From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8363C1395E2 for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 21:09:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BC27E0B12; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 21:09:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wj0-f194.google.com (mail-wj0-f194.google.com [209.85.210.194]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3BA0E0AA9 for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 21:09:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wj0-f194.google.com with SMTP id kp2so1052941wjc.0 for ; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 13:09:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qI5d7f3SnkEFg7uwTvWwH/mD35jefFbH5wX/KC1mLks=; b=HYaf4f1R00Yk2no1sn2KknxM455bVbv8+CgdhbjzKEFton3IqHHaHuZfj/HDic1adL wD8Kv8ge/F4BfZYFpp/LL0thjZ9puM0kpRG59MYr8XBj+LK5hsdoVmjExGSi8SAutPai 49QjZGiFQSYpUqncsxypYDFl8l64ltXPz223efM/QzxJLlL+adS/VnDbwJTK4JuzLfOe adnVWGoMOWtdIhMJeOhqdw5yBBLVlJdzk/ZEcjigKQzzA8jWQNkeFvw+Od/YvJxeENfC 0q1dnHH3f3ZlJrvjJyf4ZecBvZsV90If14oB/+Z36tiNpSJbkGrKLvcKVkl8YTfShvth AopQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qI5d7f3SnkEFg7uwTvWwH/mD35jefFbH5wX/KC1mLks=; b=Z46VupT/+rqqDqLxJGVS/XkugDRzWc9QvumnwpUKYGXCXnO8g6x6rdWSUANXpSBL5E SQKYycEmJdbvrv2Z7aFl4T01v4/E3MZTS9meE3Prgwk+SYCHgf+U0oWOTZPRJfb3jJWp nIjABC9twGOpvqZdXTu5f99ghqnr7nldUHiFgbsoaw8cL5fXid40cIB7NQYpNmRDXkXf snZi8gmQfwMu6MACA82x4/Vfi/AmUDvzd7WIh95RXFlaNdwZLABob9eYiWWfOdClwXu5 3JRSjo2iVItWl8gWZyveOs2/SSM/0MHiaL0ml3tvSPt7uqFKFeyHA18ZSw/7Wxt4G/iy tTxw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02kdNUJWL4KtkORvjr9rSBVHxAxTjpCTTfPPjM//cRXScxIudqHsxCtPkF8IOvRlw== X-Received: by 10.194.90.231 with SMTP id bz7mr3827327wjb.35.1479589761455; Sat, 19 Nov 2016 13:09:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.0.40] ([196.212.62.210]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id i15sm16034773wjs.16.2016.11.19.13.09.20 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 19 Nov 2016 13:09:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: sans-dbus was: gnome intrusion? To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <20161114213743.55a5e76a@jupiter.sol.kaishome.de> <20161116124726.GA8424@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161117074400.7908.242EA9B5@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> <20161119102149.0c62c7ad@jupiter.sol.kaishome.de> <20161119190405.8295.2CF92EED@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> <20161119204409.11828.251A07F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> From: Alan McKinnon Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2016 23:07:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20161119204409.11828.251A07F0@matica.foolinux.mooo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 80df5e2a-dd89-4e08-8b92-e7b30540e267 X-Archives-Hash: 95211d351bbc63bc81000858bc7e8642 On 19/11/2016 22:47, Ian Zimmerman wrote: > On 2016-11-19 14:16, Rich Freeman wrote: > >> Presumably if you sent a dbus message to your service manager asking >> it to start a daemon that doesn't count as being behind your back. > > I did not - some program which I never heard of but is part of the DE du > jour did, without any explicit configuration to do so. Typically when > loading some library which I never heard of, also part of said DE, for > the first time. > > I hope you agree this is very different from daemons started by init > (whatever flavor). > I do not agree. The big two DE's start dbus because the developers write code that needs it. There is no explicit config to start it in the form of "dbus=yes" in kde.conf because it is required. init starts a whole bunch of stuff. It's all terribly mysterious until you read the relevant docs, at which point it ceases to be so mysterious and becomes knowledge. Same with everything KDE, Gnome et al do that you are complaining about. It's only worth complaining about being mysterious because you have not yet studied them and understand them. Yes I know init and KDE are very very different beasts from different eras with different approaches to getting stuff done and so can appear completely different. But within the contact of /this/ thread, they are very similar. And you don't understand one of them to anything like the same standard you understand the other. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com