[gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Jeff Rollin]

Hi lugs, 

Sorry for the cryptic headline but wanted to keep the suspense; sorry for 
crossposting too but this is important!

/Dell has announced it WILL be shipping preinstalled Desktop Linux on certain 
machines, desktop and laptop/ - more details will follow later.

Happily, it seems that "[s]urvey respondents indicated that improved hardware 
support for Linux is as important as the distribution(s) offered".

So, don't expect to see your favourite distribution on a Dell Linux laptop 
anytime soon - unless it's Ubuntu ;-) - but hey, IT'S LINUX.

Unfortunately, as stated above there are no more details as yet but they will 
be making more announcements in the coming weeks.

UPDATE: just had to add "preinstalled" to Kmail's dictionary! (Oh, and Ubuntu 
- never mind ;-) ) <does a little dance>.

OK, silly season over, get back to work ;-)

Jeff
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RE: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Kellystewart00]

Let me kick this off by saying sorry for top posting its my blackberry...

This is good news very very good news but then again its a dell... Ill be very intererested to see how long this is going to take to roll it out!
Sent via BlackBerry® from Vodafone  

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@gmail.com>

Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:49:00 
To:Tyneside LUG <general@tyneside.lug.org.uk>, gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org,       linux@lists.ukuug.org
Subject: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai


Hi lugs, 

Sorry for the cryptic headline but wanted to keep the suspense; sorry for 
crossposting too but this is important!

/Dell has announced it WILL be shipping preinstalled Desktop Linux on certain 
machines, desktop and laptop/ - more details will follow later.

Happily, it seems that "[s]urvey respondents indicated that improved hardware 
support for Linux is as important as the distribution(s) offered".

So, don't expect to see your favourite distribution on a Dell Linux laptop 
anytime soon - unless it's Ubuntu ;-) - but hey, IT'S LINUX.

Unfortunately, as stated above there are no more details as yet but they will 
be making more announcements in the coming weeks.

UPDATE: just had to add "preinstalled" to Kmail's dictionary! (Oh, and Ubuntu 
- never mind ;-) ) <does a little dance>.

OK, silly season over, get back to work ;-)

Jeff
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Jeff Rollin]

In the last episode, you wrote:
HH>
HH> In order to not get the deserved re-spammed like now, a few hints you
HH> probably know anyway:
HH> - Stop Cross-Posting. Seriously.
HH> - Stop redefining "importance".

So, preinstalled Linux is not important to you? Mind explaining why?

HH> - Mark OT posts OT.

How is this off-topic?

Jeff
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[gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[»Q«]

In <news:200703291143.23327.jeff.rollin@gmail.com>,
Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, preinstalled Linux is not important to you? Mind explaining why?

I'm not the one you asked, but preinstalled Linux isn't important to
me.  There are plenty of GNU/Linux users who aren't evangelists.

(I would like to stop getting spam from pwned Windows boxes, but I
expect spammers to find a way to pump it out even if all Windows boxes
are removed from the 'net.)

-- 
»Q«

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Bo Ørsted Andresen]

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On Thursday 29 March 2007 12:43:22 Jeff Rollin wrote:
> HH> In order to not get the deserved re-spammed like now, a few hints you
> HH> probably know anyway:
> HH> - Stop Cross-Posting. Seriously.
> HH> - Stop redefining "importance".

Agreed.

> So, preinstalled Linux is not important to you? Mind explaining why?

Because Linux is free? Either way that's besides the point.

> HH> - Mark OT posts OT.
>
> How is this off-topic?

This isn't a general Linux list. It's a Gentoo specific support list. There 
are others medias much more suited for that kind of information.

-- 
Bo Andresen

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:58:20 -0500, »Q« wrote:

> > So, preinstalled Linux is not important to you? Mind explaining why?  
> 
> I'm not the one you asked, but preinstalled Linux isn't important to
> me.  There are plenty of GNU/Linux users who aren't evangelists.

