[gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Dale]

Howdy,

I downloaded some files.  I have a few that have some weird names.  Some
have those picture type characters.  Some start with a dash, "-".  In
some cases I can use wild cards to change them.  Frank gave me some
ideas on that off list, while discussing his nifty checksum tool. 
Anyway, I ran up on a few that start with a dash, "-", and I can't find
a way around that.  The mv command thinks it is me trying to include a
option.  It spits out something like this. 


mv: unrecognized option '---ne.avi'


Some of the other characters I run into look like this. 


����


Those I can usually get around with wildcards.  I have not found a way
to get around the ones with the dash in front tho.  I tried a single
quote, double quote etc but still no worky.  Also, tab completion
doesn't help either. 

One reason I want to change these, it makes Frank's script puke on my
keyboard.  It reacts the same way with Franks script as it does when I
try to use cp or mv.  Why someone would name files that way is beyond me. 

What is the trick to rename these files?  I've tried mv, Dolphin,
Krusader and such.  There has to be a way but I can't figure out what it
is.  Heck, I'm not even sure what to search for to find out how to do
this. 

Thanks. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Michael]

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On Tuesday 29 October 2024 15:18:40 GMT Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I downloaded some files.  I have a few that have some weird names.  Some
> have those picture type characters.  Some start with a dash, "-".  In
> some cases I can use wild cards to change them.  Frank gave me some
> ideas on that off list, while discussing his nifty checksum tool. 
> Anyway, I ran up on a few that start with a dash, "-", and I can't find
> a way around that.  The mv command thinks it is me trying to include a
> option.  It spits out something like this. 
> 
> 
> mv: unrecognized option '---ne.avi'
> 
> 
> Some of the other characters I run into look like this. 
> 
> 
> ����
> 
> 
> Those I can usually get around with wildcards.  I have not found a way
> to get around the ones with the dash in front tho.  I tried a single
> quote, double quote etc but still no worky.  Also, tab completion
> doesn't help either. 
> 
> One reason I want to change these, it makes Frank's script puke on my
> keyboard.  It reacts the same way with Franks script as it does when I
> try to use cp or mv.  Why someone would name files that way is beyond me. 
> 
> What is the trick to rename these files?  I've tried mv, Dolphin,
> Krusader and such.  There has to be a way but I can't figure out what it
> is.  Heck, I'm not even sure what to search for to find out how to do
> this. 
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 

In a terminal running bash you can try:

mv ./-ne.avi newname.avi

or use a double dash to indicate end of options for the preceding command:

mv -- -ne.avi newname.avi

For a GUI-fied application, you can use 'kde-misc/krename'.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Dale]

Michael wrote:
> On Tuesday 29 October 2024 15:18:40 GMT Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I downloaded some files.  I have a few that have some weird names.  Some
>> have those picture type characters.  Some start with a dash, "-".  In
>> some cases I can use wild cards to change them.  Frank gave me some
>> ideas on that off list, while discussing his nifty checksum tool. 
>> Anyway, I ran up on a few that start with a dash, "-", and I can't find
>> a way around that.  The mv command thinks it is me trying to include a
>> option.  It spits out something like this. 
>>
>>
>> mv: unrecognized option '---ne.avi'
>>
>>
>> Some of the other characters I run into look like this. 
>>
>>
>> ����
>>
>>
>> Those I can usually get around with wildcards.  I have not found a way
>> to get around the ones with the dash in front tho.  I tried a single
>> quote, double quote etc but still no worky.  Also, tab completion
>> doesn't help either. 
>>
>> One reason I want to change these, it makes Frank's script puke on my
>> keyboard.  It reacts the same way with Franks script as it does when I
>> try to use cp or mv.  Why someone would name files that way is beyond me. 
>>
>> What is the trick to rename these files?  I've tried mv, Dolphin,
>> Krusader and such.  There has to be a way but I can't figure out what it
>> is.  Heck, I'm not even sure what to search for to find out how to do
>> this. 
>>
>> Thanks. 
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> In a terminal running bash you can try:
>
> mv ./-ne.avi newname.avi
>
> or use a double dash to indicate end of options for the preceding command:
>
> mv -- -ne.avi newname.avi
>
> For a GUI-fied application, you can use 'kde-misc/krename'.


