[gentoo-user] k3b access rights

[gentoo-user] k3b access rights

[Michael Kintzios]

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  . . or at least this is what I suspect being wrong:
==========================
IDE DVD-ROM x16   /dev/hdb  660 root.cdrom  666.root.cdrom
PHILIPS DVD8421    /dev/hda  660 root.cdrom  666 root.cdrom
==========================

==========================
cdrdao 1.2.0  /usr/bin/cdrdao  4711 root.root   no change
cdrecord 2.1  /usr/bin/cdrecord  0755 root.root  no change
==========================

This is my fstab:
==========================
# DEVICES
/dev/cdrom              /mnt/cdrw       iso9660         noauto,rw,uid=1001,user         0 0
/dev/cdrom1             /mnt/cdrom1     iso9660         noauto,ro,user          0 0
==========================

BTW, when I mount the cdrw I get this message:  "mount: block device /dev/cdrom is write-protected, mounting read-only".  This is the /mnt/cdrw access rights:
==========================
drwx------   2 root root   48 Nov 19 14:33 cdrom1
dr-xr-xr-x   1 suzy root 2048 Jan  2 19:44 cdrw
==========================
(suzy is the uid=1001)  I would like to have the DVD mountable by other uid's too, but having just "user" in fstab causes problems mounting it as a simple user.

Any suggestions?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

Lycos email has now 300 Megabytes of free storage... Get it now at mail.lycos.co.uk

Re: [gentoo-user] k3b access rights

[Holly Bostick]

Michael Kintzios schreef:
> . . or at least this is what I suspect being wrong: 
> ========================== IDE DVD-ROM x16   /dev/hdb  660 root.cdrom
> 666.root.cdrom PHILIPS DVD8421    /dev/hda  660 root.cdrom  666
> root.cdrom ==========================
> 
> ========================== cdrdao 1.2.0  /usr/bin/cdrdao  4711
> root.root   no change cdrecord 2.1  /usr/bin/cdrecord  0755 root.root
> no change ==========================
> 
> This is my fstab: ========================== # DEVICES /dev/cdrom
> /mnt/cdrw       iso9660         noauto,rw,uid=1001,user         0 0 
> /dev/cdrom1             /mnt/cdrom1     iso9660
> noauto,ro,user          0 0 ==========================
> 
> BTW, when I mount the cdrw I get this message:  "mount: block device
> /dev/cdrom is write-protected, mounting read-only".  This is the
> /mnt/cdrw access rights: ========================== drwx------   2
> root root   48 Nov 19 14:33 cdrom1 dr-xr-xr-x   1 suzy root 2048 Jan
> 2 19:44 cdrw ========================== (suzy is the uid=1001)  I
> would like to have the DVD mountable by other uid's too, but having
> just "user" in fstab causes problems mounting it as a simple user.
> 
> Any suggestions?

I don't understand what your problem is, sorry. But I think that's
because you haven't actually said what your problem is, or whether it's
with K3b or general use of the drive.

You don't mount the cd/dvd in order to write to it with K3b (or
whatever); iirc the application uses raw device access, but whether that
is correct or not, you unquestionably don't mount the device to use a
burning program. Nor do you mount the drive in order to play an audio CD
(which also uses raw device access, which requires that the device *not*
be mounted).

Second, for general use (video viewing, game playing, etc) what you most
likely want is the "users" (note the "s" at the end) option, which
allows any user to mount/unmount the drive, as opposed to just one:

from man mount:

 user   Allow  an  ordinary  user  to mount the file system.  The name
of the mounting user is written to mtab so
                     that he can unmount the file system again.  This
option implies the options  noexec,  nosuid,  and  nodev
                     (unless overridden by subsequent options, as in the
option line user,exec,dev,suid).

users  Allow  every  user to mount and unmount the file system.  This
option implies the options noexec, nosuid,
                     and nodev (unless overridden by subsequent options,
as in the option line users,exec,dev,suid).


If you're trying to play a game from CD, you might also consider the
"exec" option (so that you can execute the game binary from the CD,
since as you see above, certain options are "implied" by the 'user'or
'users' options that will be enabled unless specifically disabled after
the 'user' or 'users' option).

There's also the expedient of whether your users are in the
cdrom/cdrw/dvd/whatever group, which gives them relevant access to said
drives (and whether or not certain applications are looking for members
of this group in order to enable said user to use the program). For
example, K3b can be set to only allow access to users in a specific
group, but it doesn't /have/ to be set that way.

