From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB274158042 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2024 12:20:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D356EE0A5E; Fri, 15 Nov 2024 12:19:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yb1-xb34.google.com (mail-yb1-xb34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b34]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BED6E0A46 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2024 12:19:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yb1-xb34.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e381460f782so1511968276.1 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2024 04:19:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1731673198; x=1732277998; darn=lists.gentoo.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:from:references:to:subject:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VflSoo6qcq1ORJkfw45SqghZDCFSJUoNdrHwbDJHCck=; b=e4cnXXVn9PatkgXc5pFl4ehGW7jNCGHzDc5hKHnNboSixXAPah0oaFiYAX2ZFuLE9F e6bhbu72531sZNZDgMt6gB2/m92aIyEv3DizGtLQcPx+a6DRIceOHuFqg7sBCdb8tYVK QuiH9lSeBqo9UBvvhaq6QPKNeWmm/KYftYUr70aVmTJATLGWn5A0qWQ1uKEdBNZVs3BM 8y8+wXoGHteY7eNNbwX0lmqEf5IaPuzZ5/iaIIQnXp5HVNJxJ3wPxHbo7a83Bftm3hcT LD7yx3QT2tGI6HyNTH/OoSuB286DfO5iKSr+vt4Wb0d02ukjLR9zRWXT5eAA6MT2fVrd Witg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1731673198; x=1732277998; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:date :message-id:autocrypt:from:references:to:subject:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VflSoo6qcq1ORJkfw45SqghZDCFSJUoNdrHwbDJHCck=; b=lJPyEVX2SaiI3r7nYrK1ZD7rfTjj8/7my4/FfFbG544j6fg+z7o9IKOkG9w3biOsr9 qiHi7IWDHUN0xYyGRen2L8VQabGEFhWWlEvqnk4KKBeBZAca37Iw0HYaTVmScQ3GxV3b fy13ych4rBPQiSPRhBTm5zsf4o7YmgRlz+k8kPheYZO7rdlSppKpqR0Waf6Bn1rpmGXu lnIgcd6mT7dQBES2segRfOA1xhkv1Bf9L9K1WKWsdNHig1oV8CGDO4xUKVUlB9mNyAvL 2oH0VqZXI3bidRMGs3v3wdmF1QYJUCWzlqClFi3K1pHJ+9nJSXI6GXSkqZJzyAXJln6r x20w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yx0BaPI0JFQE+jWY8xMNxbo9BsYvtrlmXHQCPs9nN/EMgfqkey9 vANPXLUKsfmZQBSAk0JtB+MAMt3Fj3rZt9A0i6189ESyra7MfIfqYOnAsQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH9ioPUw9MWuR//rVUVAYvRP48VVs6n5Lj4+697gtQlWzXw8VD8TpNJTrpzPBE6Qu/0NBk4IQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:240b:b0:e38:529b:b0ae with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e38529bb4aamr594917276.35.1731673197844; Fri, 15 Nov 2024 04:19:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.8.10] ([92.119.19.11]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 3f1490d57ef6-e382a74f08csm350078276.53.2024.11.15.04.19.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 15 Nov 2024 04:19:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Seagate hard drives with dual actuators. To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <4992312.GXAFRqVoOG@schatulle> From: Dale Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2024 06:19:55 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/91.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.19 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4992312.GXAFRqVoOG@schatulle> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 0c2524cd-26f3-4afb-9856-b00eb431f8c9 X-Archives-Hash: 2676b19553ff2d3c0d60eab24d24e527 Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Freitag, 15. November 2024, 06:53:53 Mitteleuropäische Normalzeit schrieb > Dale: >> Rich Freeman wrote: >>> On Thu, Nov 14, 2024 at 6:10 PM Dale wrote: >>>> The biggest downside to the large drives available now, even if SMART >>>> tells you a drive is failing, you likely won't have time to copy the >>>> data over to a new drive before it fails. On a 18TB drive, using >>>> pvmove, it can take a long time to move data. >>>> […] >> I think I did some math on this once. I'm not positive on this and it >> could vary depending on system ability of moving data. I think about >> 8TB is as large as you want if you get a 24 hour notice from SMART and >> see that notice fairly quickly to act on. Anything beyond that and you >> may not have enough time to move data, if the data is even good still. > I have 6 TB drives in my NAS, good ol’ WD Reds from before SMR time. When I > scrub them, i.e. read the whole of their data out sequentially at 80 % > capacity (so effectively around 5 TB), it takes 10½ hours. Looks like your > math adds up. Maybe 10 or even 12 TB would also still work in that time > window. Recently I switched from ZFS’s Raid6 to Raid5 because of said 80 % > occupancy and I needed more space, but had neither any free slots left nor > wanted to buy new hardware. Fingers crossed … > Given the notice could be sent when one is not looking and may not be seen for a while, I'd error on smaller not larger.  Some systems could be faster than others as well.  Since I use LVM so much, I time pvmove.  That is what I would use anyway.  If one uses some other tool, it would be good to time with that tool.  It could be faster or slower.  I suspect the drive would likely be the limit but one needs to test to be sure.  >>>> I don't even want to think what it would cost to put >>>> all my 100TBs or so on SSD or NVME drives. WOW!!! >>> # kubectl rook-ceph ceph osd df class ssd >>> ID CLASS WEIGHT REWEIGHT SIZE RAW USE DATA OMAP >>> META AVAIL %USE VAR PGS STATUS >>> >>> 8 ssd 6.98630 1.00000 7.0 TiB 1.7 TiB 1.7 TiB 63 MiB 3.9 >>> >>> GiB 5.3 TiB 24.66 1.04 179 up >>> […] >> I do wish there was a easy way to make columns work when we copy and >> paste into email. :/ > For special cases like this I think we wouldn’t mind using HTML mail. Or > simply disable automatic wrapping and use long lines of text for the entire > message. The client can then decide where to wrap. > > I know it’s like a religious debate whether to wrap at <80 columns (please > don’t start one here), but there is actually an automatism for this: if you > end the line with a space, you can still wrap you text statically at <80 > columns, but the space tells the client that it may wrap here or not. I forgot > the name of it though, I learned about it in the mutt user group. > > For me it’s easier: as I use vim in mutt. I usually let it do the wrapping for > me (including the mechanism I described). But I can disable wrapping on-the- > fly, so I can paste longer terminal output. > >> Dale >> >> :-) :-) I've tried to make things look right before and most of the time, it either gets worse or does something really weird, it double wrapped once.  I never sent that double wrapped one but it was weird looking.  I have Seamonkey set to convert to text only to anything sent to a @gentoo.org address.  Even if I compose it in HTML, it will convert it to text only when sending.  I have thought of using screenshots, images.  The bad thing there, can't copy and paste it.  Plus, some don't like large emails and images can't make one larger than usual.  It seems one can't win for losing.  LOL  Dale :-)  :-)  P. S.  I feel like I am forgetting to mention something.  My poor brain.  :-(