[gentoo-user] Skype

[gentoo-user] Skype

[Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku]

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Is Skype "largely unusable" on Gentoo?  It feels like about 3 days ago I
was forced to upgrade because "this version is no longer supported" and
to upgrade I had to keyword the latest version.  If this keeps
happening, to me, this is broken.  And I'm not sure if the problem is
that we are so far behind, that when Microsoft removes support we only
just barely meet the requirements, or if there is something I am missing.

I *do* like to keep my computer updated, but unless I misunderstand (and
it seems that Gentoo has changed a lot since I started using it about
15-20 years ago (I think)) stable is the recommended way to run the
system unless you want to go into "here be pesky programmes" territory.
When I started, even "stable" was a lot more work than previously used
distributions, but with Gentoo, I've always felt that with Gentoo, while
doing "basic stuff" can be more difficult, other distributions have
always been "if it doesn't work out of the box, it's probably not that
worth trying to figure it out."

I still feel that getting things working in Gentoo is always "a bit of
work" and if it "doesn't just work" it often still can be done without a
whole lot more work.  But having to upgrade in a "manual way" on
approximately a weekly basis just to have functionality tells me that
something is badly broken (and I don't feel it is Gentoo in this case,
but I need to have some better understanding).

I know, that when I was trying to figure out just "what was supported" I
actually wasn't getting good information...


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Re: [gentoo-user] Skype

[Mick]

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On Monday, 27 November 2017 17:10:26 GMT Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku wrote:
> Is Skype "largely unusable" on Gentoo?  It feels like about 3 days ago I
> was forced to upgrade because "this version is no longer supported" and
> to upgrade I had to keyword the latest version.  If this keeps
> happening, to me, this is broken.  And I'm not sure if the problem is
> that we are so far behind, that when Microsoft removes support we only
> just barely meet the requirements, or if there is something I am missing.

Both versions of net-im/skypeforlinux are keyworded at present.  I don't know 
if they've been on the tree for more than 30 days, without any bugs reported.  
I'm using 5.5.0.1 at present and have not noticed any problems, but my use of 
it is rather limited.


> I *do* like to keep my computer updated, but unless I misunderstand (and
> it seems that Gentoo has changed a lot since I started using it about
> 15-20 years ago (I think)) stable is the recommended way to run the
> system unless you want to go into "here be pesky programmes" territory.
> When I started, even "stable" was a lot more work than previously used
> distributions, but with Gentoo, I've always felt that with Gentoo, while
> doing "basic stuff" can be more difficult, other distributions have
> always been "if it doesn't work out of the box, it's probably not that
> worth trying to figure it out."

From what I recall 'stable' means no bugs reported in the last 30 days.


> I still feel that getting things working in Gentoo is always "a bit of
> work" and if it "doesn't just work" it often still can be done without a
> whole lot more work.  But having to upgrade in a "manual way" on
> approximately a weekly basis just to have functionality tells me that
> something is badly broken (and I don't feel it is Gentoo in this case,
> but I need to have some better understanding).

Yes, Gentoo is more work than any point & click to install/maintain/upgrade 
binary distro.  This is the nature of the beast, but you probably know this if 
you've been using Gentoo for all these years.


> I know, that when I was trying to figure out just "what was supported" I
> actually wasn't getting good information...

My understanding of Linux and Gentoo in particular is that nothing is 
"supported".  What you get is the outcome of best endeavours, kind hearted 
volunteers care to contribute.  Of course, if you have signed a support 
contract with RHL things may be different.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] Skype

[Corbin]

On 11/27/2017 11:10 AM, Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku wrote:
> Is Skype "largely unusable" on Gentoo?  It feels like about 3 days ago I
> was forced to upgrade because "this version is no longer supported" and
> to upgrade I had to keyword the latest version.  If this keeps
> happening, to me, this is broken.  And I'm not sure if the problem is
> that we are so far behind, that when Microsoft removes support we only
> just barely meet the requirements, or if there is something I am missing.
>
> I *do* like to keep my computer updated, but unless I misunderstand (and
> it seems that Gentoo has changed a lot since I started using it about
> 15-20 years ago (I think)) stable is the recommended way to run the
> system unless you want to go into "here be pesky programmes" territory.
> When I started, even "stable" was a lot more work than previously used
> distributions, but with Gentoo, I've always felt that with Gentoo, while
> doing "basic stuff" can be more difficult, other distributions have
> always been "if it doesn't work out of the box, it's probably not that
> worth trying to figure it out."
>
> I still feel that getting things working in Gentoo is always "a bit of
> work" and if it "doesn't just work" it often still can be done without a
> whole lot more work.  But having to upgrade in a "manual way" on
> approximately a weekly basis just to have functionality tells me that
> something is badly broken (and I don't feel it is Gentoo in this case,
> but I need to have some better understanding).
>
> I know, that when I was trying to figure out just "what was supported" I
> actually wasn't getting good information...
>
personal opinion/

It is the software author / maintainer being stupid.

Two Possibilities :

# 1 : They can't do it right the first time, so they get to constantly
redo it.

# 2 : Skype is a MS product. MS still ( on purpose ) breaks their
software routinely so it will not work on other OS's.

NOTE : Microsoft has a reputation for being a "feckless weasel" when it
comes to what is supported and how it is supported.

/personal opinion.