There are two reasons why it would be good for you, even if you intend to
replace the installed Linux with something better:

1) You know that all the hardware works with Linux. If they supply driver
   for Ubuntu, you can get them for Gentoo (unless Dell do something
   horrid like using ndiswrapper)

2) You don't have to pay for a Windows licence.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Iraqi terrorist, Khay Rahnajet, didn't pay enough postage on a
letter bomb. It came back with "return to sender" stamped on it.
Forgetting it was the bomb, he opened it and was blown to bits.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Richard Cox]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2007 at 11:43:22AM +0100, Jeff Rollin wrote:
> So, preinstalled Linux is not important to you? Mind explaining why?

I'd have to say its definatly not important to me.  As it is, I never use a 'generic' install, so I wouldn't want to have a preinstalled version.  Just means that there are going to be a bunch of factory default root passwords out there coming off the Dell assembly line.  (I guess they could randomize it or prompt for a new password on first boot, but my guess is they won't).

So being that this is a Gentoo list, I'm going to go with a guess that nobody on here has the same install between them, because.. well its Gentoo :)

And second have you bought a windows machine from DELL anytime recently, they load them full of their crap and you pretty much have to do a fresh install anyways to get rid of it.  I'm willing to bet they'll do the same to Linux preinstall as well.

Would I like to see Linux prosper, sure.  This may even be a good step for it, but its not really relevent to this list.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Jeff Rollin]

In the last episode, Richard Cox wrote:
RC> On Thu, Mar 29, 2007 at 11:43:22AM +0100, Jeff Rollin wrote:
RC> > So, preinstalled Linux is not important to you? Mind explaining why?
RC>
RC> I'd have to say its definatly not important to me.  As it is, I never use
 a 'generic' install, so I wouldn't want to have a preinstalled version. 
 Just means that there are going to be a bunch of factory default root
 passwords out there coming off the Dell assembly line.  (I guess they could
 randomize it or prompt for a new password on first boot, but my guess is
 they won't). RC>
RC> So being that this is a Gentoo list, I'm going to go with a guess that
 nobody on here has the same install between them, because.. well its Gentoo
 :) RC>

True enough - however I support this because it gets rid of the Windows tax.

RC> And second have you bought a windows machine from DELL anytime recently,
 they load them full of their crap and you pretty much have to do a fresh
 install anyways to get rid of it.  I'm willing to bet they'll do the same to
 Linux preinstall as well. RC>

Again, all true - but if we can get well-supported Linux-compatible laptops 
from mainstream vendors without the Windows tax, imo even if we have to 
install Gentoo ourselves, it's all good.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Jeff Rollin]

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In the last episode, »Q« wrote:
»Q> In <news:200703291143.23327.jeff.rollin@gmail.com>,
»Q> Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@gmail.com> wrote:
»Q>
»Q> > So, preinstalled Linux is not important to you? Mind explaining why?
»Q>
»Q> I'm not the one you asked, but preinstalled Linux isn't important to
»Q> me.  There are plenty of GNU/Linux users who aren't evangelists.
»Q>
I take it that by evangelists you mean "people who want boxen which are 
well-supported by Linux and don't have software they don't need".

Jeff

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[gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[»Q«]

In <news:20070329213233.7b41fba5@hactar.digimed.co.uk>,
Neil Bothwick <neil@digimed.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:58:20 -0500, »Q« wrote:
> 
> > > So, preinstalled Linux is not important to you? Mind explaining
> > > why?    
> > 
> > I'm not the one you asked, but preinstalled Linux isn't important to
> > me.  There are plenty of GNU/Linux users who aren't evangelists.  
> 
> There are two reasons why it would be good for you, even if you
> intend to replace the installed Linux with something better:
> 
> 1) You know that all the hardware works with Linux. If they supply
> driver for Ubuntu, you can get them for Gentoo (unless Dell do
> something horrid like using ndiswrapper)

Already I know that the hardware I buy will work with Gentoo.  If I got
a Dell with preinstalled GNU/Linux, I could know that without engaging
$searchengine, but avoiding searches isn't important to me.