That's about all I can tell you without knowing specifically what you're
trying to do and what exactly is going wrong (above the fact that other
users are not able to mount the drive).

HTH,
Holly
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RE: [gentoo-user] k3b access rights

[Michael Kintzios]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Holly Bostick [mailto:motub@planet.nl] 
> Sent: 03 January 2006 08:31
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] k3b access rights
> 
> 
> I don't understand what your problem is, sorry. But I think that's
> because you haven't actually said what your problem is, or 
> whether it's
> with K3b or general use of the drive.

Apologies, I was so immersed in it all that I _naturally_ expected
everybody else to be able to read my mind!

> You don't mount the cd/dvd in order to write to it with K3b (or
> whatever); iirc the application uses raw device access, but 
> whether that
> is correct or not, you unquestionably don't mount the device to use a
> burning program. Nor do you mount the drive in order to play 
> an audio CD
> (which also uses raw device access, which requires that the 
> device *not*
> be mounted).

Thanks, I think I might have mounted the disk and then tried to delete
something on it.

> Second, for general use (video viewing, game playing, etc) 
> what you most
> likely want is the "users" (note the "s" at the end) option, which
> allows any user to mount/unmount the drive, as opposed to just one:
> 
> from man mount:
> 
>  user   Allow  an  ordinary  user  to mount the file system.  The name
> of the mounting user is written to mtab so
>                      that he can unmount the file system again.  This
> option implies the options  noexec,  nosuid,  and  nodev
>                      (unless overridden by subsequent 
> options, as in the
> option line user,exec,dev,suid).
> 
> users  Allow  every  user to mount and unmount the file system.  This
> option implies the options noexec, nosuid,
>                      and nodev (unless overridden by 
> subsequent options,
> as in the option line users,exec,dev,suid).

So if I want a single user at-a-time to be able to mount the DVD drives
I just enter user?  From memory I think I had concluded that adding the
uid was necessary for CDROMS and NTFS/VFAT fs partitions, otherwise it
was asking for fs type, or was coming up with "only root can do that"
type of errors.  Need to try this again and make some notes.

The problems that I have are probably two-fold.  The generic one is that
I am not sure I have the correct mount options in /etc/fstab and that I
created the /mnt/cdrw, /mnt/cdrom1 etc. mountpoints with the correct
access rights.  What are the default mount options and /mnt/mountpoints
access rights for DVD writer and DVDROM?  Ditto for NTFS?

The specific one is that I tried to delete a folder from a re-writable
CD: a)while I was browsing it in konqueror and b)using k3b, but it
couldn't do it.  I'll try again when I get home to see if it behaves as
expected after I ensure that it has not been mounted.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] k3b access rights

[Holly Bostick]

Michael Kintzios schreef:
<snip>
>> Second, for general use (video viewing, game playing, etc) what you
>>  most likely want is the "users" (note the "s" at the end) option, 
>> which allows any user to mount/unmount the drive, as opposed to 
>> just one:
>> 
>> from man mount:
>> 
>> user   Allow  an  ordinary  user  to mount the file system.  The 
>> name of the mounting user is written to mtab so that he can unmount
>>  the file system again.  This option implies the options  noexec, 
>> nosuid,  and  nodev (unless overridden by subsequent options, as in
>>  the option line user,exec,dev,suid).
>> 
>> users  Allow  every  user to mount and unmount the file system. 
>> This option implies the options noexec, nosuid, and nodev (unless 
>> overridden by subsequent options, as in the option line 
>> users,exec,dev,suid).
> 
> 
> So if I want a single user at-a-time to be able to mount the DVD 
> drives I just enter user?  From memory I think I had concluded that 
> adding the uid was necessary for CDROMS and NTFS/VFAT fs partitions, 
> otherwise it was asking for fs type, or was coming up with "only root
> can do that" type of errors.  Need to try this again and make some
> notes.
> 
> The problems that I have are probably two-fold.  The generic one is 
> that I am not sure I have the correct mount options in /etc/fstab and
>  that I created the /mnt/cdrw, /mnt/cdrom1 etc. mountpoints with the 
> correct access rights.  What are the default mount options and 
> /mnt/mountpoints access rights for DVD writer and DVDROM?  Ditto for 
> NTFS?

Sorry, I don't use NTFS, and I only have one user (me)-- and I don't use
/mnt/cdrom or /mnt/cdrw (or /mnt/ anything other than the self-created
/mnt/iso for mounting loopback images)-- my DVD is mounted to
/media/(cdrecorder) by udev (afaik it's udev that does it).

