[gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Shawn Haggett]

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I recently installed the unstable version of portage (2.1_pre4-r1) so I
could get access to the logging facilities (specifically having it send
me emails of information instead of needing to watch the emerge output).

However a recent 'emerge -Duva world --newuse' turned up a long list of
packages. Closer inspection showed that packages had been built with
flags such as mysql, but thought it was now turned off and wanted to
rebuild without it. That was odd so I checked ufed first and found it
listed the flag as enables in use.defaults. I also then installed
profuse and it also reported the flag as enabled in use.defaults and
therefore the box was already selected for the use flag, only allowing
me to turn it off. I had to instead add the flag into my make.conf file
before emerge would see the flag as still being turned on as it should be.

Has anyone else experienced this behaviour? Is it something to do with
modifications to how the new portage version handles use flags that
hasn't been incorporated into ufed or profuse yet?

Shawn
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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Friday 10 February 2006 20:20, Shawn Haggett <podge@podgeweb.com> wrote 
about '[gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour':
> I recently installed the unstable version of portage.
>
> However a recent 'emerge -Duva world --newuse' turned up a long list of
> packages. Closer inspection showed that packages had been built with
> flags such as mysql, but thought it was now turned off and wanted to
> rebuild without it.
>
> Has anyone else experienced this behaviour? Is it something to do with
> modifications to how the new portage version handles use flags that
> hasn't been incorporated into ufed or profuse yet?

This is a well-documented change in portage.  The use.defaults file is no 
longer used.  Previously, this file would turn on use flags that were 
neither enabled nor disabled based on packages you had installed.  This 
was a bad idea to begin with, IMHO; RIP use.defaults.

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
bss03@volumehost.com
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Shawn Haggett]

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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> On Friday 10 February 2006 20:20, Shawn Haggett <podge@podgeweb.com> wrote 
> about '[gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour':
>> I recently installed the unstable version of portage.
>>
>> However a recent 'emerge -Duva world --newuse' turned up a long list of
>> packages. Closer inspection showed that packages had been built with
>> flags such as mysql, but thought it was now turned off and wanted to
>> rebuild without it.
>>
>> Has anyone else experienced this behaviour? Is it something to do with
>> modifications to how the new portage version handles use flags that
>> hasn't been incorporated into ufed or profuse yet?
> 
> This is a well-documented change in portage.  The use.defaults file is no 
> longer used.  Previously, this file would turn on use flags that were 
> neither enabled nor disabled based on packages you had installed.  This 
> was a bad idea to begin with, IMHO; RIP use.defaults.
> 
Ahh, I figured something like this, just hadn't RTFM apparently. That's
what I get for living on the edge.

Cheers
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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

On Saturday 11 February 2006 05:08, "b.n." <brullonulla@gmail.com> wrote 
about 'Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour':
> > This is a well-documented change in portage.  The use.defaults file is
> > no longer used.  Previously, this file would turn on use flags that
> > were neither enabled nor disabled based on packages you had installed.
> >  This was a bad idea to begin with, IMHO; RIP use.defaults.
>
> Why a bad idea? I find it made things easier. Of course you
> can disable [the flags] if you don't appear to like [them].

To much magic that was poorly understood by users and caused use flags to 
"inexplicably" change state.  (It might turn off flags when packages were 
removed e.g.)  Plus, it's more "the gentoo way" to not make decisions for 
the user -- an einfo at the end of the emerge would probably be more in 
line with that philosophy.  All IMHO, BTW.

> use.defaults appeared to me like healthy, rational behaviour and an help
> for the end user. Why has it been dropped?

You'd have to ask a gentoo developer for a real answer to that question.  
(I suggest Cirian M. [sorry if I misspelled your name] for this, just 
don't ask his for a filesystem recommendation ;).)

-- 
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
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ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy
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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[b.n.]

> This is a well-documented change in portage.  The use.defaults file is no 
> longer used.  Previously, this file would turn on use flags that were 
> neither enabled nor disabled based on packages you had installed.  This 
> was a bad idea to begin with, IMHO; RIP use.defaults.

Why a bad idea? I find it made things easier. If you install SANE for 
example it is almost obvious you have installed a scanner and you 
probably need the "scanner" use flag. So use.defaults did. Of course you 
can disable it if you don't appear to like it.

use.defaults appeared to me like healthy, rational behaviour and an help 
for the end user. Why has it been dropped?