> 2) You don't have to pay for a Windows licence.

Already I don't have to pay for a Windows license.

-- 
»Q«

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[gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[»Q«]

In <news:200703292224.57215.jeff.rollin@gmail.com>,
Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@gmail.com> wrote:

> In the last episode, »Q« wrote:

> »Q> I'm not the one you asked, but preinstalled Linux isn't important
> »Q> to  me.  There are plenty of GNU/Linux users who aren't
> »Q> evangelists. 
> I take it that by evangelists you mean "people who want boxen which
> are well-supported by Linux and don't have software they don't need".

No.  What Dell ships won't have any effect on whether or not I can get
such a box.

Okay, the laptop /did/ come with software I don't need, but neither is
that important to me.

-- 
»Q«

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:20:27 -0500, »Q« wrote:

> > 1) You know that all the hardware works with Linux. If they supply
> > driver for Ubuntu, you can get them for Gentoo (unless Dell do
> > something horrid like using ndiswrapper)  
> 
> Already I know that the hardware I buy will work with Gentoo.  If I got
> a Dell with preinstalled GNU/Linux, I could know that without engaging
> $searchengine, but avoiding searches isn't important to me.

That's all but impossible with a laptop, unless the shop lets you boot it
with a live CD before you buy, because manufacturers change chipsets
without changing the model name.

> > 2) You don't have to pay for a Windows licence.  
> 
> Already I don't have to pay for a Windows license.

It is very difficult to buy a laptop without one. This is a non-issue for
desktops, where you can build your own using known components, but it is
a good step for those needing laptops, or for companies that want
warrantied pre-built hardware.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

WinErr 002: No Error - Yet

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[gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Grant Edwards]

On 2007-03-29, Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, preinstalled Linux is not important to you?

No.

> Mind explaining why?

Because they won't have installed it they way I want it
installed.

I would be interested in a machine with no OS that's certified
to be Linux compatible, but I have no interest in paying
somebody to install some Linux distro I don't want just so I
can wipe it and install what I do want.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I hope I
                                  at               bought the right
                               visi.com            relish... zzzzzzzzz...

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[gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Grant Edwards]

On 2007-03-29, Jeff Rollin <jeff.rollin@gmail.com> wrote:

> Again, all true - but if we can get well-supported
> Linux-compatible laptops from mainstream vendors without the
> Windows tax, imo even if we have to install Gentoo ourselves,
> it's all good.

That's why I did buy a Laptop with Linux pre-installed for my
first laptop.  For it's replacement, I did buy one with Windows
installed, but I made sure it was a model that was available
with Linux pre-installed just to be confident that Linux would
work well.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  QUIET!! I'm being
                                  at               CREATIVE!! Is it GREAT
                               visi.com            yet? It's s'posed to SMOKEY
                                                   THE BEAR...

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Jeff Rollin]

In the last episode, Neil Bothwick wrote:
NB> On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 17:20:27 -0500, »Q« wrote:
NB>
NB> > > 1) You know that all the hardware works with Linux. If they supply
NB> > > driver for Ubuntu, you can get them for Gentoo (unless Dell do
NB> > > something horrid like using ndiswrapper)
NB> >
NB> > Already I know that the hardware I buy will work with Gentoo.  If I got
NB> > a Dell with preinstalled GNU/Linux, I could know that without engaging
NB> > $searchengine, but avoiding searches isn't important to me.
NB>
NB> That's all but impossible with a laptop, unless the shop lets you boot it
NB> with a live CD before you buy, because manufacturers change chipsets
NB> without changing the model name.
NB>

Indeed - and that's even assuming you buy from a shop (that you walk into). 
Here in the UK, companies that sell preloaded Linux are as rare as hen's 
teeth, and though I can cope with written German, there are linguistic issues 
which would be involved if I bought a laptop from Germany and experienced 
problems - aside from the legal issues which would worry me buying either 
from there or the States. (What happens if it gets damaged in transit? Would 
they be liable for not living up to the guarantee? Is there a warranty that 
covers international customers? If I have to take legal action, where would I 
file a suit? etc.) Whatever happens, there's very little chance my next 
laptop purchase won't be made on line, so no liveCD testing possible.

