From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22542139083 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:27:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7FD81E0FDD; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:27:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtprelay04.ispgateway.de (smtprelay04.ispgateway.de [80.67.31.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 164CDE0EF4 for ; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 13:27:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [217.250.138.166] (helo=razor.aldox.org) by smtprelay04.ispgateway.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eOO7M-0002UY-KJ for gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org; Mon, 11 Dec 2017 14:27:36 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=openqmail.org; s=default; l=3796; x=1513603649; i=kp@lists.openqmail.org; h=Received:Received:MIME-Version: Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Date:From:To:Subject: In-Reply-To:References:Message-ID:User-Agent; bh=hsa4qjSvwMg5gKm /8+IINCqpsrm51JVMiWrob6ANtpM=; b=ee2mGq+7O3ZzkQB27hBe5GpZMtXKALh jN87zpTET92SeEMd6aIPAjuXS7HRkPpuo8xgB1S+Y7KVAEmoVX/5CaD5UvirpEPL jnZwWBAjzAGKwPr0OT85bJWA3EXZWVoJ0UTEvZGjFgwsGPBDYIDmcmA5fe+tXw2u di0JasXciPHw= Received: (qmail 7804 invoked from network); 11 Dec 2017 14:27:29 +0100 Received: from xaero.aldox.org (HELO webmail.de.dyndn.es) (192.168.7.249) by smtp.aldox.org with SMTP; 11 Dec 2017 14:27:29 +0100 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 14:27:29 +0100 From: Kai Peter To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is gnome becoming obligatory? In-Reply-To: <8576608.fTLhnHjezo@dell_xps> References: <6582741.F9gJHCEsXr@dell_xps> <8576608.fTLhnHjezo@dell_xps> Message-ID: X-Sender: kp@lists.openqmail.org User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.2 X-Df-Sender: c210cDFAYWxkb3guZGU= X-Archives-Salt: 620fe86d-95ff-4cd6-ba0f-3921e9402360 X-Archives-Hash: 67e04f46f078e5502949048557409a1d On 2017-12-11 13:39, Mick wrote: > On Monday, 11 December 2017 11:59:03 GMT Jorge Almeida wrote: >> On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Canek Pel=C3=A1ez Vald=C3=A9s=20 >> > wrote: >=20 >> > Just my two cents. I will not answer any reply to my little contributi= on >> > to >> > this thread; >>=20 >> Good. I can't remember any intervention from you that I would miss. Of >> course, I wouldn't dream of telling people how they should think, nor >> would I deny anyone the right to be an activist. >>=20 >> > Enjoy your echo chamber. >>=20 >> Thank you for your contribution, Dr. Yes, we know you're a Dr. We know >> it because: >=20 > Crikey! I didn't expect my question to trigger yet another thread of=20 > 'systemd > Vs freedom of choice (non-systemd)' arguments. Dr. Canek has been an=20 > advocate This is the nature of a mailing list ... ;-) > of systemd for years now and has posted his views on this topic more=20 > than > once. He has tried hard to make gentoo users see the light in the=20 > superiority > of systemd and put his arguments across. He has also done a lot of > development work to establish systemd in Gentoo. His views are=20 > somewhat > parochial - only those who (can) code have an influence if not a right=20 > to > determine the direction of travel - I paraphrase of course. There is=20 > truth in > this and anyone can recognise that money can buy developer hours and=20 > direct > their development effort. >=20 > The facts remain that RHL and their employees have shaped the Linux=20 > eco-system > to suit their business interests; spinning predictably and reliably=20 > thousands > of identical VMs in data centres. The MSWindows monolithic stack=20 > architecture > is something they wanted/needed and this is what they developed. >=20 > The fact also remains that binary distros and other development=20 > projects > decided to gravitate towards major development areas (cloud and=20 > embedded > computing) where commercial interest and development demand has been=20 > greater. > Lack of devs and maintainers especially for smaller distros means they=20 > decided > to ride on the back of systemd and minimise their own development load.= =20 > Linux IMHO there isn't a lack of devs and/or maintainers. To me the issue is=20 that they doesn't work as good together as they should. To less=20 compromises. To many forks. Thus, unfortunately, leads into more market=20 fragmentation. It is good to have a choice, but it is not good to have a=20 lot - to many - choices. And this is not limited to init systems. > exists on the desktop too, but this represents a really small=20 > percentage of PC > users. Linux desktop users on Gentoo systems is an even smaller number= =20 > and I > am guessing of an increasingly advanced age demographic. >=20 > I am grateful that Gentoo has retained openrc and provides a choice for= =20 > those > of us who would prefer to not use systemd. I use systemd on a couple=20 > of > systems out of necessity/convenience, but I would not like it on my PC > systems. If I wanted this opaque Just Works=E2=84=A2 philosophy I would = have=20 > stayed > with MSWindows or AppleMac, both of which I have used for years and=20 > frustrated > me to hell - well MSWindows definitely does. However, for the majority= =20 > of the > population these OS remain the best suited choice. So, I think we=20 > should live > & let live, but as gentoo users at least try to influence gentoo to=20 > retain a > freedom of choice most binary distros have walked away from. >=20 > Just my 2c's. +1 in general ;-), even if I'm pretty sure some people will interpret=20 something different. --=20 Sent with eQmail-1.10