[gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue

[gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue

[C. Beamer]

Hi all,

I've become so enamoured with Gentoo that I've decided to install on my
laptop.  However, I'm having a bit of a problem.

I'm at the point where I can boot the system and I've been trying to
install xorg-x11.  However, the laptop keeps powering off on me.

This wasn't a problem until I build the kernel where I built acpi
support into it.  However, I *didn't* read the ACPI Guide and obviously,
should have.  That's no big problem, I'll just recompile the kernel and
follow what the Guide says.

My issue is this:  The computer powered off in the middle of the install
of xorg-x11.  This has happened a couple of times.  I haven't been
having problems with the laptop, so I'm pretty sure the issue has
something to do with power management since I built power management
into the kernel, but didn't emerge acpid.  Anyway, since the emerge of
xorg-x11 has bombed a couple of times, is there anything that I should
do in the way of clean up before trying to emerge it again?

Regards,

Colleen
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue

[Rafael Fernández López]

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I can't find any sense at that issue: I can't understand what's the reason 
that make your computer turn off in a compilation.

Well... I'm afraid of temperature. I hope that's not the reason, but is the 
first thing that came to my mind. Maybe in your laptop (I've an Amilo Fujitsu 
Siemens, and when compiling OO or KDE it is really hot), when it reachs some 
temperature it turns off because of security reasons.

I cannot find any other reason.

Bye,
Rafael Fernández López.

El Domingo, 11 de Diciembre de 2005 11:42, C. Beamer escribió:
> Hi all,
>
> I've become so enamoured with Gentoo that I've decided to install on my
> laptop.  However, I'm having a bit of a problem.
>
> I'm at the point where I can boot the system and I've been trying to
> install xorg-x11.  However, the laptop keeps powering off on me.
>
> This wasn't a problem until I build the kernel where I built acpi
> support into it.  However, I *didn't* read the ACPI Guide and obviously,
> should have.  That's no big problem, I'll just recompile the kernel and
> follow what the Guide says.
>
> My issue is this:  The computer powered off in the middle of the install
> of xorg-x11.  This has happened a couple of times.  I haven't been
> having problems with the laptop, so I'm pretty sure the issue has
> something to do with power management since I built power management
> into the kernel, but didn't emerge acpid.  Anyway, since the emerge of
> xorg-x11 has bombed a couple of times, is there anything that I should
> do in the way of clean up before trying to emerge it again?
>
> Regards,
>
> Colleen

-- 
A la vista de suficientes ojos todos los errores resultan evidentes - Linus 
Torvalds

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Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue

[Mariusz Pękala]

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> El Domingo, 11 de Diciembre de 2005 11:42, C. Beamer escribió:
> > My issue is this:  The computer powered off in the middle of the install
> > of xorg-x11.  This has happened a couple of times.  I haven't been
> > having problems with the laptop, so I'm pretty sure the issue has
> > something to do with power management since I built power management
> > into the kernel, but didn't emerge acpid.  Anyway, since the emerge of
> > xorg-x11 has bombed a couple of times, is there anything that I should
> > do in the way of clean up before trying to emerge it again?
> > Colleen

> On 2005-12-11 17:32:46 +0100 (Sun, Dec), Rafael Fernández López wrote:
> I can't find any sense at that issue: I can't understand what's the reason 
> that make your computer turn off in a compilation.
> 
> Well... I'm afraid of temperature. I hope that's not the reason, but is the 
> first thing that came to my mind. Maybe in your laptop (I've an Amilo Fujitsu 
> Siemens, and when compiling OO or KDE it is really hot), when it reachs some 
> temperature it turns off because of security reasons.
> 
> I cannot find any other reason.

I vote for temperature issues too. That is my experience with some
Aristo laptop - it get very hot very easily and powers off when
temperature exceeds 85 C.