I take it you don't use udev? Or are you just under the impression that
you have to have /mnt/something (I had this problem for the first bit
after I switched)? In general use, /mnt./blah is kinda deprecated.

However, I do know that enabling writing to NTFS partitions in the
kernel is not recommended, unless you meet very specific criteria (as
the kernel driver can only overwrite a file of the exact same size to
such a partition, making editing pre-existing files pretty much
impossible; no idea about creating a new file).

UID/GID is (kinda) necessary for VFAT partitions, only to deal with the
possible ownership issues; if you specify the UID/GID of the expected
owner, that UID/GID can/will have write privileges to the partition
(automatically if UID, when specified if GID), which is useful for
shared partitions across multiple distros or OSes and sometimes for
multiple users on the same OS. But you may not need any given partition
to have write privileges. If, for example, the partition is only full of
music files that only need read privileges to play, which you'll almost
always have when mounting a partition. But if you wanted to
edit the ID2/3 tags of the music files, you would need write privileges.
But how many users on your system are actually likely to be editing such
tags-- given that said users could also destroy said files with a
Windows virus if the virus targeted MP3s and the user had write
privileges to the partition containing them? As the admin, you are
responsible for knowing what accesses your users actually need, and
balancing that against the dangers of giving them such access.

It really depends on what your specific setup needs, which we cannot know.

> 
> The specific one is that I tried to delete a folder from a 
> re-writable CD: a)while I was browsing it in konqueror and b)using 
> k3b, but it couldn't do it.  I'll try again when I get home to see if
>  it behaves as expected after I ensure that it has not been mounted.

Um, hello, this is not WindowsXP. We do not packet-write (that means
treat a CD as if it was a floppy and write to it directly from the file
manager). You can (kinda) do this, if your kernel is set up to enable
packet-writing, but honestly that functionality is quite unstable and I
wouldn't use it even if I did like packet writing (which I do not and
never have in the some 6 to 7 years since it was introduced).

Basically what would need to happen in the real (Linux) world, without
packet writing, is that a CD burning program would have to create a temp
ISO of the files on the CDRW (which afaik it would have to be) without
the folder that you intended to delete, erase the current contents of
the CDRW and then rewrite the CDRW with the new ISO (which would
essentially delete the folder). But I could be wrong, as I don't use -RW
media anymore (and this is one of the reasons why).

In any case, I'm not completely sure that your expectations are
reasonable for the environment. Certainly expecting Konq to delete a
folder on a CD is unlikely to happen (because the device must be
mounted for Konq to see it, and the device is not going to be mounted
read-write under any circumstances; this is why, afaik, the kernel only
marks
the device as writeable using the ide-cd driver and then CD burning
programs use raw device access to access and write to it). I have no
idea whether Konq supports packet writing if enabled in the kernel, but
I would seriously doubt that it does.

K3b would likely do the whole "create a temp ISO without the
proposed-to-delete folder, erase, and reburn" thing, but it's possible
that you don't have K3b properly set up to do this (do you have a
location set for the creation of temporary ISO files, for example? Is
there enough space there for the temp file?). As I said, this is not
something I do, not using -RW media, but as far as I can see it's a
whole process. What errors precisely are you getting, so we could see
where in the process it may be failing?

HTH,
Holly

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Re: [gentoo-user] k3b access rights

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:25:07 -0000, Michael Kintzios wrote:

> So if I want a single user at-a-time to be able to mount the DVD drives
> I just enter user? 

user or users. The difference is that with user, only the user that
mounted a filesystem, or root, can umount it. With users, user A can
mount a filesystem and user B can umount it.


-- 
Neil Bothwick
Gotta run, cat's caught in the printer...

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[gentoo-user] Re: k3b access rights

[Mick]

Holly Bostick wrote:

> 
> Sorry, I don't use NTFS, and I only have one user (me)-- and I don't use
> /mnt/cdrom or /mnt/cdrw (or /mnt/ anything other than the self-created
> /mnt/iso for mounting loopback images)-- my DVD is mounted to
> /media/(cdrecorder) by udev (afaik it's udev that does it).

I take it that you also have hald or ivman sorting out your mounts
automatically for you?

> I take it you don't use udev? Or are you just under the impression that
> you have to have /mnt/something (I had this problem for the first bit
> after I switched)? In general use, /mnt./blah is kinda deprecated.

I am using udev but never bothered with automounting (yet).
 
