote: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Dale >> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 10:08 AM >> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org >> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive error from SMART >> >> Rich Freeman wrote: >>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2022 at 9:27 PM Dale wrote: >>>> Thoughts. Replace as soon as drive arrives or wait and see? >>>> >>> So, first of all just about all my hard drives are in a RAID at this >>> point, so I have a higher tolerance for issues. >>> >>> If a drive is under warranty I'll usually try to see if they will RMA >>> it. More often than not they will, and in that case there is really >>> no reason not to. I'll do advance shipping and replace the drive >>> before sending the old one back so that I mostly have redundancy the >>> whole time. >>> >>> If it isn't under warranty then I'll scrub it and see what happens. >>> I'll of course do SMART self-tests, but usually an error like this >>> won't actually clear until you overwrite the offline sector so that >>> the drive can reallocate it. A RAID scrub/resilver/etc will overwrite >>> the sector with the correct contents which will allow this to happen. >>> (Otherwise there is no way for the drive to recover - if it knew what >>> was stored there it wouldn't have an error in the first place.) >>> >>> If an error comes back then I'll replace the drive. My drives are >>> pretty large at this point so I don't like keeping unreliable drives >>> around. It just increases the risk of double failures, given that a >>> large hard drive can take more than a day to replace. Write speeds >>> just don't keep pace with capacities. I do have offline backups but I >>> shudder at the thought of how long one of those would take to restore. >>> >> >> Sadly, I don't have RAID here but to be honest, I really need to have it given the data and my recent luck with hard drives. Drives used to get dumped because they were just to small to use anymore. Nowadays, they seem to break in some fashion long before their usefulness ends their lives. >> >> I remounted the drives and did a backup. For anyone running up on this, just in case one of the files got corrupted, I used a little trick to see if I can figure out which one may be bad if any. I took my rsync commands from my little script and ran them one at a time with --dry-run added. If a file was to be updated on the backup that I hadn't changed or added, I was going to check into it before updating my backups. It could be that the backup file was still good and the file on my drive reporting problems was bad. In that case, I would determine which was good and either restore it from backups or allow it to be updated if needed. Either way, I should have a good file since the drive claims to have fixed the problem. Now let us pray. :-D >> >> Drive isn't under warranty. I may have to start buying new drives from dealers. Sometimes I find drives that are pulled from systems and have very few hours on them. Still, warranty may not last long. Saves a lot of money tho. >> >> USPS claims drive is on the way. Left a distribution point and should update again when it gets close. First said Saturday, then said Friday. I think Friday is about right but if the wind blows right, maybe Thursday. >> >> I hope I have another port and power cable plug for the swap out. At least now, I can unmount it and swap without a lot of rebooting. Since it's on LVM, that part is easy. Regretfully I have experience on that process. :/ >> >> Thanks to all. >> >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) >> >> > You can get up to 16X SATA PCI-e cards these days for pretty cheap. So as long as you have the power to run another drive or two there's not much reason not to do RAID on the important stuff. Also, the SATA protocol allows for port expanders, which are also pretty cheap. > > One of my favorite things about BTRFS is the data checksums. If the drive returns garbage, it turns into a read error. Also, if you can't do real RAID, but have excess space you can tell it to keep two copies of everything. Doesn't help with total drive failure, but does protect against the occasional failed sector. If you don't mind writes taking twice as long anyway. > > LMP I looked into a card a good while back and they were pretty pricey at the time.  You happen to have some search terms I can search for on ebay, Amazon etc?  I know some chipsets work better on Linux out of the box.  I don't need to buy one that doesn't work or only works with the threat of a sledge hammer.  lol  I've also looked into that other thing, SAS? or something.  It's been a while tho.  I'm pretty good at doing backups.  I do Gentoo updates on Saturday, and sometimes Sunday.  While the updates are downloading, I update my backups.  It's almost like a religion for me.  I was just more cautious earlier.  I suspect a file could be corrupted somewhere but wanted to be sure it wasn't something important.  I have some files that if lost, I may not can download again.  They don't exist.  A few I got from some Govt archive that are really old but since removed, or at least I can't find them anymore.  I've given serious thought to switching to BTRFS.  Thing is, I'm still trying to get LVM figured out.  Plus, LVM is well maintained and should be for a good long while, plus it works for me.  Still, if I could afford to have several new drives all at once, I'd certainly play with it.  It could very well be better.  The one thing I wish, LVM had a GUI where you could do everything from it.  During my recent rearrangement of drives, I learned that you can't do a lot of things within webmin.  It does some things but not everything.  Plus, you have to have a running GUI to use it.  In that case, I had to unmount /home which meant no KDE, so no Webmin either.  Still, that could cause trouble too.  I dunno.  Thanks. Dale :-)  :-)