You may try to run something like this while emerging:
# while sleep 5 ; do cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THM0/temperature >>
  /tmp/temper ; done &

and hope that part of that file will survive the poweroff - you will see
whether temperature was raising before end.

Or you may put something like:
 ... do cat /proc/acp..... | tee -a /tmp/temper ; done &
in background in the session in which emerge runs and observe the
temperature between compilation lines.

The exact path to temperature file may differ, it will be something like
/proc/acpi/thermal_zone/*/temperature - and it will exist only if your
kernel has necessary drivers compiled (or modules inserted).

The /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/*/temperture file has about 30 bytes,
35 thousands of copies makes 1MB file, so you loop may run for 9
hours if storing one copy every second or 48 hours if appending one copy
every 5 seconds.

HTH.

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by 'grep -i virus $MESSAGE'
Trust me.

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Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue

[Devon Miller]

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Do you have CONFIG_CPU_FREQ defined in your kernel config?

I have an HP laptop where I have seen similar behavior. After dealing with
it for some time, I tracked it down to a problem with changing the cpu's
frequency. For a very small period after the clock is changed, the thermal
sensor reads back nonsense. I've seen readings like "69... 69... 95...
70..." and that's with 0.5 second sampling. I've found 2 workarounds:

1) The quick and easy way:
       /etc/init.d/powernowd stop
       Now, build x.org
       /etc/init.d/powernowd start

       Of course you'll need to replace powernowd with what ever power
management daemon you have emerged.

2) The uglier, but potentially more useful fix:
        Save this as thermal.diff:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- orig/drivers/acpi/thermal.c 2005-07-07 22:37:42.000000000 -0400
+++ new/drivers/acpi/thermal.c  2005-06-15 18:30:43.000000000 -0400
@@ -61,7 +61,8 @@
 #define ACPI_THERMAL_MODE_ACTIVE       0x00
 #define ACPI_THERMAL_MODE_PASSIVE      0x01
 #define ACPI_THERMAL_MODE_CRITICAL     0xff
-#define ACPI_THERMAL_PATH_POWEROFF     "/sbin/poweroff"
+//#define ACPI_THERMAL_PATH_POWEROFF   "/sbin/poweroff"
+#define ACPI_THERMAL_PATH_POWEROFF     "/sbin/overheat"

 #define ACPI_THERMAL_MAX_ACTIVE        10
 #define ACPI_THERMAL_MAX_LIMIT_STR_LEN 65
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Patch the kernel by cd'ing to /usr/src/linux and typing:
                patch -p1 < <path-to>/thermal.diff

        This will cause the kernel to call /sbin/overheat instead of
/sbin/powerdown if your laptop hits a critical temperature.
        Save this as /sbin/overheat:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#!/bin/bash

POWER_MGT_COMMAND=/etc/init.d/powernowd

if ${POWER_MGT_COMMAND} status > /dev/null ; then
    ${POWER_MGT_COMMAND} stop

    cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_min_freq \
        > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed
    echo -n 0 > /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THRM/cooling_mode
    (
        echo System switched to low power mode for cooling
        cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THRM/temperature
    ) | wall
fi
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Make /sbin/overheat executable by typing:
            chmod 755 /sbin/overheat

        Now, when the thermal sensor reports crazy values, my laptop just
slows way down instead of completely stopping.

On my todo list:
        o  After the temperature comes down, reenable power management
        o  If the temperature does not come down in a reasonable period,
then shut it down.
        o  A better patch that takes into account cpufreq changes and
disable the thermal faults for a few ms after a frequency change. I need to
get a better idea of how long the sensor gives erroneous readings.