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Abhay Kedia]

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On Saturday 11 February 2006 16:38, b.n. wrote:
>
> Why a bad idea? I find it made things easier. If you install SANE for
> example it is almost obvious you have installed a scanner and you
> probably need the "scanner" use flag. So use.defaults did. Of course you
> can disable it if you don't appear to like it.
>
...but why enable it in the first place? It is not what Gentoo should do for 
me. USE flags is optional stuff and should stay that way, rather than portage 
trying to force an option down my throat.

I first experienced this thing when I installed MySQL to use with amaroK. Ok I 
want it to manage my >20K files music collection but thats it!!! I don't want 
lots of other packages to think that I want MySQL support in them as well. If 
I want it, I would enable it. Why should portage enable this USE flag in all 
of the packages and force me to disable it? Similar is with JDK. If I am 
installing JDK to compile my occasional JAVA programs then why enable it for 
GCC, DB, OpenOffice and what not. It was an irritating thing imho. If portage 
thinks that an option is vital for a package's functioning then it should not 
be a USE flag and if it is a USE flag then it should *allow me* to decide 
whether I want to *enable* it or not.

-- 
Regards,
Abhay

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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Walter Dnes]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 06:58:10PM +0530, Abhay Kedia wrote

> I first experienced this thing when I installed MySQL to use with
> amaroK. Ok I want it to manage my >20K files music collection but
> thats it!!! I don't want lots of other packages to think that I want
> MySQL support in them as well. If I want it, I would enable it. Why
> should portage enable this USE flag in all of the packages and force
> me to disable it? Similar is with JDK. If I am installing JDK to
> compile my occasional JAVA programs then why enable it for GCC,
> DB, OpenOffice and what not. It was an irritating thing imho. If
> portage thinks that an option is vital for a package's functioning
> then it should not be a USE flag and if it is a USE flag then it
> should *allow me* to decide whether I want to *enable* it or not.

  My introduction to this behaviour occured when the developers, in
their infinite wisdom, decided to make ipv6 a default flag.  The extra
bloat was bad enough.  And then some network/web apps would spin their
wheels for 60 seconds or so, waiting for an IPV6 lookup to time out,
before finally deciding that maybe they should try IPV4 lookups instead.
To prevent such surprises in future, I now put "-*" at the front of my
USE variable in /etc/make.conf, like so..

USE="-* 3dnow X a52 aac alsa bzip2 cdr dga dio divx4linux dri dvd dvdr dvdread encode exif ffmpeg flac fortran gb gif gtk2 imlib jpeg maildir mikmod mime mmap mmx mng mp3 mpeg ncurses nptl nptlonly nsplugin offensive ogg opengl plotutils png posix quicktime readline sdl sharedmem slang sockets sse theora threads tiff truetype vcd vorbis win32codecs wmf xpm xv zlib"

  This way, I'm in full control.  Only the flags I specify are USEd.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org> In linux /sbin/init is Job #1
My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca
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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Gilberto Martins]

Hi list.

I have a problem and maybe it is simple to use. But consider I am a
Debian renegade, searching for protection under Gentoo Roof ...   :)

I have the following Disc Configuration:

/dev/hda = CDROM
/dev/hdb = Hard Disk

After hours of pain, I decided to start gentoo all in memory, using
"gentoo docache" string at minimun CD start. After that, all the steps
went fine.

Following Gentoo handbook, I did the following:

/dev/hdb1 -> /boot
/dev/hdb2 -> swap
/dev/hdb3 -> /

During the start of installation, I did as recommended in handbook:

/mnt/gentoo  -> /
/mnt/gentoo/boot  -> /boot

Then, kindly selected GRUB, and did this simple /boot/grub.conf file:

default 0
timeout 0
splashimage=(dhb0,0)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz

title Gentoo Linux 2.6.12.gentoo-r10
root (hd0,0)
kernel /boot/2.6.12-gentoo-r10 root=/dev/hdb3

After this, I tried to exec

grub-install (hd0)

And a message points that "/dev/hdb1 doe not have any corresponding
BIOS drive". So I did it by GRUB itself.

Now, I start the computer, and receive the following messages:

GRUB Loading stage1.5   -> here I wait several minutes, and the HD is working
GRUB loading, please wait  -> here I wait much more.

As I see, I am having troubles with GRUB itself, not Gentoo. Can
Somebody show me what could be done ?

