From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E83201580B9 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:14:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B67A9E0A10; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:14:27 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.teknik.io (mail.teknik.io [5.79.72.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4BEBE07A5 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:14:26 +0000 (UTC) dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=teknik.io; s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; h=From:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:In-Reply-To:References; bh=noMuO2IXzEAAqa5U9wbes5ZZrW6kLRlje947SXNNy4w=; b=UMDclv1ygu1Vg8Q9IX0Drg3EIKE/xxa5c1unBlBj+GJF6PCVysxb2yLq5yitrp/JaYqKLipi5b3xd6ijk28ArzDY10apZ5VjE1R8+dG2rmXx5L50fUKU2TDBEglGOatEH1L10FiLK7yplznHCAW7uv0ZpulUYwtBQSS0yRRStQC/Rv66lRXmCTS74oq5t8Ve4egvWni5iqnRba1kR5D2wdACAYWVn7rtbjJddKNo+O8X1WnlbOzE2ea6yx VkujkIXPPn5IVuWas9SpBBNfvYVwbauz6h/pmbrEtjwbLIF9MwwJNjIc7VLBX/AOAfvAhE59vWfb7BEJwBFe4Jnlsnsw== Received: from mail.teknik.io (TEKNIK-SERVER [5.79.72.163]) by mail.teknik.io with ESMTPSA (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128) ; Mon, 23 Aug 2021 09:14:25 -0700 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:14:25 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: RainLoop/1.11.3 From: "Vitor Hugo Nunes dos Santos" Message-ID: Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] X11 without udev/eudev To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org In-Reply-To: <20210823160738.208C58517F54@turkos.aspodata.se> References: <20210823160738.208C58517F54@turkos.aspodata.se> <20210821201720.13F158517F49@turkos.aspodata.se> <20210822203110.5C6BB8517F53@turkos.aspodata.se> <18ae899b-a172-75ce-b7e5-b998fb672f46@youngman.org.uk> X-Archives-Salt: 7669d499-c10c-449d-bbc7-cbeb82208591 X-Archives-Hash: 2ed95ff114198492fc993051cab6b8fd Based Karl=0A=0AKeep the bloaties at bay=0ARock on=0A=0AAugust 23, 2021 1= :08 PM, karl@aspodata.se wrote:=0A=0A> Dr. Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s:= =0A> ...=0A> =0A>> Where do you get that impression from? The OP needs ha= ndling keyboard and=0A>> mouse (as per his first email), and to do that i= n Linux these days, you=0A>> basically need udev, because xf86-input-mous= e and xf86-input-keyboard are=0A>> going the way of the dodo.=0A> =0A> It= is inconvenient that thoose two goes away.=0A> Regarding udev, it has ne= ver supported serial mice, so it doesn't help=0A> me.=0A> =0A> ...=0A>> M= y point is that it's not his call; it's the call of the developers of the= =0A>> software that he decided to use.=0A> =0A> Poeple write whatever sof= tware they want to or are paid to do.=0A> It is my call if I want to use = that software or not.=0A> =0A>> Yes I take your point, but bloat is bloat= , and bloat is a liability.=0A>> =0A>> There is no bloat; the developers = *need* to handle the dynamic hardware=0A>> case *and* the static hardware= case. With udev, they handle both; otherwise=0A>> there would be two cod= e routes: one for static and another for dynamic=0A>> hardware.=0A> =0A> = ...=0A> =0A> As I wrote before, udev does not handle serial mice, so udev= does not=0A> solve anything for me nor does it help me in any way to run= my systems.=0A> Udev is just something pushed on me for no gain except p= ossible to=0A> satisfy some dependancy touted to be beneficial. So in thi= s very=0A> specific case it can be considered "bloat" if you wish to use = that=0A> kind of words.=0A> =0A> My guess is that it is more useful on la= ptop than on a desktop box=0A> or an industrial computer.=0A> =0A> ///=0A= > =0A> As a side note, from what I understand, udev today is mostly about= =0A> usb-devices because that is where the dynamic hardware comes from=0A= > today (at least when we are not talking about hotplugging cpus,=0A> mem= ory cards, io-cards and such (but that is more of a enterprise=0A> proble= m than a small system problem.=0A> =0A> Serial ports are darn easy to imp= lement in hardware and=0A> softwere.=0A> =0A> E.g. if I have a program co= nnecting to a device using a serial=0A> and it is disconnected, I can jus= t reconnect it and nothing=0A> special happens, noting to be done in soft= ware except logging.=0A> The same device via usb, the dis-/reconnect will= close the=0A> port and make it vanish forcing med to find out find out w= here the=0A> new /dev file is and reopen and reinitialize it.=0A> In hard= ware, mcu's without usb are cheap and their serial port=0A> are simpe to = program and the serial port "stack" is vanishingly small.=0A> Just look a= t the tty_* files in=0A> http://aspodata.se/git/openhw/libarm=0A> http://= aspodata.se/git/openhw/libarm/stm32=0A> For usb support, I need an usb st= ack (which is larger), e.g.=0A> https://github.com/libopencm3/libopencm3/= tree/master/lib/usb=0A> I need to understand the usb protocol and all tho= ose structs to fill=0A> in, and in the end I get a system that is harder = to program on the=0A> host side for no gain other than that +5V is provid= ed by usb.=0A> =0A> Regards,=0A> /Karl Hammar