dcm

On 12/12/05, Mariusz Pękala <skoot@qi.pl> wrote:
>
> > El Domingo, 11 de Diciembre de 2005 11:42, C. Beamer escribió:
> > > My issue is this:  The computer powered off in the middle of the
> install
> > > of xorg-x11.  This has happened a couple of times.  I haven't been
> > > having problems with the laptop, so I'm pretty sure the issue has
> > > something to do with power management since I built power management
> > > into the kernel, but didn't emerge acpid.  Anyway, since the emerge of
> > > xorg-x11 has bombed a couple of times, is there anything that I should
> > > do in the way of clean up before trying to emerge it again?
> > > Colleen
>
> > On 2005-12-11 17:32:46 +0100 (Sun, Dec), Rafael Fernández López wrote:
> > I can't find any sense at that issue: I can't understand what's the
> reason
> > that make your computer turn off in a compilation.
> >
> > Well... I'm afraid of temperature. I hope that's not the reason, but is
> the
> > first thing that came to my mind. Maybe in your laptop (I've an Amilo
> Fujitsu
> > Siemens, and when compiling OO or KDE it is really hot), when it reachs
> some
> > temperature it turns off because of security reasons.
> >
> > I cannot find any other reason.
>
> I vote for temperature issues too. That is my experience with some
> Aristo laptop - it get very hot very easily and powers off when
> temperature exceeds 85 C.
>
> You may try to run something like this while emerging:
> # while sleep 5 ; do cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THM0/temperature >>
>   /tmp/temper ; done &
>
> and hope that part of that file will survive the poweroff - you will see
> whether temperature was raising before end.
>
> Or you may put something like:
> ... do cat /proc/acp..... | tee -a /tmp/temper ; done &
> in background in the session in which emerge runs and observe the
> temperature between compilation lines.
>
> The exact path to temperature file may differ, it will be something like
> /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/*/temperature - and it will exist only if your
> kernel has necessary drivers compiled (or modules inserted).
>
> The /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/*/temperture file has about 30 bytes,
> 35 thousands of copies makes 1MB file, so you loop may run for 9
> hours if storing one copy every second or 48 hours if appending one copy
> every 5 seconds.
>
> HTH.
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by 'grep -i virus $MESSAGE'
> Trust me.
>
>
>

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Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue & update

[C. Beamer]

Devon Miller wrote:

> Do you have CONFIG_CPU_FREQ defined in your kernel config?
>
> I have an HP laptop where I have seen similar behavior. After dealing
> with it for some time, I tracked it down to a problem with changing
> the cpu's frequency. For a very small period after the clock is
> changed, the thermal sensor reads back nonsense. I've seen readings
> like "69... 69... 95... 70..." and that's with 0.5 second sampling.
> I've found 2 workarounds:
>
> 1) The quick and easy way:
>        /etc/init.d/powernowd stop
>        Now, build x.org <http://x.org>
>        /etc/init.d/powernowd start
>
>        Of course you'll need to replace powernowd with what ever power
> management daemon you have emerged.
>
> 2) The uglier, but potentially more useful fix:

I haven't tried your suggestions yet.

At first, I didn't think this could be a heating issue.  The reason for
this was twofold.  First, I hadn't explicitly followed the instructions
in the ACPI Guide, so I figured that because of this maybe it was
causing some "wonky" behaviour.  Second, I had the laptop into Dell 6
months ago and they did extensive diagnostics and ultimately replaced
the fan.

However, I changed my thoughs after reading some of the replies in this
thread, most of the unified assumption that it *was* a heating issue. 
Also, when I was doing the original install of the Gentoo base system, I
selected to have ACPI built into the kernel, but didn't change any of
the defaults that were selected in genkernel.  Hence, I was trying to
rebuild prior to following the remaining instructions in the ACPI Guide
and the laptop shutdown in the middle of the kernel build.  Luckiy, on
reboot, it defaulted to the good kernel build.

Anyway, because of this, I gave up last night.  I guess when I initially
tried to build xorg-x11 and it bombed, I never let the laptop properly
cool down.  I retried tonight and successfully got the new kernel to
build and am now creating the scripts as directed in the ACPI Guide.

Once I've done this, I will try again with building xorg-x11 and will
try the above suggestions.

