From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E41931382C5 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:18:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7315AE0970; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:18:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [212.227.15.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C35BBE0959 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 21:18:31 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1607894299; bh=wdwRZHQNYOTHcEX6K3goReGDQa0morEzclWSlEetDo0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=HoAE4/jkZAKqFKg2Bl6qQjc8y5P7B+7+sGOkPkMlf4KdEpZ8yuC8AV5QeAfeeFNdh xsWX5tr/6iOypl5sTzT1m5/1VlDoYa8S9P/bIuF4M6NmnF4vGzIWcn/Qiwbu7H+T9C NeIjvGN3TsZQxPrhHmQ4GA+EMNlYjw3bkVYenfno= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from [192.168.178.96] ([95.118.141.238]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb002 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MZliY-1kXaOz0wMI-00LWy6 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 22:18:19 +0100 Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] update fails, but I don't see why To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <650a1d1d-e2a6-6a55-b07b-af65a877d44e@web.de> <20201212223503.6d46ad41@digimed.co.uk> <32af647f-a0e1-77e7-ff0f-4a5495e45f6b@web.de> <20201213081731.16f5dc53@digimed.co.uk> <3c2d9eae-d102-d695-a512-09cbfea13b4a@gmail.com> From: n952162 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 22:14:20 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.4.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:kpb373XLUN6Qx78bT1t7JMUGAxC1qnTUW8VQA57lRxQuXZeKD5a 9NvGCdNNg6C3I2XaCrpONr+j8uN8PTkbIjFYlW+t8nS/6YsbXWYYeojwYt6fHv3T/1a2avK B6trRH2b3Bp1MdikyAYNxWYaMaysSFrSaKWPDvB6gHX0/cJO3Ya3azFGGupm0nUy8WYJR0f 5abOIBTbDsq5xMAewu5nw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:hMgWjFHv0HI=:p2FhddEra7IMT3tcRtZIoo 5Y78bSojX3SC5cAsdt1lxuTvK9xYm+jcbEh6KUf4QyYcxHWDA96+Z9nII0Kx1Jvf/xEMoidXS t/IrwkifVMoIXVtaXG8RhtdAAbYO6Mxd7A57aL6VelCwTlIuGLv4aizS2+2jpX4UqxYtlocSy seexgStNDPBtwgN4Nb8DGNCAEdsQYeD2qX5FCJqKYpZ0l2zci4Kha5Y5jtJUNimV7F544RHl3 KPM564+znHytunn9vdNSrL9/gKOJBcdyFUWkD6Y3ZyCvLUmJwYVXQTRdYnbYdqZ0HREIL++9i 6GxAC9jmAZKzQl7FIH/kbqj8q4GBwdQ9/SyBWgwbQ0WOuRK6DCSiKIJJJwVRBnSb8Z3pekvHY 4XjDRkZ7bzy31dd0ouFEKOVdkx2OKfbzhTG7NFB7OteWfRTutMlgcCK0gEeeyqmUaw0Kktm5w m0zQ2unxHltPHx0zAFSn/eYup4mOeMNe7hjBQCY8sCyOF5tPYSgSr5gVH+RJjx/F2ngXE9+wH t4z4HYrPeGenvPGd5kjefPfzIJZJfAiloQivUBWT4DqSt30Pmo4T/3DQu2/ireuXoT7W3JNEN sijCrnvmghRYpsxl1YezxRM3i5C8f2TNHud9tDsTzcvvk4f4fxziM/QXVp4xlA5htFv931CKA QJtif7cS9Ljo9jeiOM+Jr32K4nKrDJimcfYaUWsvhSvH2RBga170Cletwzq99R73UeS6UZM3L eXWg3KgCjCk8aPqjEJfJQgu5zHZl/ya+uVr6p65sKNeUEiKUEhZvpTvZnjB+qaK9LkocnZABH eHJxbjI1FUEaTY+zoVPlzjd87g0o8O2YDknhyctXK98TI25LGOL+Mx3RHo2kkb57JcO5TLp19 VnSq0Tv/f6vzBU86a0sQ== X-Archives-Salt: ba7f5135-f4bd-4797-84dd-ec2fc7ec4e12 X-Archives-Hash: 49e5beb2bd0fc5c01f485042d8a6682d On 12/13/20 10:02 PM, n952162 wrote: > On 12/13/20 9:06 PM, Dale wrote: >> Mark Knecht wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 12:03 PM n952162 >> > wrote: >>>> On 12/13/20 9:18 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: >>>>> Nearly 2 months, quite a long time in Gentoo update terms. