From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 496701382C5 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:07:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B0A56E093E; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:06:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [212.227.15.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 022EFE0908 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:06:55 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1607893603; bh=+LPuse66ZDWCooIipHHNGRbCrhC8Fl4P7uUam/+u/zg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=RgY8xurnMjWpVL68TBKP0uI4l3B0ei+JbgyRx/H1JpnxaUcUgwUGC8Dx6N49g/doc 3Xh4IyWj9pCsxZ8DHTzHZ/XqSm754YlXlDhBXky+MK2ackTEb9yrgcUaCrKSY/+ob0 IMZcgZRI4X2ES5v0RvsxRwBYl/nTxqsVcVs5aDTI= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from [192.168.178.96] ([95.118.141.238]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb002 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Lzaxm-1k1agS3qc6-014nqz for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 22:06:43 +0100 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] update fails, but I don't see why To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <650a1d1d-e2a6-6a55-b07b-af65a877d44e@web.de> <20201212223503.6d46ad41@digimed.co.uk> <32af647f-a0e1-77e7-ff0f-4a5495e45f6b@web.de> <20201213081731.16f5dc53@digimed.co.uk> <3c2d9eae-d102-d695-a512-09cbfea13b4a@gmail.com> From: n952162 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 22:02:44 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3c2d9eae-d102-d695-a512-09cbfea13b4a@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:jo2wiZgBaowRK4gubeOBtOhHmP6Gza4hVhUpwVBr15/+QJAAuJd f69KACeho0NvZaEQvOGVfabk1qFcOrcrYWP1hDPefyvgWuav35BWh17Qcj99/Vg3y08uGFu DqRCD1uzMSt6cMNJvW4DmrEfIIPRM844eugBF/XrnaJheF0DdzYuId74Tnhue/TnrWxx++p p0KSyyqdbj28ifGNSKkYA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:TJLnH78JN2U=:d4BY1rfZ+8HntvrVhfDNWE mIZEC0rjShufTmQBDjtPRERGSyvTOt6YBLTE+fWiU3KE4WGNrhuU+3708cVvV7ocNWUEoowbU 5kpZzD0HIhIaB0xWNbORkwOfXBzdZAZHL61IWlgCO1lb6K/ByIK/JUTxJ1TtiUEi/iKgk3isM gh5ClI5KN0BHV476GlghWikDYvnWX0CeI22VKbTumJyNQF2IojS0ZY9AU2HT9gw19scaax3ma unfMYjjk4w68VdHiCEPqZfCn+dztrudFhe2ScXDXhnJwYoAlTj6EwVHWpd5V32QFp9fzYfS8x bFRPaHPtdXQ7m4i3xwz+x578Ub760RJiIOuYcu+ePGpn6tTqpdbjQaO1jE4lY08RdrdyJazb+ wVMtqu93A5TcrCjL2wHsh3YCYAs00pGa1GzbwJpJOIzXzCQdxiGnxTrN6k5gpNZoE6rzEOqtT XNZrV70VOlM1xzM/bm2+uQ9Nxgpw2G2VPzLgFBT64DDMq6HIM9+YrYhYQkMz3/frsf6ZHrOyr WWQ7HGLxlsulS1Z0gTqVhLUead4+uq+6+X/gZ1Izkfl8CHFx61CWsvNa13g1l7IetM/XAGbdL +Pz/2g79kuhZc/eoHPCpT3OEjT0iOO7O1b3aZaoYYsqwN/NfBR+XZPqdNoReNsAQfwbPkCnuB kxfb5hm46xg14KS23t9V9/6kK6JM5rhEiEjPY1T/HETwL15lTj2yOfGNc2he/m/PIzOPNpKp7 jvyQEtdoThwRsOKOv2kpL7ihFy3+qgSXJbCD5uRRo3acVMCpj9D03WHQhDB/ooDggwEuCa3J0 395IHgjtrDrdIoyEIZA+mMp8zpu0g4xidiouwdedhE98JocmuYCaQD00XoaptMz9cy2oEOHgb TFoSLc1R310A53Awea9Q== X-Archives-Salt: 2d3f1f1b-4152-4109-b247-7869d0b1b323 X-Archives-Hash: dfd5cb3676bd9ea91c35e47602214f74 On 12/13/20 9:06 PM, Dale wrote: > Mark Knecht wrote: >> >> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 12:03 PM n952162 > > wrote: >>> On 12/13/20 9:18 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: >>>> Nearly 2 months, quite a long time in Gentoo update terms. >>>> >>>> >>> Okay, is the solution then to re-install? >>> >> Personally I wouldn't start with a reinstall. >> >> I'd start with my world file and remove/comment out every >> 'application' not required to keep the machine running/booting. That >> should be nearly everything other than things like grub, your kernels, >> hardware drivers, terminals, etc. >> >> NOTE: Just