Thanks to all who replied to this.  I'm really hoping that I can get
Gentoo installed on my laptop.  For me, after trying Gentoo, everything
else pales in comparison!

Regards,

Colleen
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue - Success!

[C. Beamer]

Mariusz Pękala wrote:

>>El Domingo, 11 de Diciembre de 2005 11:42, C. Beamer escribió:
>>    
>>
>>>My issue is this:  The computer powered off in the middle of the install
>>>of xorg-x11.  This has happened a couple of times.  I haven't been
>>>having problems with the laptop, so I'm pretty sure the issue has
>>>something to do with power management since I built power management
>>>into the kernel, but didn't emerge acpid.
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>>On 2005-12-11 17:32:46 +0100 (Sun, Dec), Rafael Fernández López wrote:
>>I can't find any sense at that issue: I can't understand what's the reason 
>>that make your computer turn off in a compilation.
>>
>>Well... I'm afraid of temperature. I hope that's not the reason, but is the 
>>first thing that came to my mind. Maybe in your laptop (I've an Amilo Fujitsu 
>>Siemens, and when compiling OO or KDE it is really hot), when it reachs some 
>>temperature it turns off because of security reasons.
>>
>>I cannot find any other reason.
>>    
>>
>
>I vote for temperature issues too. That is my experience with some
>Aristo laptop - it get very hot very easily and powers off when
>temperature exceeds 85 C.
>
As it turned out, it *was* a temperature issue. But it was also an acpi
issue which was my fault and my stupidity for not reading the Gentoo
ACPI Guide.

Once I recompiled the kernel and set up ACPI with the scripts as
outlined in the Guide, I was able to emerge xorg-x11 no problem. The
laptop got warm, but nowhere near hot! :-)

The more I deal with Gentoo, the more I realize that the Gentoo
documentation is an invaluable resource and there can't be enough said
about it! :-)

Thanks again to all who responded to this thread.

Regards,

Colleen
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue

[Rumen Yotov]

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On (11/12/05 10:42), C. Beamer wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've become so enamoured with Gentoo that I've decided to install on my
> laptop.  However, I'm having a bit of a problem.
> 
> I'm at the point where I can boot the system and I've been trying to
> install xorg-x11.  However, the laptop keeps powering off on me.
> 
> This wasn't a problem until I build the kernel where I built acpi
> support into it.  However, I *didn't* read the ACPI Guide and obviously,
> should have.  That's no big problem, I'll just recompile the kernel and
> follow what the Guide says.
> 
> My issue is this:  The computer powered off in the middle of the install
> of xorg-x11.  This has happened a couple of times.  I haven't been
> having problems with the laptop, so I'm pretty sure the issue has
> something to do with power management since I built power management
> into the kernel, but didn't emerge acpid.  Anyway, since the emerge of
> xorg-x11 has bombed a couple of times, is there anything that I should
> do in the way of clean up before trying to emerge it again?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Colleen
> -- 
> gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> 
Hi,
No experience with laptops, but here's some suggestions.
Check on Google about your laptop's brand,model etc.
Reboot with kernel parameter "acpi=off" or other, check install docs/CD.
Give here some info about it, very likely someone will have similar.
HTH.Rumen

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Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue

[Allan Gottlieb]

At Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:42:13 +0000 "C. Beamer" <cbeamer@interlynx.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm at the point where I can boot the system and I've been trying to
> install xorg-x11.  However, the laptop keeps powering off on me.
>
> This wasn't a problem until I build the kernel where I built acpi
> support into it.  However, I *didn't* read the ACPI Guide and obviously,
> should have.  That's no big problem, I'll just recompile the kernel and
> follow what the Guide says.

Had you built xorg-x11 when the kernel didn't have acpi support?
I ask because a long build could be raising the temperature of your
laptop and it is shutting off to save itself from frying.

I have had dell service replace motherboards on two laptops because of
this problem.  But it could be much simpler

1.  Make sure you don't have any vents blocked.  For example, don't
    place your laptop on a soft surface if it has bottom vents.