Now that is awesome.  The first one works great.  Haven't had the need
to try others yet but figure they would work too.  Finally, I can rename
these files with weird characters.  I never knew a -- meant end of
options before.  Been using Linux for a couple decades and never saw
that info. 

Krename is a tool I use a LOT.  Kinda overkill for this.  It seems
whoever decided to use those characters in file names tends to only put
one or two in a directory.  Usually when I use Krename, I am processing
a lot of files.  Sometimes I'll process 200 files or more.  Awesome tool
tho.  I just use it when it is faster than renaming manually. 

Thanks much. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  Anyone storing files long term, you should really consider using
Franks script.  It is a really neat tool. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Michael]

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On Tuesday 29 October 2024 16:18:21 GMT Dale wrote:
> Michael wrote:

> > In a terminal running bash you can try:
> > 
> > mv ./-ne.avi newname.avi
> > 
> > or use a double dash to indicate end of options for the preceding command:
> > 
> > mv -- -ne.avi newname.avi
> > 
> > For a GUI-fied application, you can use 'kde-misc/krename'.
> 
> Now that is awesome.  The first one works great.  Haven't had the need
> to try others yet but figure they would work too.  Finally, I can rename
> these files with weird characters.  I never knew a -- meant end of
> options before.  Been using Linux for a couple decades and never saw
> that info. 

I've seen it in the man pages of revdep-rebuild, perl-cleaner, et al. and have 
been using it for a long time.  For example with revdep-rebuild I use it to 
pass additional options to the emerge command, which is called from within 
revdep-rebuild:

revdep-rebuild -v -- -a

This gives me a list and waits for my acknowledgement before it starts re-
emerging any packages. 


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Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Dale]

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Michael wrote:
> On Tuesday 29 October 2024 16:18:21 GMT Dale wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>> In a terminal running bash you can try:
>>>
>>> mv ./-ne.avi newname.avi
>>>
>>> or use a double dash to indicate end of options for the preceding command:
>>>
>>> mv -- -ne.avi newname.avi
>>>
>>> For a GUI-fied application, you can use 'kde-misc/krename'.
>> Now that is awesome.  The first one works great.  Haven't had the need
>> to try others yet but figure they would work too.  Finally, I can rename
>> these files with weird characters.  I never knew a -- meant end of
>> options before.  Been using Linux for a couple decades and never saw
>> that info. 
> I've seen it in the man pages of revdep-rebuild, perl-cleaner, et al. and have 
> been using it for a long time.  For example with revdep-rebuild I use it to 
> pass additional options to the emerge command, which is called from within 
> revdep-rebuild:
>
> revdep-rebuild -v -- -a
>
> This gives me a list and waits for my acknowledgement before it starts re-
> emerging any packages. 
>


I saw that but never understood what it did.  I thought it was something
that worked just with revdep-rebuild or something.  So it is a bash
thing.  Interesting.  That could open a can of worms. 

By the way, for giggles, I had a directory with several files with those
weird characters so I tried Krename.  I highlighted the files, opened
with Krename, no files detected.  For some reason, likely the same as
Frank's checksum tool, it can't process those files with weird
characters.  Could be a bug or just no way around it.  I'm not sure
Frank has found a workaround for his script yet either. 

I did add your command line methods to my cheat sheet tho.  Now if only
I can remember what I added them as so I can find it later.  o_O 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

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Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Eli Schwartz]

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On 10/29/24 2:05 PM, Dale wrote:
> I saw that but never understood what it did.  I thought it was
> something that worked just with revdep-rebuild or something.  So it
> is a bash thing.  Interesting.  That could open a can of worms.

