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Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
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Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 12:10 PM Wol <antlists@youngman.org.uk
> <mailto:antlists@youngman.org.uk>> wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > Do you want the system layered, with each layer doing one job? Use
> > dm-integrity to protect against corruption, raid to join the disks, lvm
> > to partition them, and ext to manage the directories and files.
> >
> > I do the latter ...
>
> No argument there, at least on a group of drives where you
> want to have flexibility in the future. Desktop computers or
> system drives certainly. You didn't tell me what replaces
> the compression aspect of the problem but I'm sure there's
> something. It's a great strategy if you have the expertise and
> time to set it up and then manage it when a problem arises,
> if it ever arises.
>
> I'm just asking what's the purpose of doing LVM, or your
> suggested layering, specifically on a storage pool for a
> home user like Dale? That's the part I don't understand,
> especially for a new NAS user like Dale?
>
> Mark
>
>
>
My reasoning is simple, I'm already familiar with LVM and how to manage
it. While I swap drives on my Gentoo rig pretty regular lately, I don't
want to be limited from doing that on a NAS either. If for example I
want to replace a 10TB drive with a 16TB drive, LVM makes that easy and
I know how to do it already. With ZFS tho, is that even doable and if
it is, do I want to learn to do it with a new tool? From what I've
seen, I'm not even sure you can do that. It seems you can expand by
adding a drive but not replace or shrink.
As a example. I went back to a basic pool of two drives. I then
recreated a dataset, or whatever it is called, and added for it to be
encrypted. Since I did that, I get write errors. I can mount it just
fine but that's it. I have no idea what the cause is, google isn't
helping and to be honest, I'm thinking about target practice for the
thing. It took me a good long while to set up the most basic thing.
Adding encryption shouldn't be hard but apparently, it is more difficult
than I thought. That or its so secure even I can't use it even with the
password. lol
This is what I like about LVM and cryptsetup. I create a partition, or
use a whole drive, as needed. I use cryptsetup to start the process
with one drive. I then put ext4 on top of that. Then I add a second
drive to that pv, add that to the volume group, extend the file system,
all done. And it is encrypted as well. If I need to move from one
drive to say a larger drive, no problem. Add drive, move data, remove
old drive, extend file system if needed, all done. I have notes but
I've done it a lot recently and have the general idea still glued to the
back of my head. ;-) Thing is, ZFS isn't making sense to me so I'm
clueless where to start when something goes wrong or even getting it to
work period. I may try watching a video on ZFS and see if that helps.
Maybe it will, maybe I'll still prefer LVM. After all, I'm a old dog.
New tricks ain't easy. ROFL
If I bought a pre-made NAS, I'd just have to deal with it. I'd keep
hammering until I got it to where I could backup my data. If I build a
Raspberry thing, NAS software may not be my first choice. Maybe, just
maybe, my light bulb will pop on and I can make sense of TrueNAS and
ZFS. If so, fine. Right now, it's a lot of work with really no gain.
I'm not able to backup my data yet. It's a brick, time consuming and
confusing brick at that.
After supper, I'm rebooting and see if I can beat some sense into
again. Seriously considering using dd and starting over from scratch.
I can't figure out how to do that with the GUI thing. No delete button,
that I can find anyway.
Dale
:-) :-)
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Mark Knecht wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK2H+efdzK2sEn5xz-oXtp52d2tzjHwY-ieyrFhmq40hh1yawg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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<div dir="ltr"><br>
<br>
On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 12:10 PM Wol <<a
href="mailto:antlists@youngman.org.uk" moz-do-not-send="true">antlists@youngman.org.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
<SNIP><br>
> Do you want the system layered, with each layer doing one
job? Use<br>
> dm-integrity to protect against corruption, raid to join
the disks, lvm<br>
> to partition them, and ext to manage the directories and
files.<br>
><br>
> I do the latter ...
<div><br>
<div>No argument there, at least on a group of drives where
you </div>
</div>
<div>want to have flexibility in the future. Desktop computers
or</div>
<div>system drives certainly. You didn't tell me what replaces</div>
<div>the compression aspect of the problem but I'm sure there's</div>
<div>something. It's a great strategy if you have the expertise
and</div>
<div>time to set it up and then manage it when a problem arises,</div>
<div>if it ever arises. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm just asking what's the purpose of doing LVM, or your</div>
<div>suggested layering, specifically on a storage pool for a </div>
<div>home user like Dale? That's the part I don't understand, </div>
<div>especially for a new NAS user like Dale?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mark</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
My reasoning is simple, I'm already familiar with LVM and how to
manage it. While I swap drives on my Gentoo rig pretty regular
lately, I don't want to be limited from doing that on a NAS either.
If for example I want to replace a 10TB drive with a 16TB drive, LVM
makes that easy and I know how to do it already. With ZFS tho, is
that even doable and if it is, do I want to learn to do it with a
new tool? From what I've seen, I'm not even sure you can do that.
It seems you can expand by adding a drive but not replace or
shrink. <br>
<br>
As a example. I went back to a basic pool of two drives. I then
recreated a dataset, or whatever it is called, and added for it to
be encrypted. Since I did that, I get write errors. I can mount it
just fine but that's it. I have no idea what the cause is, google
isn't helping and to be honest, I'm thinking about target practice
for the thing. It took me a good long while to set up the most
basic thing. Adding encryption shouldn't be hard but apparently, it
is more difficult than I thought. That or its so secure even I
can't use it even with the password. lol <br>
<br>
This is what I like about LVM and cryptsetup. I create a partition,
or use a whole drive, as needed. I use cryptsetup to start the
process with one drive. I then put ext4 on top of that. Then I add
a second drive to that pv, add that to the volume group, extend the
file system, all done. And it is encrypted as well. If I need to
move from one drive to say a larger drive, no problem. Add drive,
move data, remove old drive, extend file system if needed, all
done. I have notes but I've done it a lot recently and have the
general idea still glued to the back of my head. ;-) Thing is, ZFS
isn't making sense to me so I'm clueless where to start when
something goes wrong or even getting it to work period. I may try
watching a video on ZFS and see if that helps. Maybe it will, maybe
I'll still prefer LVM. After all, I'm a old dog. New tricks ain't
easy. ROFL <br>
<br>
If I bought a pre-made NAS, I'd just have to deal with it. I'd keep
hammering until I got it to where I could backup my data. If I
build a Raspberry thing, NAS software may not be my first choice.
Maybe, just maybe, my light bulb will pop on and I can make sense of
TrueNAS and ZFS. If so, fine. Right now, it's a lot of work with
really no gain. I'm not able to backup my data yet. It's a brick,
time consuming and confusing brick at that. <br>
<br>
After supper, I'm rebooting and see if I can beat some sense into
again. Seriously considering using dd and starting over from
scratch. I can't figure out how to do that with the GUI thing. No
delete button, that I can find anyway. <br>
<br>
Dale<br>
<br>
:-) :-) <br>
</body>
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