because you comment something out in the world file doesn't >> mean it won't run, it just won't get updated or be part of portage's >> considerations about what to do. >> >> At that point emerge=C2=A0@world should only be considering, from a bui= ld >> POV, the stuff you really need. >> >> This python problem everyone is having I cannot help with. Solving >> problems like that is why people run Gentoo. With lots of power comes >> lots of responsibility. However with all the applications >> 'unconsidered' you have a chance of getting the really important stuff >> built and booting. >> >> If I got that far then I'd start adding apps back in/uncommenting one >> or two at a time and see if I could make headway. >> >> I've updated machines that were a year out of date but it took days >> and days. If I didn't want to build code every week I decided I >> couldn't run Gentoo. >> >> HTH, >> Mark > > I agree.=C2=A0 I update once a week.=C2=A0 It seems a pretty good balanc= e between > not having to do it to often and not having such drastic changes that it > makes things hard to work through. > > That said, when the tree is in the process of huge changes, it can > create problems even with weekly updates.=C2=A0 Right now, it is python = and > the speed it is moving at.=C2=A0 Some versions that have been around for > ages, 2.7, is being removed.=C2=A0 Then python 3.6 is leaving etc etc et= c. > Those of us that have been around long enough have seen this with other > packages as well.=C2=A0 Some packages are just hard to upgrade to begin = with > and some create circular problems. The longer it goes between updates, > the larger that problem gets to be.=C2=A0 You get two different packages > doing that, you can find yourself running around in circles trying to > get emerge to chew what it can. > > While I usually do updates on Sunday evening, I'm considering doing > twice a week, Sunday and Wednesday.=C2=A0 At least until python settles = down > a bit. Thing is, I think the worst part may be about over.=C2=A0 I think= 2.7 > is gone here, I think 3.6 is too.=C2=A0 That's two down.=C2=A0 It seems = 3.7 and > above will be around a while but if they start going away soon, I may do > two updates a week if it starts making updates harder. > > Time can be a problem but sometimes it just depends on what packages > have changed and how fast they have changed.=C2=A0 For some systems that > haven't been updated in a while, having to remove python 2.7 and 3.6 in > one go, can cause problems that are hard to get around.=C2=A0 Right now = just > isn't a good time to let updates get to far apart. > > The only thing that makes some of this survivable, getting help on this > mailing list.=C2=A0 Some people can decode the output of emerge and find= a > way to work through it. Some are fairly easy, some not so much. > Sometimes removing/commenting out things in the world file will help. > Sometimes doing @system first helps. Sometimes you just have to update > certain packages in small chunks to get through a upgrade.=C2=A0 Finding= that > right option sometimes requires help. > > Just some thoughts. > > Dale > > :-)=C2=A0 :-) > > > My problem is I can't find a diagnostic methodology.=C2=A0 The one I most often hear is, update more often, or trail and error solutions. Does all that information in emerge's output point the way to the problem, and I just have to learn to understand it,=C2=A0 or am I just wasting my time there?=C2=A0 Are there better tools than log parsing? I kn= ow, there are lots of good tools,=C2=A0 but there needs to be methodology for using them (like understanding gentoo ;-) )