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Okay, is the solution then to re-install? >>>> >>> Personally I wouldn't start with a reinstall. >>> >>> I'd start with my world file and remove/comment out every >>> 'application' not required to keep the machine running/booting. That >>> should be nearly everything other than things like grub, your kernels, >>> hardware drivers, terminals, etc. >>> >>> NOTE: Just because you comment something out in the world file doesn't >>> mean it won't run, it just won't get updated or be part of portage's >>> considerations about what to do. >>> >>> At that point emerge=C2=A0@world should only be considering, from a bu= ild >>> POV, the stuff you really need. >>> >>> This python problem everyone is having I cannot help with. Solving >>> problems like that is why people run Gentoo. With lots of power comes >>> lots of responsibility. However with all the applications >>> 'unconsidered' you have a chance of getting the really important stuff >>> built and booting. >>> >>> If I got that far then I'd start adding apps back in/uncommenting one >>> or two at a time and see if I could make headway. >>> >>> I've updated machines that were a year out of date but it took days >>> and days. If I didn't want to build code every week I decided I >>> couldn't run Gentoo. >>> >>> HTH, >>> Mark >> >> I agree.=C2=A0 I update once a week.=C2=A0 It seems a pretty good balan= ce between >> not having to do it to often and not having such drastic changes that i= t >> makes things hard to work through. >> >> That said, when the tree is in the process of huge changes, it can >> create problems even with weekly updates.=C2=A0 Right now, it is python= and >> the speed it is moving at.=C2=A0 Some versions that have been around fo= r >> ages, 2.7, is being removed.=C2=A0 Then python 3.6 is leaving etc etc e= tc. >> Those of us that have been around long enough have seen this with other >> packages as well.=C2=A0 Some packages are just hard to upgrade to begin= with >> and some create circular problems. The longer it goes between updates, >> the larger that problem gets to be.=C2=A0 You get two different package= s >> doing that, you can find yourself running around in circles trying to >> get emerge to chew what it can. >> >> While I usually do updates on Sunday evening, I'm considering doing >> twice a week, Sunday and Wednesday.=C2=A0 At least until python settles= down >> a bit. Thing is, I think the worst part may be about over.=C2=A0 I thin= k 2.7 >> is gone here, I think 3.6 is too.=C2=A0 That's two down.=C2=A0 It seems= 3.7 and >> above will be around a while but if they start going away soon, I may d= o >> two updates a week if it starts making updates harder. >> >> Time can be a problem but sometimes it just depends on what packages >> have changed and how fast they have changed.=C2=A0 For some systems tha= t >> haven't been updated in a while, having to remove python 2.7 and 3.6 in >> one go, can cause problems that are hard to get around.=C2=A0 Right now= just >> isn't a good time to let updates get to far apart. >> >> The only thing that makes some of this survivable, getting help on this >> mailing list.=C2=A0 Some people can decode the output of emerge and fin= d a >> way to work through it. Some are fairly easy, some not so much. >> Sometimes removing/commenting out things in the world file will help. >> Sometimes doing @system first helps. Sometimes you just have to update >> certain packages in small chunks to get through a upgrade. Finding that >> right option sometimes requires help. >> >> Just some thoughts. >> >> Dale >> >> :-)=C2=A0 :-) >> >> >> > > My problem is I can't find a diagnostic methodology.=C2=A0 The one I mos= t > often hear is, update more often, or trail and error solutions. > > Does all that information in emerge's output point the way to the > problem, and I just have to learn to understand it,=C2=A0 or am I just > wasting my time there?=C2=A0 Are there better tools than log parsing? I = know, > there are lots of good tools,=C2=A0 but there needs to be methodology fo= r > using them (like understanding gentoo ;-) ) > > But commenting stuff out of the world file is at least a path. I'll start with that tomorrow.