2.  Blow or vacuum the vents to hopefully remove any blockage.

> My issue is this:  The computer powered off in the middle of the install
> of xorg-x11.  This has happened a couple of times.  I haven't been
> having problems with the laptop, so I'm pretty sure the issue has
> something to do with power management since I built power management
> into the kernel, but didn't emerge acpid.  Anyway, since the emerge of
> xorg-x11 has bombed a couple of times, is there anything that I should
> do in the way of clean up before trying to emerge it again?

It is of course not good to have a machine shut off in the middle of
execution.  I don't know if the heat sensing shutoff has fail-stop or
byzantine semantics.  Presumably your file systems are journaling so
you have a good chance of surviving without any damage (I would do an
    e2fsck -f   --or equivalent for your filesystem type--
on each filesystem, but I am somewhat paranoid).

Having an emerge stop (say by Control-C) in the middle of a *compile*
phase should not be a serious problem.  You might check
/var/tmp/portage to see if the tmp directory for xorg-x11 is still
there.

hth,
allan
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue

[C. Beamer]

Allan Gottlieb wrote:

>At Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:42:13 +0000 "C. Beamer" <cbeamer@interlynx.net> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm at the point where I can boot the system and I've been trying to
>>install xorg-x11.  However, the laptop keeps powering off on me.
>>
>>This wasn't a problem until I build the kernel where I built acpi
>>support into it.  However, I *didn't* read the ACPI Guide and obviously,
>>should have.  That's no big problem, I'll just recompile the kernel and
>>follow what the Guide says.
>>    
>>
>
>Had you built xorg-x11 when the kernel didn't have acpi support?
>I ask because a long build could be raising the temperature of your
>laptop and it is shutting off to save itself from frying.
>
>I have had dell service replace motherboards on two laptops because of
>this problem.
>

Actually, my laptop is a Dell.  To answer your question, I had build
acpi into the kernel prior to trying to emerge xorg-x11.  However, I
didn't change any of the default selections that were there when I ran
genkernel --menuconfig all.  The think I didn't do was emerge acpid and
adjust the settings as per the instructions in the ACPI Guide.  I'm
going to try this now to see if that fixes the problem.

Another thing, there was a choice to build Dell laptop support into the
kernel and I selected this.  Hopefully, that isn't 'causing anything
"quirky".

Regards,

Colleen
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] Laptop Install Issue

[Allan Gottlieb]

At Sun, 11 Dec 2005 15:27:10 +0000 "C. Beamer" <cbeamer@interlynx.net> wrote:

> Allan Gottlieb wrote:
>
>>Had you built xorg-x11 when the kernel didn't have acpi support?
>>I ask because a long build could be raising the temperature of your
>>laptop and it is shutting off to save itself from frying.
>>
>>I have had dell service replace motherboards on two laptops because of
>>this problem.
>>
>
> Actually, my laptop is a Dell.  To answer your question, I had build
> acpi into the kernel prior to trying to emerge xorg-x11.

I would say that it is then more likely to be heat caused by the long
build than by acpi.  But of course you can turn off acpi and try the
emerge again to be sure.

> However, I didn't change any of the default selections that were
> there when I ran genkernel --menuconfig all.  The think I didn't do
> was emerge acpid and adjust the settings as per the instructions in
> the ACPI Guide.  I'm going to try this now to see if that fixes the
> problem.
>
> Another thing, there was a choice to build Dell laptop support into the
> kernel and I selected this.  Hopefully, that isn't 'causing anything
> "quirky".

I have a dell 5150 and the only kernel options I remember were for a
different dell (8600?) so I didn't use them.

I would run dell's diagnostic.  The best case (assuming you have a
service contract) would be if it found an error; the second best would
be if the machine turned off during the diagnostic.

I have dell service and when the laptop turned off, dell fixed it with
no real fuss.

allan
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