From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73E2C139083 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 12:09:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 58EFAE102F; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 12:09:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9938E0FF6 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 12:09:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id y82so9811219wmg.1 for ; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 04:09:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/AansjAs8K0maSX/57kNoTe86LNFAx8Va/uKEjP3D4A=; b=BAIfDgGQHKYAvulq/unDf2p302aC5dFlAP5JJDgMt8hdAad+deSbYVaw62H892N9BT nViyRFY4CJLWpni8nTZTAA2rO/6zxB9rRIC/Y2pn//8+PIFiozWX8e69lJ9bfETZIVlU MXsaKzfNZxsRzhxw2nCNPzEpOPO0CN5A+EgMlN/q95iOjXT9gDYxi/o403E+zZJs/Aan M6cGDo7RP6sgaLv+pW9kcDoBytoXQwKTqfQQFDeIkHytFshpQl9bQkFPpNdz6DUJMXsU PhKaJn99b+Lh5m1is2LcxW/wNkOx1ZYu3UF53aHIdoE9seJmo4m5ukXs7JMmgW5xc7JS QzWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/AansjAs8K0maSX/57kNoTe86LNFAx8Va/uKEjP3D4A=; b=Z9JMHggYPUYliKlWyrMjJl/m0+1Qtfj71i1XGh0WiOhUmvlCmURrLdBOxTePReu6km /MxSQMEPyFoGPx7pIG80B2usYS4HlfFFhST1dcCEWc+YgbOYnFb5NTVhnJOdG5Mr0L17 wHdf2rdwvIxHkP8X6CS4YA+8GZ6Tgxhpl17DR24+/mTZEXHC+RwWR8ScTHFU8x6PXig8 rWz9ofJt1MFgXKQcfHSvPPH/ukTdhbipOX477QfI0M87ovcQ81/tGihc3bTHg/bd9xz3 leeCFljU2NSY/oWezyGvNtcDp6gSfvH3zKqljmaLfu6N1Z6VteYioEQHLvK/VXSyDwMx fpjQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mI+w8ZpUuJ+gFq/eKXrClY6QdD7IpGzejFjwUpy+OWCrnLRc4/v rf0go5cpBG47/ebxe+8/OEBlhMhx X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbodK37nIQ1wLa/Vtspup1A0Vm2L4fxhQcwlvlJ0nOH748AR056j/f3S16Uj9ZKBO+xP+3/qA== X-Received: by 10.28.71.5 with SMTP id u5mr7967583wma.84.1512907745368; Sun, 10 Dec 2017 04:09:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.0.40] ([197.101.48.133]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id o48sm13799842wrf.85.2017.12.10.04.09.03 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 Dec 2017 04:09:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is gnome becoming obligatory? To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <6582741.F9gJHCEsXr@dell_xps> <2343494.DDJaQvByiF@dell_xps> <2092160.laqpQd9B04@peak> <1512906942.3369.15.camel@gentoo.org> From: Alan McKinnon Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2017 14:03:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1512906942.3369.15.camel@gentoo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: cef30a75-b288-407e-a41d-2c6a25b90931 X-Archives-Hash: 58737d02a12566db0e8078eb0cb4b772 On 10/12/2017 13:55, Mart Raudsepp wrote: > On P, 2017-12-10 at 08:56 +0000, Jorge Almeida wrote: >> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 6:12 AM, R0b0t1 wrote: >>> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 5:36 PM, Peter Humphrey >> uk> wrote: >>>> On Saturday, 9 December 2017 12:00:12 GMT Jorge Almeida wrote: >>>>> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Mick >>>> m> wrote: >>>>>> Thank you all for detailed and clear replies.  You'd forgive >>>>>> me for >>>>>> being (a little) paranoid about Poettering's fingers getting >>>>>> anywhere >>>>>> near my systems.> >>>>>> :-p >>>>> >>>>> Are you sure you need udisks? And policykit? >>>> >>>> I'm pretty sure Mick runs KDE, which requires both of those. >>>> >>> >>> Eventually emerging @world will just pull in the entirety of the >>> Gentoo package repository, and we won't have to worry about what is >>> or >>> isn't necessary. >>> >> Not that I would object much to have gnome-common if I needed it (I >> don't), but it is a bit >> shocking that installing kde stuff pulls gnome stuff. After all, >> they're supposed to be alternative worldviews, er, desktop >> environments. Maybe the relevant people should stop and think whether >> unbridled complexity is a good idea? > > So you are suggesting that each desktop environment must NIH > everything? > > Want an auto-mounter and disk monitor and more for a modern desktop > experience - reimplement udisks. > Want a secure permissions handling framework for the desktop - > reimplement polkit. > Want a user account service handler for desktop logins - reimplement > accountsservice. > Want color profiles handling for monitors and co, and other associated > stuff - reimplement colord. > And so on. > > That's all "GNOME stuff" by your definition, with GNOME Foundation > members being the project leaders or starters. > > Meanwhile gnome-common is just a package for m4 macros for the older > autotools using world, and is deprecated in favor of autoconf-archive, > which had the good things of gnome-common integrated into it. Please > remove that package too, if you want to NIH. > > > People, this is open source. Stop advocating NIH and make use of the > benefits of open source and let the people actually doing stuff > collaborate on things and re-use/share projects as they see fit, for > less time waste and more making GNU/Linux (desktops) great over the > proprietary others. > > Let's say we renamed the package: s/gnome-common/useful-build-stuffs/g No other change, just a package rename. And suddenly this entire thread never ever happens at all. People, you all need to step back, sleep on it, and knock off the knee-jerking. It is 4 useful m4 files, utterly dwarfed by any package you can mention that installs even a single man page. -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com