From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B51CB138350 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:15:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 14575E0B67; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:15:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oi1-x22f.google.com (mail-oi1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B65ECE0B33 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:15:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id r25so1166264oij.4 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 01:15:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=1jQ4ek2DtpUe6/J9dF3JkbPgYET9q2snQSl+T+zfYIY=; b=JlJj5iWmka6bOLb4uGrNJuErys0bO2WzysEEF1X1OmTCHwBz3tsHYKWpD/J9kwttyF dGdQ6JtpQB1fHBB+wSjeUwUFnopr+RWBbNbeICJhCtvuGxCKQveZ3baxgfQFZrqfw8hR /wc4QynYu17SuGOYiXnfwVHEeex6IJ3vF9mnWbBoQvWHJYrEjVeQW75+ncJEheKPrgfZ TrXs2+YM96R/3SWEiwcbIp4rta7vL6zGWyQZT9BJFs277SB0ZiG0ZTLQ6Kkv0B/SpzVK ftor2JRXqRt1kZmdkxYgYcpzAZuwMwxoi2gs6Zlgu4s0RhmPknWxqtxHvvMD7iWqMcE/ j4mw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=1jQ4ek2DtpUe6/J9dF3JkbPgYET9q2snQSl+T+zfYIY=; b=lmdSYpaa8BNjOM6rrQn7/yVUBVrq2ENEe7hyNcC9GN8cEeBDFTtj6UhZgkQqZirMFP YvwAbkmWZzQ3Qc2IzwkTefBstTgh0uGKmzkhtMct40MlTn0LA7A5wuLReUpLEz/S4Hqe cf2L3sat60EUZ0AVffnCMkS/WSjgvY0GdZNVgbFEDLVtL53mYDSWLral0FCaFUOTesWI 4q3zCrfXXmOQ6rgMOUcjFJBd0yRIoLrq5ECpSEoI/TdTQ4pXxDHD+R1YCqZb2T7pAuC8 b6ZNYJHJib9oc6Ply0aJam1vbfmj8N6wdGGWWpf3MfeTYn5reLt2cWhRLiGDlOvAL8jG uoKw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaECsQXgzJ4jPMNNCPx1G45Pt/RoQ3HNU9zgL7t+0a3420M2aFr t62b8QaeJkZ1udqVysZ96BQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLJz9C0qiF5sQ8ROzaECJwCHl4yYdeQEnOO4PTRp5TcHkCE4vhlPDXYwq90BA2iaAb6mAt0xQ== X-Received: by 2002:aca:4285:: with SMTP id p127mr6371325oia.20.1587543319708; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 01:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (adsl-074-188-240-152.sip.asm.bellsouth.net. [74.188.240.152]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q3sm1324826oom.12.2020.04.22.01.15.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 01:15:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead? To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <20200421165803.GB187193@redacted> <20200421183317.GC187193@redacted> <877dy8isdu.fsf@wedjat.horus-it.com> <20200421190035.GE187193@redacted> <8ca01aef-6df7-f4cb-7e37-5459a1009fbd@gmail.com> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFxc7MgBEAC+zrgEdqJJiDe/UDAB+ScmferXWfJTVjbVT2T4DQ7jiLrgP9aNUo1HioNF mrU3JPOCR32gvZyTbY1+niO5+VSo/+pSqQ785h6ZDj1klMkrg6tEzGnf2MNBpBj4houZwxQ+ WDKKTg2M9F+lv8wTIdR/JQn+hSviktLMtrghQlyLhpapsLXWLA6gMFebpQYwxUwemvan8ddX lQvJe9FGyFYvBi0dp1gl10F2O+DVZJxvX8xkX+yImVlhVJiC31gXHRcj+Qlo7gprlU7TIieF Uow6/ZvYKJ26pztVdFCg5w0rMJkF/x8Zd4A6wnuptiAPmWaQ1+YKgYDonbDUgwqFSx5/lN5z DGZ4LlioxeUTTPVvZsqBIeDz6jNFA583OYbo1/S26dqrvTFf2DKlsvoDpVfAhNlwJPjoixs0 X3FNqPv+M10n4kq5Iz7Q9E3O4s/nfFIYGocEslVka7zZPkXSaHbsn+KJlY8XV6qxtCEdh0/V XX1+1aU2J74M0JikWhpwxTZ1dP5aOyWSPPEgFFIRW6xwwC02SoRH9a7mggfGYp/YjPlONNaT SCL8sgRfvmq3D0XTbLyTjSbExxkfKDmbePQagawDE3TlI/oivHf1JaAcbwMb3LZuU4TGcOIl 5D+x7q0MUIeCop0ZFOwAnqW3AVVNvsBkv2KN+IHJryWAf0/iMQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgWIQTZ7suruPBaS60bCYXvEM/XWu+ZnAUCXFzs yAIbIwULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDvEM/XWu+ZnN+7D/4/1dNG4aCz0+v+ 0dcjV5tY1feYEWCdHKyDzxWBxlCpd/0NPRQeNY4VMjbCl/sq7GkXi/c2SbfWDQ5BQRkkExG1 pSwuXSIehGok/4fpTi3HDAguRvzdCqlKPt7me05FyiC/WnpY5GOlJ3ruGw2qABv/RmV2q5b/ tkq7h1y1f16DTNr3/nsj8HzHcrHdXdL4kaYChSOe/dbQR9Stqak7eMyR+iwvrJMNF/CGl70P 2x5ybsXMDzRVOqNcpa5ZdhEMTVh6+vC1SOmm1BFMF8XCqBEvBbcHWDQmGYTdNCsS/ADm8CBl gvjJgLdIsAzoMu4WHQDFnzXAoArqFWgAf53isOS4AWrv29tF9b8Aa1vb7h5JEa+ArcMsA6Gl X38+GY6WXXaxKI9n3PTCWu9tPGnRh7mABjnwEosDDqmzw8aTAYECb3avDuGY2rmcjgh4H6RE w08d63j1T4d5J9wlm4TGtW/VHgbUFkATEdH3Acl/EjFiyqTiX7p8kU6Reu5enIkogA93xoQh Rmy7ZiST/5LN+ZkaOdyjIw0L+5KalslN9SKt809YxgJ6kPo657LNTFPiFvFA46/SEWcBYrzq Xk0wEW0gBRWf+BqN0qRhU0/EQ+QfRdLLFg2xtUePwlheYLXxfyDLrdCCOLWYpkzbjCZHLS4u 69smbvR9S9KBDNzJybxEWrkCDQRcXOzIARAA5IGRWTqaM44IJgBYghZg2fGj0Am7KWPhE7V7 T/EEe7vVSUEFqHtlHzI4ZK6Q0AZ9uAEjE8IJIQ7KoTjzNqAtabP0vp3s0szgtJlsZ+8vGKlQ my7fvzSrdoQL0Xn7CEwJYFXJ1EMUcYIQeoHG1cUAaXx73k9BFbjwjnUeMrqlV/ZovQlg7duW nESfQ7HZu5NrtYyY3jPMUouxiO9WQPh+IHxZbt1absF2VcvRAymD32RxGvMPbw6ChMRD/p9O 4PH7M5rXaxr78NXQX9E48vrI00f1cYb9NSN1HnSV8cW3jKObVjdBk6jPQwrMvdpgdQhUB9aZ HS/9mC9mmAgiXKyCpzXe7FPB6QznSfn4GIaC/luy1e6SLUkJhRK/niB+gq+Mfxg2zXNuDUTI cMGmpDCp3kgUoorkaltk8RW09io95BkXrGhcDNuSGZfAParBc7RXyYpbIcax8St7tEAd2oFh 