Jeff
-- 
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.

Richard Phillips Feynman, American physicist, 11/5/18-15/2/88
--
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Jeff Rollin]

In the last episode, Jeff Rollin wrote:

JR> Indeed - and that's even assuming you buy from a shop (that you walk 
into). 
JR> Here in the UK, companies that sell preloaded Linux are as rare as hen's 
JR> teeth, and though I can cope with written German, there are linguistic 
issues 
JR> which would be involved if I bought a laptop from Germany and experienced 
JR> problems - aside from the legal issues which would worry me buying either 
JR> from there or the States. (What happens if it gets damaged in transit? 
Would 
JR> they be liable for not living up to the guarantee? Is there a warranty 
that 
JR> covers international customers?  If I have to take legal action, where 
would I 
JR> file a suit? etc.)  Whatever happens, there's very little chance my next 
JR> laptop purchase won't be made on line, so no liveCD testing possible. 
JR>

And then there's cases like the one below to consider, where a vendor 
certifies a computer as being compatible with Linux, but installing Linux 
voids the guarantee:

http://enterprise.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/23/1430204&tid=3&tid=7

Jeff
-- 
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.

Richard Phillips Feynman, American physicist, 11/5/18-15/2/88
--
-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Dan Farrell]

Tempers flare over ... preinstalled linux distros?

The fact is, Linux needs some evangelists right now.  I for one would
love to see microsoft's market saturation drop some, and I don't think
I have to explain how much that would help the open source commutity,
the internet, and the whole IT industry worldwide.  At the risk of
being melodramatic, I insist that the stranglehold over PCs that
windows holds must end.

If only people would continue to build momentum for linux as a viable
commodity OS, then we could move to a point where people would be
comfortable with it in their offices too, and only then will the
hardware industry really have to respond in kind.  

The neat computers in the world today deserver Linux, and let's face
it, we all deserve to be gurus on 90% of computers and not 5%.  

Sure, I don't want to by a ubuntu install either, but still, I argue
that it's a big step in a good direction.  I hope y'all agree with
that.  

Death to Tyrants!  Long live open source!  Long live Linux!

Sincerely, Dan Farrell.  
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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Michael Sullivan]

On Fri, 2007-03-30 at 13:27 -0500, Dan Farrell wrote:
> Tempers flare over ... preinstalled linux distros?
> 
> The fact is, Linux needs some evangelists right now.  I for one would
> love to see microsoft's market saturation drop some, and I don't think
> I have to explain how much that would help the open source commutity,
> the internet, and the whole IT industry worldwide.  At the risk of
> being melodramatic, I insist that the stranglehold over PCs that
> windows holds must end.

Microsoft themselves have done a lot to aid in the cause to end
Microsoft's rule.  Windows Vista is a flop.  I've heard that MS Office
'07 is too.  People are looking for an alternate solution.  Mac has
begun advertising again.  Word of mouth is our best marketing tool now.
Sure there are tons of Linux websites out there, but Microsoft's primary
advantage is that people think they're the only OS out there.  If you
tell people about Linux, at least a few of them will research it and
might make the switch...
> 
> If only people would continue to build momentum for linux as a viable
> commodity OS, then we could move to a point where people would be
> comfortable with it in their offices too, and only then will the
> hardware industry really have to respond in kind.  
> 
> The neat computers in the world today deserver Linux, and let's face
> it, we all deserve to be gurus on 90% of computers and not 5%.  
> 
> Sure, I don't want to by a ubuntu install either, but still, I argue
> that it's a big step in a good direction.  I hope y'all agree with
> that.  
> 
> Death to Tyrants!  Long live open source!  Long live Linux!
> 
> Sincerely, Dan Farrell.  

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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Richard Cox]

On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 01:27:44PM -0500, Dan Farrell wrote:
> Tempers flare over ... preinstalled linux distros?

