From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F8181382C5 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 16:37:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 10874E0823; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 16:37:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot1-x330.google.com (mail-ot1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD75DE0809 for ; Tue, 1 Jun 2021 16:37:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot1-x330.google.com with SMTP id d25-20020a0568300459b02902f886f7dd43so14667491otc.6 for ; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 09:37:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=B7NuQYmd/AC80XGqTGtNFQn3LLvOhpZLAK4OetdeI50=; b=JZZAea6gQlU8tSVnMDX8BPL/qATA3TOt4jbAVURolX93Xb4HY9Nc8XGN1D01e9susL uaMdTpHwgByhTFXHnhWlfcL6d3IfLx/oaHYudiWkaaBewIb4jjWHjfdXQCJNfZW0Uh4k Mw3ysIMy4Xe576qy8NNplZWGwKfo0izZmE32sabjASpEa3jzjeWsKejf1nq/y5tFLnO7 zTjboDtTuSx0pZfrnbvQxdysyLIxjQe9ME/4g4QiK6IimD1RPkCUvFX35RIOaVPRbT/M m6VxiOAKAmUegm+oR/vmmAytibH/w7y8shHiGANd9a2eAPf/exJNfXYeL5KEwTCTvn2k J8Zg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=B7NuQYmd/AC80XGqTGtNFQn3LLvOhpZLAK4OetdeI50=; b=mzHjiuhvOOAs0KJAwZaKXlYFWa/MsptUWn8DHnUFU0SHk3Hn8Nm9FxbqvhyfgYzegP zqQt5wV5WlAhXEWXQvZev9FEwYy8dDDMk86tkGX3lDPqW6ZuiYjoP8MnxUBCjp9H0S0b Hd/UXu2ndcjAC2yxT0ByZSaKyvXap1+Ftl5ot3Jmk7VwaHoehQ5smri/TGOPwZIcylCh 4QTBCx1znNlHT93Hh0XyN/xvXirRt2Q2vkb1n2oWprWRal7xSw7eLEaCKfzHIkMdPd6U ZxRdSqm2E61M8xdAHifK2j0dVI2Xm0GfO1HmHcHrn59PZj9ABbA9m/DC17XDFtoYcXTM rLEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531B7zDWp/AHElxPcBDC3vZhub5qDanrS0+bF1mqv0m7PlFNzqWs jREd2GbrCf55hF30HiUWC5LkgyUZ9To= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx8wC4QDIuiJ+RwEuv/Y2rQJ5h9qZ3V/RTeHZ9ztYp3J1g8516A1tb+IFRKv70R0kYfnkWFOg== X-Received: by 2002:a9d:5a12:: with SMTP id v18mr21620374oth.306.1622565473699; Tue, 01 Jun 2021 09:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.100] (adsl-074-188-244-253.sip.asm.bellsouth.net. [74.188.244.253]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 53sm1753675otu.21.2021.06.01.09.37.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 01 Jun 2021 09:37:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] it keeps growing To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <6c7c84bb-c39b-3cbc-f23e-4107a3d16e8c@web.de> <587C40D7-691D-4735-A4AF-0713CC87A27A@linuxkompis.se> <4d1c7ac1-e099-306a-9124-610a1fb66b2a@gmail.com> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFxc7MgBEAC+zrgEdqJJiDe/UDAB+ScmferXWfJTVjbVT2T4DQ7jiLrgP9aNUo1HioNF mrU3JPOCR32gvZyTbY1+niO5+VSo/+pSqQ785h6ZDj1klMkrg6tEzGnf2MNBpBj4houZwxQ+ WDKKTg2M9F+lv8wTIdR/JQn+hSviktLMtrghQlyLhpapsLXWLA6gMFebpQYwxUwemvan8ddX lQvJe9FGyFYvBi0dp1gl10F2O+DVZJxvX8xkX+yImVlhVJiC31gXHRcj+Qlo7gprlU7TIieF Uow6/ZvYKJ26pztVdFCg5w0rMJkF/x8Zd4A6wnuptiAPmWaQ1+YKgYDonbDUgwqFSx5/lN5z DGZ4LlioxeUTTPVvZsqBIeDz6jNFA583OYbo1/S26dqrvTFf2DKlsvoDpVfAhNlwJPjoixs0 X3FNqPv+M10n4kq5Iz7Q9E3O4s/nfFIYGocEslVka7zZPkXSaHbsn+KJlY8XV6qxtCEdh0/V XX1+1aU2J74M0JikWhpwxTZ1dP5aOyWSPPEgFFIRW6xwwC02SoRH9a7mggfGYp/YjPlONNaT SCL8sgRfvmq3D0XTbLyTjSbExxkfKDmbePQagawDE3TlI/oivHf1JaAcbwMb3LZuU4TGcOIl 5D+x7q0MUIeCop0ZFOwAnqW3AVVNvsBkv2KN+IHJryWAf0/iMQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgWIQTZ7suruPBaS60bCYXvEM/XWu+ZnAUCXFzs yAIbIwULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRDvEM/XWu+ZnN+7D/4/1dNG4aCz0+v+ 0dcjV5tY1feYEWCdHKyDzxWBxlCpd/0NPRQeNY4VMjbCl/sq7GkXi/c2SbfWDQ5BQRkkExG1 pSwuXSIehGok/4fpTi3HDAguRvzdCqlKPt7me05FyiC/WnpY5GOlJ3ruGw2qABv/RmV2q5b/ tkq7h1y1f16DTNr3/nsj8HzHcrHdXdL4kaYChSOe/dbQR9Stqak7eMyR+iwvrJMNF/CGl70P 2x5ybsXMDzRVOqNcpa5ZdhEMTVh6+vC1SOmm1BFMF8XCqBEvBbcHWDQmGYTdNCsS/ADm8CBl gvjJgLdIsAzoMu4WHQDFnzXAoArqFWgAf53isOS4AWrv29tF9b8Aa1vb7h5JEa+ArcMsA6Gl X38+GY6WXXaxKI9n3PTCWu9tPGnRh7mABjnwEosDDqmzw8aTAYECb3avDuGY2rmcjgh4H6RE w08d63j1T4d5J9wlm4TGtW/VHgbUFkATEdH3Acl/EjFiyqTiX7p8kU6Reu5enIkogA93xoQh Rmy7ZiST/5LN+ZkaOdyjIw0L+5KalslN9SKt809YxgJ6kPo657LNTFPiFvFA46/SEWcBYrzq Xk0wEW0gBRWf+BqN0qRhU0/EQ+QfRdLLFg2xtUePwlheYLXxfyDLrdCCOLWYpkzbjCZHLS4u 69smbvR9S9KBDNzJybxEWrkCDQRcXOzIARAA5IGRWTqaM44IJgBYghZg2fGj0Am7KWPhE7V7 T/EEe7vVSUEFqHtlHzI4ZK6Q0AZ9uAEjE8IJIQ7KoTjzNqAtabP0vp3s0szgtJlsZ+8vGKlQ my7fvzSrdoQL0Xn7CEwJYFXJ1EMUcYIQeoHG1cUAaXx73k9BFbjwjnUeMrqlV/ZovQlg7duW nESfQ7HZu5NrtYyY3jPMUouxiO9WQPh+IHxZbt1absF2VcvRAymD32RxGvMPbw6ChMRD/p9O 4PH7M5rXaxr78NXQX9E48vrI00f1cYb9NSN1HnSV8cW3jKObVjdBk6jPQwrMvdpgdQhUB9aZ HS/9mC9mmAgiXKyCpzXe7FPB6QznSfn4GIaC/luy1e6SLUkJhRK/niB+gq+Mfxg2zXNuDUTI cMGmpDCp3kgUoorkaltk8RW09io95BkXrGhcDNuSGZfAParBc7RXyYpbIcax8St7tEAd2oFh 4seYOPUlzuhGrPpqR/91wrFc4E1260GKauSr4UhMJv6tygBwyC0mmBMKi+ZXw6ZdZxA5fg7y 35P3TILjznCXXTDgRHq9A3NknKRMcgFacX6eIhANkMFo6oJVjuEgy1dvu1wFfDq7c+i8GAHu L4pYzyXYu6PporlNNU0xSwdVgzM/uuK0lt+UxCimgC+YR3IezgDcbfudb7h9dGIwL+bbPL0A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIBYhBNnuy6u48FpLrRsJhe8Qz9da75mcBQJcXOzIAhsMAAoJEO8Qz9da 75mcXZ4P/1YXgWDZek7mhzrf6uaQzMxa92P89HeWz4PlgB/32symeEFAV04WazzBZffI8AYY rGA1Xmu/2VaB9+FOODyKhUWBc2UL0NRWBk6POwboyTdKlclmpixaN9zLcBt0YLejoRfN1B/5 aQf9/lUDZMnAiCyz0FgeqEMUshldmwWC35RqnjrCbbuk2vIqSH6BLDIXU6jQrLHE1DF0ai41 wLtQFAFXPhn45n0ZwYhVs4Z32z4sjXrIvgBgCaXa4HM+L1Klne0KiNM8ReFTTpTE0SgyDOSZ O3MOa2n77i6JbVtsbiFYnNeP3J9S/l3jevGpZEtNQOKrIm1MW8jGuHWtsDeMkT/mCcSodlkt PxIo+mMK9GpGvG2hW80LiohqNfUbNwAmr3blOYY4URPXPRnEnPs4pmTmL5owjw2dkg145i9I D42Tq+XZ6YtWt3SGzGbAYow6XwTwZ5NFAzV9UQuCGrDw4KWan6O6Z+VIYWsn0UMZlu1Obxna aocofkaUCbISK26kImuD1aA8juSHC18Qv1xUage6/UakbSxyDtACqt6hOVFKX3IA59ApdNRT +2x3iCmlvF9MJsGgFq6IpqL+Fk7iWV8Kjbz0wQOId6N9+JdQh3LrLaS7a1PowUm1z9DK5/O0 Yg+gpDnEOOFI7WM5u7a7FSM2Z/LXGVwel/0eWvLk9tN6 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 11:37:50 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.7.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 0e7dbfa5-f3ae-4e53-b36f-2d21f82513a1 X-Archives-Hash: 912a5a9a5bf8d943b5ae0ad9fbda1bf5 Mark Knecht wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 7:14 AM Dale > wrote: > > > > Hund wrote: > > > On June 1, 2021 3:38:30 PM GMT+02:00, n952162 > wrote: > > >> 337 packages this month to be updated.  It keeps getting more and > more. > > >> Pretty soon, gentoo will overtake Bitcoin in energy use. > > >> > > >> > > > One might then ask why you have so many packages? And why you have > a computer that consumes enough power for you to be worried about it? > > > > > > -- > > > Hund > > > > > > > > > > > > I was thinking along the lines of how many packages even binary distros > > have to update.  I've installed binary based distros before and when > > updating those, there can be hundreds, several hundred, packages to > > upgrade.  