4seYOPUlzuhGrPpqR/91wrFc4E1260GKauSr4UhMJv6tygBwyC0mmBMKi+ZXw6ZdZxA5fg7y 35P3TILjznCXXTDgRHq9A3NknKRMcgFacX6eIhANkMFo6oJVjuEgy1dvu1wFfDq7c+i8GAHu L4pYzyXYu6PporlNNU0xSwdVgzM/uuK0lt+UxCimgC+YR3IezgDcbfudb7h9dGIwL+bbPL0A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIBYhBNnuy6u48FpLrRsJhe8Qz9da75mcBQJcXOzIAhsMAAoJEO8Qz9da 75mcXZ4P/1YXgWDZek7mhzrf6uaQzMxa92P89HeWz4PlgB/32symeEFAV04WazzBZffI8AYY rGA1Xmu/2VaB9+FOODyKhUWBc2UL0NRWBk6POwboyTdKlclmpixaN9zLcBt0YLejoRfN1B/5 aQf9/lUDZMnAiCyz0FgeqEMUshldmwWC35RqnjrCbbuk2vIqSH6BLDIXU6jQrLHE1DF0ai41 wLtQFAFXPhn45n0ZwYhVs4Z32z4sjXrIvgBgCaXa4HM+L1Klne0KiNM8ReFTTpTE0SgyDOSZ O3MOa2n77i6JbVtsbiFYnNeP3J9S/l3jevGpZEtNQOKrIm1MW8jGuHWtsDeMkT/mCcSodlkt PxIo+mMK9GpGvG2hW80LiohqNfUbNwAmr3blOYY4URPXPRnEnPs4pmTmL5owjw2dkg145i9I D42Tq+XZ6YtWt3SGzGbAYow6XwTwZ5NFAzV9UQuCGrDw4KWan6O6Z+VIYWsn0UMZlu1Obxna aocofkaUCbISK26kImuD1aA8juSHC18Qv1xUage6/UakbSxyDtACqt6hOVFKX3IA59ApdNRT +2x3iCmlvF9MJsGgFq6IpqL+Fk7iWV8Kjbz0wQOId6N9+JdQh3LrLaS7a1PowUm1z9DK5/O0 Yg+gpDnEOOFI7WM5u7a7FSM2Z/LXGVwel/0eWvLk9tN6 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 03:15:18 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1397A80564F0377F06E14955" X-Archives-Salt: 20f57563-dfba-4e34-9179-68fdc4fd501a X-Archives-Hash: 31604af33c10a0b11b605c0bd85b4bf0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1397A80564F0377F06E14955 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Covici wrote: > > I am seeing a lot more unmaintained packages -- at least in the ones I > have -- than there used to be and bugs going unanswered probably > because of that. Not sure what to do about it, I don't have time to > get into doing this much, just keeping up with world updates is quite > time consuming all by itself. > That may be but the packages that are most used are likely maintained and well maintained at that.  There are some old packages that haven't been updated in years, upstream is dead or no one uses them much anymore that are slowly being removed.  If one can't install them, no real point in them being in the tree.  I might add, the switch from the much older pythons are really forcing a house cleaning.  But, some packages are just out of date and something new has taken their place.  Nothing new there.  I'm sure this happens with every distro out there, even the paid ones. I follow -dev and have recently had to uninstall a package and install something else that is newer and more up to date.  I saw a message about that old package that seemed to stop working for me a good while ago.  What I had still lurking about would sometimes crash and I didn't trust it.  I used to use that as a GUI to manage LVM.  I use LVM a lot here.  In that message was them removing the old package and recommending a replacement I never heard of.  I installed it and it may actually be better than the old software I used to use.  While the old package may be gone, the new one seems to be more up to date, stable and appears to have a better design.  Different for sure, I'll have to learn how the GUI does its thing but could be better in the end. Since LVM has been updated a good bit in the past year or so, that old software either needed a lot of work or just use the newer software. There are a lot of packages that are just not used by enough people to maintain them anymore.  Some are being replaced with more up to date packages.  There are lots of reasons for that.  If a package you use is being removed, search -dev and look to see if there is a replacement mentioned in the last rites message.  If it was removed, they almost always include a replacement if there is one.  Sometimes another package absorbs what the old package used to do. While at times -dev can get quite busy, I'd be lost without it.  Things are mentioned there about upcoming changes that I don't see mentioned anywhere else.  That includes this list as well.  It's a great way to keep somewhat up to date on what's going on.  One doesn't have to read every post either.  After a while, you can tell by the subject line if that thread will be anything you would be interested in.  Last rites, things about upgrades and such get my attention.  I generally know when something big is going to happen weeks or even months before it hits the tree. If you want to share what packages you are missing out on, I'd be glad to search my -dev archives and see if I can find something that may help.  Dale :-)  :-) --------------1397A80564F0377F06E14955 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
John Covici wrote:

I am seeing a lot more unmaintained packages -- at least in the ones I
have -- than there used to be and bugs going unanswered probably
because of that.  Not sure what to do about it, I don't have time to
get into doing this much, just keeping up with world updates is quite
time consuming all by itself.


That may be but the packages that are most used are likely maintained and well maintained at that.  There are some old packages that haven't been updated in years, upstream is dead or no one uses them much anymore that are slowly being removed.  If one can't install them, no real point in them being in the tree.  I might add, the switch from the much older pythons are really forcing a house cleaning.  But, some packages are just out of date and something new has taken their place.  Nothing new there.  I'm sure this happens with every distro out there, even the paid ones.

I follow -dev and have recently had to uninstall a package and install something else that is newer and more up to date.  I saw a message about that old package that seemed to stop working for me a good while ago.  What I had still lurking about would sometimes crash and I didn't trust it.  I used to use that as a GUI to manage LVM.  I use LVM a lot here.  In that message was them removing the old package and recommending a replacement I never heard of.  I installed it and it may actually be better than the old software I used to use.  While the old package may be gone, the new one seems to be more up to date, stable and appears to have a better design.  Different for sure, I'll have to learn how the GUI does its thing but could be better in the end. Since LVM has been updated a good bit in the past year or so, that old software either needed a lot of work or just use the newer software.

There are a lot of packages that are just not used by enough people to maintain them anymore.  Some are being replaced with more up to date packages.  There are lots of reasons for that.  If a package you use is being removed, search -dev and look to see if there is a replacement mentioned in the last rites message.  If it was removed, they almost always include a replacement if there is one.  Sometimes another package absorbs what the old package used to do. While at times -dev can get quite busy, I'd be lost without it.  Things are mentioned there about upcoming changes that I don't see mentioned anywhere else.  That includes this list as well.  It's a great way to keep somewhat up to date on what's going on.  One doesn't have to read every post either.  After a while, you can tell by the subject line if that thread will be anything you would be interested in.  Last rites, things about upgrades and such get my attention.  I generally know when something big is going to happen weeks or even months before it hits the tree.

If you want to share what packages you are missing out on, I'd be glad to search my -dev archives and see if I can find something that may help. 

Dale

:-)  :-)
--------------1397A80564F0377F06E14955--