On 28/1/25 01:16, Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2025 at 9:37 AM Matthew Brooks 
> <matthewfbrooks@posteonet <mailto:matthewfbrooks@posteo.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Hello!
> >
>
> Hi.
>
> First, I cannot offer any insight into the PEP668 stuff. For me, it is 
> what it is.
>
> > For clarity, I'm *not* looking for a workaround for my particular 
> system. My end goal (and not an easy one, granted) is to hopefully 
> eventually make a proper fix that makes it so no user of any distro 
> ever needs to touch a venv again if they don't want to.
> >
> > I'm only a hobbyist programmer, but since nearly every distro under 
> the sun went with the "externally managed environment" thing, it's 
> clearly more an issue of motivation/time rather than raw skill. So I 
> figure maybe my extreme distaste for the current solution might allow 
> me to bash my head against the problem long enough to make some headway.
>
> Like you I am a hobbyist programmer and, in a _very_ general way agree 
> with your setup of "so no user of any distro ever needs to touch a 
> venv again if they don't want to". However my experience programming 
> Python always leads me towards the use of off-brand and sometimes 
> poorly maintained Python libraries that don't work in all python 
> releases so I'm forced to use venv, which for me works great. I also 
> use a lot of CUDA stuff within Python and tend, possibly due to my own 
> lack of skills as a hobbyist, or just my general paranoia about having 
> to debug things I don't want to mess with, to do _everything_ personal 
> in a venv. Grant you, I never intend to release a program to the 
> public so to me it's most important to keep it working, and clearly 
> nothing about what you might end up suggesting stops me from doing 
> what you are interested in.
>
> I wish you the best in your adventure.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
Same here, I regard current python and python based programs a mostly 
broken despite the considerable effort of the gentoo devs ... if you 
want privacy, do not want to use someone elses docker containers or just 
use portage installed programs.  Example Frigate, example Homeassistant. 
example python itself ... venv's and all these walled gardens that are 
not talking to each other ...

I am developing quite an aversion to python.

BillK