I don't think tempers are flaring at all.  :)  I'm always willing to discuss this stuff, the issue is if this is relevent to this exact list or not.  Maybe if dell had annouced they were going to preinstall gentoo on their machines it would be more relevent.  

Since this thread seems to be gathering alot of opinions, I have no problem with it anymore tho.  Purely for the fact that its now interesting.  I may be the minority on that however.

> 
> The fact is, Linux needs some evangelists right now.  I for one would
> love to see microsoft's market saturation drop some, and I don't think
> I have to explain how much that would help the open source commutity,
> the internet, and the whole IT industry worldwide.  At the risk of
> being melodramatic, I insist that the stranglehold over PCs that
> windows holds must end.

I'm probably going to get called out for this, and feel free to flame away, but why does it have to come to an end?  You use the right tool for the right job.  Windows is common and lots of people know it, so for them its the right tool.  I'm willing to admit that.  If they're willing to take up the advantages / disadvantages of deploying it, good for them.  For us here, we could probably get the same task done in linux, and thats fine too.   

To use an overly exagerated quote.. "Why can't we all just get along?"

> If only people would continue to build momentum for linux as a viable
> commodity OS, then we could move to a point where people would be
> comfortable with it in their offices too, and only then will the
> hardware industry really have to respond in kind.  

Unfortunatly I do have to agree with you there, getting more people using linux is probably the best wayt o get the hardware industry more onboard with drivers, etc.  But I'm willing to bet that if they did come on board, they would all be closed source binary drivers.  So I'm a bit torn here.

> The neat computers in the world today deserver Linux, and let's face
> it, we all deserve to be gurus on 90% of computers and not 5%.  

I'm truthfully okay with being in that 5%.  Maybe its just my elite-ism poking out its evil little head here.  Being a primarily linux guy has never been a hinderance to me, even if I am the minority.  

> Sure, I don't want to by a ubuntu install either, but still, I argue
> that it's a big step in a good direction.  I hope y'all agree with
> that.  

I think its still to early to say if its good or not.  It all depends on the implimentation.  I could be good, it could go horribly horribly wrong.  Time will tell.  :)
 
> Death to Tyrants!  Long live open source!  Long live Linux!

Long live to whatever works!

> 
> Sincerely, Dan Farrell.  
> -- 
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list


:)

Take me with a grain of salt, sometimes I babble.
Richard Cox
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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Freitag, 30. März 2007, Dan Farrell wrote:

>
> The neat computers in the world today deserver Linux, and let's face
> it, we all deserve to be gurus on 90% of computers and not 5%.
>
> Sure, I don't want to by a ubuntu install either, but still, I argue
> that it's a big step in a good direction.  I hope y'all agree with
> that.

5% is totally ok for me, if 90% marketshare means ubuntu- or 
linspireisation.... I mean no real root (ubuntu), or default user is root 
(linspire, is that still true?), is concentrated bullshit. No thank you.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Friday 30 March 2007, "Hemmann, Volker Armin" 
<volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] Eez 
a byootiful dai todai':
> On Freitag, 30. März 2007, Dan Farrell wrote:
> > The neat computers in the world today deserver Linux, and let's face
> > it, we all deserve to be gurus on 90% of computers and not 5%.
>
> 5% is totally ok for me, if 90% marketshare means ubuntu
> I mean no real root (ubuntu),

This is silly, Ubuntu has just as much of a root as any other linux, it 
just randomizes/expires the password instead of prompting you for one by 
default.  A simple 'sudo passwd' will fix let you login or su to root.  Of 
course, you might as well just use 'sudo -s'.

Personally, I use Kubuntu on my laptop and have never had a reason to 
change root's password from the default.  Even on my Gentoo desktop, I use 
sudo (and my user password) 100x more often than su/login and the root 
password.

The choice to not ask for root's password during installation was amde for 
good reason.  One less question makes the installation easier and faster, 
and providing the randomized password + sudo access increases or at least 
does not decrease security afforded by the "old" Debian way (which ends up 
prompting for two passwords; each twice).