> However, I do know that enabling writing to NTFS partitions in the
> kernel is not recommended, unless you meet very specific criteria (as
> the kernel driver can only overwrite a file of the exact same size to
> such a partition, making editing pre-existing files pretty much
> impossible; no idea about creating a new file).

As I understand it the same applies with editing unless the changes result
in exactly the same size file.  Right, what are the chances of that?!  The
only way to rw NTFS partitions safely is with Captive, which uses the
ntfs.sys driver with WINE.

> UID/GID is (kinda) necessary for VFAT partitions, only to deal with the
> possible ownership issues; if you specify the UID/GID of the expected
> owner, that UID/GID can/will have write privileges to the partition
> (automatically if UID, when specified if GID), which is useful for
> shared partitions across multiple distros or OSes and sometimes for
> multiple users on the same OS.

I just tried it out and as long as I do not specify ro vfat partitions get
mounted with rw rights, even if I do not add the uid.  From memory I think
that I had to add the uid in the distant past when devfs/udev was playing
up with a particular kernel version - but can't remember for sure.

>> 
>> The specific one is that I tried to delete a folder from a
>> re-writable CD: a)while I was browsing it in konqueror and b)using
>> k3b, but it couldn't do it.  I'll try again when I get home to see if
>>  it behaves as expected after I ensure that it has not been mounted.

> Um, hello, this is not WindowsXP. We do not packet-write (that means
> treat a CD as if it was a floppy and write to it directly from the file
> manager). You can (kinda) do this, if your kernel is set up to enable
> packet-writing, but honestly that functionality is quite unstable and I
> wouldn't use it even if I did like packet writing (which I do not and
> never have in the some 6 to 7 years since it was introduced).

Sorry, I guess it shows that the only (limited) CD writing experience I had
was in M$Windoze at work (with Nero & Roxio)?

> Basically what would need to happen in the real (Linux) world, without
> packet writing, is that a CD burning program would have to create a temp
> ISO of the files on the CDRW (which afaik it would have to be) without
> the folder that you intended to delete, erase the current contents of
> the CDRW and then rewrite the CDRW with the new ISO (which would
> essentially delete the folder). But I could be wrong, as I don't use -RW
> media anymore (and this is one of the reasons why).

I can't remember if I have enabled packer writing in that machine.  When I
get access to it I'll check it out.  Thanks for your help!  :-)

-- 
Regards,
Mick

-- 
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[gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights

[Mick]

Neil Bothwick wrote:

> 
> user or users. The difference is that with user, only the user that
> mounted a filesystem, or root, can umount it. With users, user A can
> mount a filesystem and user B can umount it.

What a right 'carry on' this access issue is.  I eventually got on the
machine in question.  Two NTFS partitions.  When I add
noauto,ro,user,uid=1001 the user in question can mount and read the various
files.  The respective mount point under /mnt/Suzy_WinXP is shown as
suzy:root.

As soon as I remove the uid number from fstab the user can no longer access
the files!  Konqueror comes up with this error: "Unable to enter
file:///mnt/Suzy_WinXP.  You do not have access rights to this location." 
The /mnt/Suzy_WinXP is now shown as root:root and Konqueror shows "Locked
Folder".  The funny thing is that the NTFS partition *is* mounted as shown
in mount:
===================
/dev/sda14 on /mnt/Suzy_WinXP type ntfs (ro,noexec,nosuid,nodev)
===================

So, if I want to mount NTFS partitions by different users what am I supposed
to do?  Pile up the uid Nos?  There must be a better way.  Unlike VFAT
partitions which do not recognise/require ownership NTFS does not seem to
want to play.  Are your experiences different?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

-- 
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights

[Peter Ruskin]

On Wednesday 04 January 2006 22:01, Mick wrote:
> When I add
> noauto,ro,user,uid=1001 the user in question can mount and read
> the various files.  The respective mount point under
> /mnt/Suzy_WinXP is shown as suzy:root.
>
> As soon as I remove the uid number from fstab the user can no
> longer access the files!  Konqueror comes up with this error:
> "Unable to enter file:///mnt/Suzy_WinXP.  You do not have access
> rights to this location." The /mnt/Suzy_WinXP is now shown as
> root:root and Konqueror shows "Locked Folder".  The funny thing
> is that the NTFS partition *is* mounted as shown in mount:
> ===================
> /dev/sda14 on /mnt/Suzy_WinXP type ntfs (ro,noexec,nosuid,nodev)
> ===================
>
> So, if I want to mount NTFS partitions by different users what am
> I supposed to do?  Pile up the uid Nos?  There must be a better
> way.  Unlike VFAT partitions which do not recognise/require
> ownership NTFS does not seem to want to play.