It's not a bash thing. It is a software thing. It is mandated by the
POSIX standard:

https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap12.html

That means, as a general rule of thumb, all Unix commands required to
exist everywhere, *have to* support the usage of "--" in this manner.
And since it is a sensible thing to do, most programs, even not POSIX
programs, heed the wise advice of POSIX and support "--".


On 10/29/24 11:18 AM, Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I downloaded some files.  I have a few that have some weird names.
> Some have those picture type characters.  Some start with a dash,
> "-".  In some cases I can use wild cards to change them.  Frank gave
> me some ideas on that off list, while discussing his nifty checksum
> tool. Anyway, I ran up on a few that start with a dash, "-", and I
> can't find a way around that.  The mv command thinks it is me trying
> to include a option.  It spits out something like this.
> 
> 
> mv: unrecognized option '---ne.avi'
> 
> 
> Some of the other characters I run into look like this.
> 
> 
> ����
> 
> 
> Those I can usually get around with wildcards.  I have not found a
> way to get around the ones with the dash in front tho.  I tried a
> single quote, double quote etc but still no worky.  Also, tab
> completion doesn't help either.


I feel like, in combination with the bash comment above, this speaks to
a general misunderstanding of how quotes, dashes, wildcards, etc work.


So I would like to clarify something here. If you try to

$ mv ---ne.avi new-filename.avi

and it doesn't work, and you try

$ mv "---ne.avi" new-filename.avi


Or more generally, if you have a filename named

this is a weird filename.avi


You have various options for writing a "mv" command for it in a bash
shell, but that's not actually what the "mv" program sees.

Example:


$ mv "this is a weird filename.avi" better.avi

is actually executed as an operating system array:

{"mv", "this is a weird filename.avi", "better.avi"}


You can also do:

$ mv this\ is\ a\ weird\ filename.avi better.avi

Still, bash tries to figure out how to convert it into an operating
system array, and gets:

{"mv", "this is a weird filename.avi", "better.avi"}

You can even do:

$ mv *weird*filename.avi" better.avi

Still, bash tries to figure out how to convert it into an operating
system array, and gets:

{"mv", "this is a weird filename.avi", "better.avi"}

It's always converted to that array. But,

$ mv this is a weird filename.avi better.avi

becomes this array:

{"mv", "this", "is", "a", "weird", "filename.avi", "better.avi"}

and obviously that is an entirely different command because the array is
different (each part is a different filename, as far as "mv" knows.)


Same with stuff that begins with a dash.

$ mv "---ne.avi" new-filename.avi
$ mv '---ne.avi' new-filename.avi
$ mv ---ne.avi new-filename.avi
$ mv *-ne.avi new-filename.avi
$ mv \-\-\-ne.avi new-filename.avi


all become

{"mv", "---ne.avi", "new-filename.avi"}


Which does not help you because the array values that the "mv" command
sees are still starting with a single dash.


From bash (and from bash tab completion) all you can do is update bash
text lines which then get translated into arrays so you can execute the
array as a program. Quoting and wildcards do NOT affect how "mv" works.
All that quoting and wildcards do is affect whether space characters are
interpreted as part of the filename or as the separator between
different array items.

The "mv" program is responsible for knowing what a dash is or does. It
tries first to treat it as an option, and that's why "--" works --
because it tells "mv" itself to stop treating it as an option, and to
treat it as a filename instead.

That is also why "./---new.avi" works. All filenames (except those
starting with / such as /home or /usr, of course) can have an added
directory at the beginning, and the obvious one is ./ but you could also
use "$PWD/---new.avi" if you wanted. Since it doesn't start with a dash,
it can't be an option.



-- 
Eli Schwartz

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Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Dale]

Eli Schwartz wrote:
> On 10/29/24 2:05 PM, Dale wrote:
>> I saw that but never understood what it did.  I thought it was
>> something that worked just with revdep-rebuild or something.  So it
>> is a bash thing.  Interesting.  That could open a can of worms.
> It's not a bash thing. It is a software thing. It is mandated by the
> POSIX standard:
>
> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap12.html
>
> That means, as a general rule of thumb, all Unix commands required to
> exist everywhere, *have to* support the usage of "--" in this manner.
> And since it is a sensible thing to do, most programs, even not POSIX
> programs, heed the wise advice of POSIX and support "--".
>

Oh, that's good.  I think.  :/ 

That link has a lot of info.  That could take a while to digest.  I did
find the -- part tho. 


