From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61A86139085 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2016 21:48:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 710BD2345B4; Mon, 26 Dec 2016 21:46:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wj0-x241.google.com (mail-wj0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c01::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFA61E0C0E for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2016 21:46:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wj0-x241.google.com with SMTP id kp2so49571224wjc.0 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2016 13:46:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=avxoL0pALLfLNY257VaXpsMKPfS7Mf8GMPJhH8BIEvg=; b=Q5ipsLin/KxNEVH26qA3rF1PlrAdmR6JeQEG5JbUwbAmfWkJ45Xiygp/1mRjC+sdV7 vVir10vkEGkM5clqhltQ5UAM8JtzhTiQUENCN3qqKvOu+hv4IJET9kSC13tEJYvJCS8I RFxynEV4259/u8T9y0GHhNYKuUwmNEiCyPRCWoRbp/dXljSF6v35M4w7gr/MG3fNYPg6 zlrZiI6FJuCLnexYidwPv4UYJbxzOi072MppA3IRF7KTF7FeWPGwc7Z2Ct3KkdyNqdJ8 66hRg75Wq+RbYL2gGd4sv/+N9IeEM313Fkjqd1WCXUPxSqXZC/m0RlYiNO0MWOx/cyx6 rHmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=avxoL0pALLfLNY257VaXpsMKPfS7Mf8GMPJhH8BIEvg=; b=tAZs8XgRqE3xgMYyBg2jlHc6obSPjQvvBfq8C55N2OXiDq1+riacfhmuX9s8Gn/8eC fV7my206VqW0srsaqNmLOft2ILCdtDuO771OM0goGrcHgGCSzqgxkQ78dAMUjZMYx1tB E0HTAjju3Fwe5EVqCE3q92REsXILFD9GCn7NZHcBA4g7fZ94xahKehfC8useo6fRJHoO HIpAzUCyyEOS9MaUQEdE1rLgzFxzG7yRDOWnjOBHA/q7h3woqKUEAcGJ0yfYosGSrhDV 33GKNgfWyJsQY7CTsTazDQymQkYlkJN5dhLfATtGJCzNlgmoTNXO8UavnOUEGqVytqv9 mNNA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXInTnu0YY7uXS+S/DiSdtu+UO4mTTsXvhOYYPijyoMHo3PCVV5Gr9FoQTRZGZZqOA== X-Received: by 10.194.80.42 with SMTP id o10mr30371377wjx.65.1482788790518; Mon, 26 Dec 2016 13:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.0.40] ([196.212.62.210]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 197sm53050643wmy.16.2016.12.26.13.46.28 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 26 Dec 2016 13:46:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <20161015182743.GB4541@solfire> <20161216101951.GA29887@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161216131315.GA4052@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161216165118.GA26704@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161217055520.GA13608@waltdnes.org> <87pokn23ai.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> <4c7138ac-cbd2-c60f-2a86-bb7e41e9d6fb@gmail.com> <877f6qoz9t.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> <87fulak06w.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> From: Alan McKinnon Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2016 23:44:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87fulak06w.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: a45367ed-6566-470b-85b1-0649ce8d11e8 X-Archives-Hash: f66825b9e69f747eb718271263210b51 On 26/12/2016 20:35, lee wrote: > Tom H writes: > >> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 9:07 PM, lee wrote: >>> Tom H writes: >>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Daniel Frey wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It is even more frustrating that these so-called predictable network >>>>> names actually can change on a reboot, it's happened to me more than >>>>> once when multiple network cards are detected in a different order. >>>> >>>> >From Kay Sievers in [1]: >>>> >>>> >>>> Btw, predictable means it will not change between reboots, that names >>>> will not depend on enumeration order within the same setup. It does >>>> not mean or promise, that added kernel/driver/firmware features will >>>> not result in different names. That is expected behavior. >>>> >>>> >>>> [1] https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-October/034614.html >>> >>> So the names will not change when rebooting and are to be expected to >>> possibly change at any time. >>> >>> How is that more reliable? >> >> It's more reliable than using the kernel's names because the names >> won't change UNLESS there's kernel/driver/firmware change for that >> NIC. I doubt that these changes occur that often. Perhaps someone else >> knows. > > What happens more often: That a network card is replaced with a > different one or that the software changes? > OK, let me try explain this again. NIC names are tricky, several posters (myself included) have laid out various methods and options by which it can be done. Experience shows that in real life the simple traditional names are easy to remember but prone to changing and (worse) prone to race conditions. Other methods change less often in reality but the names are somewhat trickier to remember. Opinions on these things differ; experience on these things differ and people's use cases on these things differ greatly. A coder working in this area has to decide what sort of cases they want to support, what problems they want to attempt to solve and what new features they want to introduce; then they have to write the code. Once the code is written, the coder then has to decide what nomenclature to use when describing the software and the effects it has. In this case centered around systemd a word was chosen: "reliable". Some will think it's a good name, some don't care, some will think it's a bad name; and all of those things are basically irrelevant because the name doesn't tell you much abut what the software will do. Reading the fine manual will tell you that. It's all a part of being human because our languages are imprecise, heavily overloaded and hugely redundant. So are our spellings. But we are stuck with it because that's the general emergent behaviour of a homo sapiens brain. Arguing abut this is about as nonsensical as arguing about whether "lee" is a good handle on a forum or not. To a pedant it's a bad name, one can't tell if you are male, female or if it's actually an Asian family name.... Or one could do what most folk do, and not see a problem with 3 letters -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com