I don't see your problem.  This is how my fstab shows ntfs:

/dev/hdf9 /mnt/win/o ntfs rw,umask=0,posix=1,users,nls=utf8 0 0

-- 
Peter
========================================================================
Gentoo Linux: Portage 2.0.51.22-r3.	kernel-2.6.14-gentoo-r6.
i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 3200+.		gcc(GCC): 3.4.5.
KDE: 3.5.0.				Qt: 3.3.4.
========================================================================
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:01:51 +0000, Mick wrote:

> So, if I want to mount NTFS partitions by different users what am I
> supposed to do?  Pile up the uid Nos?  There must be a better way. 

There is, set a suitable umask value. By default, NTFS partitions are
mounted readable only by the user that mounted them. Setting umask=222
makes them readable by everyone, but still writable by no-one (although
NTFS is usually mounted ro so this makes little difference). See the NTFS
section of man mount.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Happiness is merely the remission of pain.

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RE: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights

[Michael Kintzios]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Ruskin [mailto:Peter.Ruskin@dsl.pipex.com] 
> Sent: 04 January 2006 22:49
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see your problem.  This is how my fstab shows ntfs:
> 
> /dev/hdf9 /mnt/win/o ntfs rw,umask=0,posix=1,users,nls=utf8 0 0

I'm lost!  What does posix=1 mean?

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights

[Stroller]

On 5 Jan 2006, at 12:43, Michael Kintzios wrote:
>>
>> I don't see your problem.  This is how my fstab shows ntfs:
>>
>> /dev/hdf9 /mnt/win/o ntfs rw,umask=0,posix=1,users,nls=utf8 0 0
>
> I'm lost!  What does posix=1 mean?

 From `man mount`:

    Mount options for ntfs
    ...    posix=[0|1]
               If  enabled  (posix=1),  the  file  system  
distinguishes between
               upper and lower case. The 8.3 alias names are  
presented as  hard
               links instead of being suppressed.

Stroller
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RE: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights

[Michael Kintzios]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stroller [mailto:stroller@stellar.eclipse.co.uk] 
> Sent: 05 January 2006 13:32
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights
> 
> 
> 
> On 5 Jan 2006, at 12:43, Michael Kintzios wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't see your problem.  This is how my fstab shows ntfs:
> >>
> >> /dev/hdf9 /mnt/win/o ntfs rw,umask=0,posix=1,users,nls=utf8 0 0
> >
> > I'm lost!  What does posix=1 mean?
> 
>  From `man mount`:
> 
>     Mount options for ntfs
>     ...    posix=[0|1]
>                If  enabled  (posix=1),  the  file  system  
> distinguishes between
>                upper and lower case. The 8.3 alias names are  
> presented as  hard
>                links instead of being suppressed.

Thanks!  I've got a looot of reading to do . . . (although it's more
interesting to talk it over?)

So if a suitable umask sorts out the mounting of ntfs partitions, what's
the recommended umask and fstab entries for a dvdrw,cdrw and
dvdrom,cdrom?

I note that Peter R has rw on this ntfs - is this needed for captive to
work or what's the trick here?
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:10:40 -0000, Michael Kintzios wrote:

> So if a suitable umask sorts out the mounting of ntfs partitions, what's
> the recommended umask and fstab entries for a dvdrw,cdrw and
> dvdrom,cdrom?

You really need to read the mount man page. umask is only for certain
filesystems, it is not used with ISO9660.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Top Oxymorons Number 2: Exact estimate

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RE: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights

[Michael Kintzios]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil Bothwick [mailto:neil@digimed.co.uk] 
> Sent: 05 January 2006 00:55
> To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: k3b and now NTFS access rights
> 
> There is, set a suitable umask value. By default, NTFS partitions are
> mounted readable only by the user that mounted them. Setting umask=222
> makes them readable by everyone, but still writable by no-one 
> (although
> NTFS is usually mounted ro so this makes little difference). 
> See the NTFS
> section of man mount.

Thanks! I've read the manual and then tried different umask options.
Umask=222 seems the most reasonable for what I need.  I noticed that the
different subdirectories and files automatically inherit the allocated
NTFS partition access rights.  Is this how umask in fstab works
(recursively)?

On a hypothetical case where you want to give different access rights to
all/some subdorectories & files, do you have to set these individually
the first time after mounting the partition, use ACL's, or what else?

Sorry if my questions appear silly - I've always been confused by this
topic and its different permutations.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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