> On 10/29/24 11:18 AM, Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I downloaded some files.  I have a few that have some weird names.
>> Some have those picture type characters.  Some start with a dash,
>> "-".  In some cases I can use wild cards to change them.  Frank gave
>> me some ideas on that off list, while discussing his nifty checksum
>> tool. Anyway, I ran up on a few that start with a dash, "-", and I
>> can't find a way around that.  The mv command thinks it is me trying
>> to include a option.  It spits out something like this.
>>
>>
>> mv: unrecognized option '---ne.avi'
>>
>>
>> Some of the other characters I run into look like this.
>>
>>
>> ����
>>
>>
>> Those I can usually get around with wildcards.  I have not found a
>> way to get around the ones with the dash in front tho.  I tried a
>> single quote, double quote etc but still no worky.  Also, tab
>> completion doesn't help either.
>
> I feel like, in combination with the bash comment above, this speaks to
> a general misunderstanding of how quotes, dashes, wildcards, etc work.
>
>
> So I would like to clarify something here. If you try to
>
> $ mv ---ne.avi new-filename.avi
>
> and it doesn't work, and you try
>
> $ mv "---ne.avi" new-filename.avi
>
>
> Or more generally, if you have a filename named
>
> this is a weird filename.avi
>
>
> You have various options for writing a "mv" command for it in a bash
> shell, but that's not actually what the "mv" program sees.
>
> Example:
>
>
> $ mv "this is a weird filename.avi" better.avi
>
> is actually executed as an operating system array:
>
> {"mv", "this is a weird filename.avi", "better.avi"}
>
>
> You can also do:
>
> $ mv this\ is\ a\ weird\ filename.avi better.avi
>
> Still, bash tries to figure out how to convert it into an operating
> system array, and gets:
>
> {"mv", "this is a weird filename.avi", "better.avi"}
>
> You can even do:
>
> $ mv *weird*filename.avi" better.avi
>
> Still, bash tries to figure out how to convert it into an operating
> system array, and gets:
>
> {"mv", "this is a weird filename.avi", "better.avi"}
>
> It's always converted to that array. But,
>
> $ mv this is a weird filename.avi better.avi
>
> becomes this array:
>
> {"mv", "this", "is", "a", "weird", "filename.avi", "better.avi"}
>
> and obviously that is an entirely different command because the array is
> different (each part is a different filename, as far as "mv" knows.)
>
>
> Same with stuff that begins with a dash.
>
> $ mv "---ne.avi" new-filename.avi
> $ mv '---ne.avi' new-filename.avi
> $ mv ---ne.avi new-filename.avi
> $ mv *-ne.avi new-filename.avi
> $ mv \-\-\-ne.avi new-filename.avi
>
>
> all become
>
> {"mv", "---ne.avi", "new-filename.avi"}
>
>
> Which does not help you because the array values that the "mv" command
> sees are still starting with a single dash.
>
>
> From bash (and from bash tab completion) all you can do is update bash
> text lines which then get translated into arrays so you can execute the
> array as a program. Quoting and wildcards do NOT affect how "mv" works.
> All that quoting and wildcards do is affect whether space characters are
> interpreted as part of the filename or as the separator between
> different array items.
>
> The "mv" program is responsible for knowing what a dash is or does. It
> tries first to treat it as an option, and that's why "--" works --
> because it tells "mv" itself to stop treating it as an option, and to
> treat it as a filename instead.
>
> That is also why "./---new.avi" works. All filenames (except those
> starting with / such as /home or /usr, of course) can have an added
> directory at the beginning, and the obvious one is ./ but you could also
> use "$PWD/---new.avi" if you wanted. Since it doesn't start with a dash,
> it can't be an option.
>


Well, I did try single quotes, double quotes and other stuff I'd seen
before but none worked.  Eventually, I ran out of ideas.  I've never ran
into anything that required more than that either.  So, I brought up my
search engine and then it hit me, what do I search for????  I went
outside, watered my kale and collard green seeds, and did some
thinking.  I couldn't even think of what to search for to find a
answer.  Given it didn't work in a GUI or command line, I was kinda
lost.  I did know tho, there was a way.  There had to be.  I decided to
just ask. 