Thing is, those same packages exist in Gentoo.  If one has a > > very similar set of packages installed, odds are, almost the same > > packages will update in either a source based distro like Gentoo or in a > > binary based distro.  The only difference is Gentoo compiles from > source. > > > > If one is really concerned about compile times or the amount of power > > needed to run Gentoo up to date, then one has to question not the > > updates but why use Gentoo??  While some large packages are available in > > binary, Firefox, Libreoffice etc, the vast majority of Gentoo is > > compiled from source.  It's why most people use Gentoo, compile from > > source with features set like you want.  If one is limited in hardware > > or power, Gentoo may not be a good option. > > > > Makes one think. > > > > Dale > > > > :-)  :-) > > I totally get why the Linux enthusiast or an IT guy tasked with > specific requirements runs Gentoo. I did from 2001 through maybe early > 2018. > > There are numerous reasons I moved from Gentoo to Kubuntu 3-4 years ago: > > - Kubuntu updates take, in general, less than 1 minute, almost never > more than 5, with an average of 2-3/week. I don't believe I spend more > than 10 minutes on average any week maintaining my machines. Most > important to me is in 3-4 years not a single one has failed. Download > a little binary, install, done. Distribution updates (major rev -> > major rev) take less than an hour and this is once a year or two. They > are so infrequent that I typically forget how to do them and have to > go read instructions. > > - Maintaining a simple Gentoo install with no desktop from source > wasn't bad but the KDE overhead on older laptops was insane for my needs. > > - I personally could not perceive any speed advantages in my daily > life running Gentoo. I'm sure there would be some if I was into > benchmarking but I'm not. > > - Gentoo lost its way (IN MY OPINION ONLY, and maybe it's better now) > 4-5 years ago in terms of a simple 'stable' release. There was a time > when I couldn't update without ~amd64-ing some packages. > > - I use two paid-for non-open source applications - Harrison Mixbus > (based on Ardour) and PixInsight. It's WAY easier to get support when > running the same distro these vendor runs and it's been a BIG help in > my life to get that support. > >    Sadly, I don't have nearly the knowledge of how things work under > the hood on Kubuntu and the user level community is very quiet so I > try to make general contributions here just to stay connected. This is > still the best user group I know of. Friendly, informative experts. > > Just my 1.5 cents worth as I listen to Hunky Dory, > Mark On the few binary distros I've dealt with, they update about as much as Gentoo does.  The ones that don't, tend to run behind.  I installed one for a temporary test and the packages on it was several versions behind even stable Gentoo.  It was far behind unstable on Gentoo.  If one wants smaller updates or is concerned about power usage during updates, Gentoo is likely not a good choice.  Compiling takes time and uses power.  It's just the way Gentoo works. It's always been that way and as long as it is a source based distro, it will remain that way.  Gentoo isn't the right choice for every application.  Just my 2 cents. Dale :-)  :-)