Thanx

Gilberto Martins
Brazil

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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Rumen Yotov]

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Hi,
On Sat, 2006-02-11 at 23:48 -0200, Gilberto Martins wrote:
> Hi list.
> 
> I have a problem and maybe it is simple to use. But consider I am a
> Debian renegade, searching for protection under Gentoo Roof ...   :)
> 
> I have the following Disc Configuration:
> 
> /dev/hda = CDROM
> /dev/hdb = Hard Disk
> 
> After hours of pain, I decided to start gentoo all in memory, using
> "gentoo docache" string at minimun CD start. After that, all the steps
> went fine.
> 
> Following Gentoo handbook, I did the following:
> 
> /dev/hdb1 -> /boot
> /dev/hdb2 -> swap
> /dev/hdb3 -> /
> 
> During the start of installation, I did as recommended in handbook:
> 
> /mnt/gentoo  -> /
> /mnt/gentoo/boot  -> /boot
> 
> Then, kindly selected GRUB, and did this simple /boot/grub.conf file:
> 
> default 0
> timeout 0
> splashimage=(dhb0,0)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> 
> title Gentoo Linux 2.6.12.gentoo-r10
> root (hd0,0)
> kernel /boot/2.6.12-gentoo-r10 root=/dev/hdb3
> 
Remove the "boot" part from path to kernel IIRC, check the docs.
Also check the kernel filename, usually it's named another way.
> After this, I tried to exec
> 
> grub-install (hd0)
> 
> And a message points that "/dev/hdb1 doe not have any corresponding
> BIOS drive". So I did it by GRUB itself.
> 
> Now, I start the computer, and receive the following messages:
> 
> GRUB Loading stage1.5   -> here I wait several minutes, and the HD is working
> GRUB loading, please wait  -> here I wait much more.
> 
> As I see, I am having troubles with GRUB itself, not Gentoo. Can
> Somebody show me what could be done ?
> 
> Thanx
> 
> Gilberto Martins
> Brazil
> 
HTH.Rumen

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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Gilberto Martins]

Hi again ...
---cut---
> > Then, kindly selected GRUB, and did this simple /boot/grub.conf file:
> >
> > default 0
> > timeout 0
> > splashimage=(dhb0,0)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> >
> > title Gentoo Linux 2.6.12.gentoo-r10
> > root (hd0,0)
> > kernel /boot/2.6.12-gentoo-r10 root=/dev/hdb3
> >
> Remove the "boot" part from path to kernel IIRC, check the docs.
> Also check the kernel filename, usually it's named another way.

I changed to this:

   splashimage=(dhb0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz

and

   root (hd0,0)
   kernel /2.6.12-gentoo-r10 root=/dev/hdb3

But nothing differente happened.

Concerning to Kernel name, does it must have a specific name format ?
If yes, wich would be the name ?

Thanks again.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Norberto Bensa]

Gilberto Martins wrote:
> > > Then, kindly selected GRUB, and did this simple /boot/grub.conf file:

You meant /boot/grub/menu.conf (or /boot/grub/grub.conf)

> > > splashimage=(dhb0,0)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz

...=(hd0,0)/....


> > Also check the kernel filename, usually it's named another way.

...

> Concerning to Kernel name, does it must have a specific name format ?
> If yes, wich would be the name ?

It doesn't matter

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Re: [gentoo-user] Weird USE flag behaviour

[Rumen Yotov]

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Hi,
On Sun, 2006-02-12 at 13:30 -0300, Gilberto Martins wrote:
> Hi again ...
> ---cut---
> > > Then, kindly selected GRUB, and did this simple /boot/grub.conf file:
> > >
> > > default 0
> > > timeout 0
> > > splashimage=(dhb0,0)/boot/grub/splash.xpm.gz
think this is a typo^, mine is:splashimage=(hd0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> > >
> > > title Gentoo Linux 2.6.12.gentoo-r10
> > > root (hd0,0)
> > > kernel /boot/2.6.12-gentoo-r10 root=/dev/hdb3
> > >
> > Remove the "boot" part from path to kernel IIRC, check the docs.
> > Also check the kernel filename, usually it's named another way.
> 
> I changed to this:
> 
>    splashimage=(dhb0,0)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
> 
> and
> 
>    root (hd0,0)
>    kernel /2.6.12-gentoo-r10 root=/dev/hdb3
> 
> But nothing differente happened.
> 
> Concerning to Kernel name, does it must have a specific name format ?
> If yes, wich would be the name ?
No i don't think is *has* to be a fixed name, but most people comply to
some conventions (e.x. kernel-2.6.15-r3, gentoo-kernel-2.6.15-r4 etc.)
Using 'genkernel' so don't remember, check install guide if interested.
Check grub man page & guide as Grub has some strange naming conventions.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
HTH.Rumen

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