Now I have lots more info in case I run up on this again.  I also added
a entry to my tips cheat sheet.  Oh, I can also run Frank's checksum
tool on that directory.  I store that data for someone else.  It should
ever change.  That's the reason for the checksum tool for it. 

Thanks much. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  My mustard and turnip greens are popping up.  That will make
family, friends and neighbors happy.  I had to reseed my collard and
kale.  May have put first planting to deep. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Andrew Lowe]

On 10/29/24 11:18 PM, Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I downloaded some files.  I have a few that have some weird names.  Some
> have those picture type characters.  Some start with a dash, "-".  In
[snip]

	Plenty of people have replied with good info. My 2c from when I came 
across this exact problem is "vidir" contained in "moreutils".

	Also, thumbs up for the tid-bit on "--" terminating the options string.

	Andrew

Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Jack Ostroff]

On 10/31/24 10:25 PM, Andrew Lowe wrote:
> On 10/29/24 11:18 PM, Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I downloaded some files.  I have a few that have some weird names.  Some
>> have those picture type characters.  Some start with a dash, "-".  In
> [snip]
>
>     Plenty of people have replied with good info. My 2c from when I 
> came across this exact problem is "vidir" contained in "moreutils".
>
>     Also, thumbs up for the tid-bit on "--" terminating the options 
> string.
>
>     Andrew

To add another 2c, 'ls -b' should show escape sequences you should be 
able to use to type in the characters, so I'm curious what that would 
have showed.  I also still wonder what Dolphin did - Dale said it  
failed, but not how.

Jack

Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Dale]

Jack Ostroff wrote:
> On 10/31/24 10:25 PM, Andrew Lowe wrote:
>> On 10/29/24 11:18 PM, Dale wrote:
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> I downloaded some files.  I have a few that have some weird names. 
>>> Some
>>> have those picture type characters.  Some start with a dash, "-".  In
>> [snip]
>>
>>     Plenty of people have replied with good info. My 2c from when I
>> came across this exact problem is "vidir" contained in "moreutils".
>>
>>     Also, thumbs up for the tid-bit on "--" terminating the options
>> string.
>>
>>     Andrew
>
> To add another 2c, 'ls -b' should show escape sequences you should be
> able to use to type in the characters, so I'm curious what that would
> have showed.  I also still wonder what Dolphin did - Dale said it 
> failed, but not how.
>
> Jack
>
>
>


Believe it or not, it said the files didn't exist when I tried to rename
in Properties.  Also, thumbnails wouldn't work either.  It wouldn't work
for pics, videos, documents or anything.  I guess I'm lucky it showed
them at all.  Once those characters were removed, then thumbnails and
such showed up again. 

It was interesting problem for sure.  I'm not sure if it can be fixed
tho.  Fix that problem and it could break something else.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Renaming files with those pesky picture type characters.

[Wol]

On 29/10/2024 15:18, Dale wrote:
> Some of the other characters I run into look like this.
> 
> 
> ����

As I understand it, these are typically characters your display doesn't 
know how to display. Eg Unicode for which it doesn't have a glyph. Or 
(unlikely nowadays) 8-bit Latin characters when all you've got is 7-bit 
Ascii.

Bear in mind as far as linux is concerned, a file name is a string of 
bytes ending in null, with a couple of forbidden characters eg "/". So 
if your shell or whatever doesn't know how to display the bytes, that's 
what it does.

Cheers,
Wol