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.                     ,= ,-_-. =. 
bss03@volumehost.net                      ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy           `-'(. .)`-' 
http://iguanasuicide.org/                      \_/     

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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Hemmann, Volker Armin]

On Freitag, 30. März 2007, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> On Friday 30 March 2007, "Hemmann, Volker Armin"
> <volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de> wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] Eez
>
> a byootiful dai todai':
> > On Freitag, 30. März 2007, Dan Farrell wrote:
> > > The neat computers in the world today deserver Linux, and let's face
> > > it, we all deserve to be gurus on 90% of computers and not 5%.
> >
> > 5% is totally ok for me, if 90% marketshare means ubuntu
> > I mean no real root (ubuntu),
>
> This is silly, Ubuntu has just as much of a root as any other linux, it
> just randomizes/expires the password instead of prompting you for one by
> default.  A simple 'sudo passwd' will fix let you login or su to root.  Of
> course, you might as well just use 'sudo -s'.
>
> Personally, I use Kubuntu on my laptop and have never had a reason to
> change root's password from the default.  Even on my Gentoo desktop, I use
> sudo (and my user password) 100x more often than su/login and the root
> password.
>
> The choice to not ask for root's password during installation was amde for
> good reason.  One less question makes the installation easier and faster,
> and providing the randomized password + sudo access increases or at least
> does not decrease security afforded by the "old" Debian way (which ends up
> prompting for two passwords; each twice).

one question makes soooo much of a difference. And instead of two passwords, 
one never entered in X, an attacker only needs to capture your user password, 
which is typed in douzends of time, to f* up your machine....

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Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Jeff Rollin]

In the last episode, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

BS>
BS> Personally, I use Kubuntu on my laptop and have never had a reason to
BS> change root's password from the default.  Even on my Gentoo desktop, I
 use BS> sudo (and my user password) 100x more often than su/login and the
 root BS> password.
BS>
BS> The choice to not ask for root's password during installation was amde
 for BS> good reason.  One less question makes the installation easier and
 faster, BS> and providing the randomized password + sudo access increases or
 at least BS> does not decrease security afforded by the "old" Debian way
 (which ends up BS> prompting for two passwords; each twice).
BS>

It is also possible to use sudo by passing it the root password - I myself do 
this, and it is more secure.

Jeff

-- 
For a successful technology, reality must take precedence 
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.

Richard Phillips Feynman, American physicist, 11/5/18-15/2/88
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gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

RE: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai

[Nelson, David J]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hemmann, Volker Armin
> [mailto:volker.armin.hemmann@tu-clausthal.de]
> Sent: 30 March 2007 23:44
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Eez a byootiful dai todai
> 
> 
> 
> one question makes soooo much of a difference. And instead of 
> two passwords, 
> one never entered in X, an attacker only needs to capture 
> your user password, 
> which is typed in douzends of time, to f* up your machine....

With any OS the limiting factor is the intelligence of the user in setting up and securing things. Any experienced windows user knows what can be stopped and stripped out and what needs patched. An experienced windows user will make sure (s)he has adequate firewall and antivirus software.

However, put an idiot in front of a default ubuntu desktop and an idiot in front of a default windows desktop and I reckon the windows one will still be messed up first. There are compromises everywhere in Linux - and a lot of it comes down to ease of use vs power, security and flexibility. Windows is about as flexible as a brick but its easier to use. Gentoo is in my opinion often right at the other end of the spectrum - if you want a totally locked down secure flexible powerful desktop Gentoo can do that but it requires a little effort and a little knowledge. It's this aspect of Linux I love - I'm a tweaker and a fiddler and I like to tweak and fiddle with my desktop :D

tl;dr crew: Ubuntu may not have a perfect security model but it's still better than windows and a great way to get people at least curious about linux.

David "Monday Mornings .... ugh" Nelson

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djn

I do not represent anyone else in emails I send to this list.
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