Corbin

Re: [gentoo-user] Skype

[R0b0t1]

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Hello,

On Monday, November 27, 2017, Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku <
jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com> wrote:
> Is Skype "largely unusable" on Gentoo?  It feels like about 3 days ago I
> was forced to upgrade because "this version is no longer supported" and
> to upgrade I had to keyword the latest version.  If this keeps
> happening, to me, this is broken.  And I'm not sure if the problem is
> that we are so far behind, that when Microsoft removes support we only
> just barely meet the requirements, or if there is something I am missing.
>
> I *do* like to keep my computer updated, but unless I misunderstand (and
> it seems that Gentoo has changed a lot since I started using it about
> 15-20 years ago (I think)) stable is the recommended way to run the
> system unless you want to go into "here be pesky programmes" territory.
> When I started, even "stable" was a lot more work than previously used
> distributions, but with Gentoo, I've always felt that with Gentoo, while
> doing "basic stuff" can be more difficult, other distributions have
> always been "if it doesn't work out of the box, it's probably not that
> worth trying to figure it out."
>
> I still feel that getting things working in Gentoo is always "a bit of
> work" and if it "doesn't just work" it often still can be done without a
> whole lot more work.  But having to upgrade in a "manual way" on
> approximately a weekly basis just to have functionality tells me that
> something is badly broken (and I don't feel it is Gentoo in this case,
> but I need to have some better understanding).
>
> I know, that when I was trying to figure out just "what was supported" I
> actually wasn't getting good information...
>

If it is keyworded it is "supported" unless you are using very niche
software. This does not mean anyone will be able to help you fix things
quickly.

Unstable packages typically run well. I routinely fix issues by using
unstable or even unkeyworded packages over the stable versions. Most issues
arise when stable and unstable packages interact, usually due to breaking
interface changes. So, paradoxically, an unstable (or testing) system can
be more stable than a stable system.

If you fix an issue by using an unstable package you can request
stabilization. Sometimes people forget to do it. For a package like Skype,
though, I suspect it will be stabilized as soon as possible.

Cheers,
    R0b0t1

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Re: [gentoo-user] Skype

[Lex Luthor]

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Yeah, MS can have some pretty malicious practices. When they acquired Skype
they *removed* the E2E encryption.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 12:02 PM, R0b0t1 <r030t1@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
> On Monday, November 27, 2017, Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku <
> jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com> wrote:
> > Is Skype "largely unusable" on Gentoo?  It feels like about 3 days ago I
> > was forced to upgrade because "this version is no longer supported" and
> > to upgrade I had to keyword the latest version.  If this keeps
> > happening, to me, this is broken.  And I'm not sure if the problem is
> > that we are so far behind, that when Microsoft removes support we only
> > just barely meet the requirements, or if there is something I am missing.
> >
> > I *do* like to keep my computer updated, but unless I misunderstand (and
> > it seems that Gentoo has changed a lot since I started using it about
> > 15-20 years ago (I think)) stable is the recommended way to run the
> > system unless you want to go into "here be pesky programmes" territory.
> > When I started, even "stable" was a lot more work than previously used
> > distributions, but with Gentoo, I've always felt that with Gentoo, while
> > doing "basic stuff" can be more difficult, other distributions have
> > always been "if it doesn't work out of the box, it's probably not that
> > worth trying to figure it out."
> >
> > I still feel that getting things working in Gentoo is always "a bit of
> > work" and if it "doesn't just work" it often still can be done without a
> > whole lot more work.  But having to upgrade in a "manual way" on
> > approximately a weekly basis just to have functionality tells me that
> > something is badly broken (and I don't feel it is Gentoo in this case,
> > but I need to have some better understanding).
> >
> > I know, that when I was trying to figure out just "what was supported" I
> > actually wasn't getting good information...
> >
>
> If it is keyworded it is "supported" unless you are using very niche
> software. This does not mean anyone will be able to help you fix things
> quickly.
>
> Unstable packages typically run well. I routinely fix issues by using
> unstable or even unkeyworded packages over the stable versions. Most issues
> arise when stable and unstable packages interact, usually due to breaking
> interface changes. So, paradoxically, an unstable (or testing) system can
> be more stable than a stable system.
>
> If you fix an issue by using an unstable package you can request
> stabilization. Sometimes people forget to do it. For a package like Skype,
> though, I suspect it will be stabilized as soon as possible.
>
> Cheers,
>     R0b0t1

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[solved] Re: [gentoo-user] Skype

[Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku]

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Thank you,

On 11/27/2017 10:02 AM, R0b0t1 wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Monday, November 27, 2017, Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku
> <jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com
> <mailto:jigme.datse@datsemultimedia.com>> wrote:
>
>> I know, that when I was trying to figure out just "what was supported" I
>> actually wasn't getting good information...
> 
> If it is keyworded it is "supported" unless you are using very niche
> software. This does not mean anyone will be able to help you fix things
> quickly.

I think that I wasn't really clear as to where I was looking, and what I
meant by supported.  I know that it runs, and that it works as expected
in terms of Gentoo.  What I was looking at was the Microsoft page, and
what I saw there wasn't entirely clear.

Looking again, I see they say "5.* is at end of life, and is being
decommissioned as of now".  This is all that is in the main gentoo
repository.  So, while it runs fine, it doesn't actually do what people
would be installing it for (there are overlays which provide newer, and
at least most recent major version, versions).

> Unstable packages typically run well. I routinely fix issues by using
> unstable or even unkeyworded packages over the stable versions. Most
> issues arise when stable and unstable packages interact, usually due to
> breaking interface changes. So, paradoxically, an unstable (or testing)
> system can be more stable than a stable system.

I have few problems with how well it runs.  It's just that it fails to
connect to the server.  It appears often getting stuff like Skype to run
we need to install from an overlay, or install manually.

> If you fix an issue by using an unstable package you can request
> stabilization. Sometimes people forget to do it. For a package like
> Skype, though, I suspect it will be stabilized as soon as possible.

I *could* be mistaken, we will need to update the versions available to
get it to work.  I have a suspicion that it isn't really being
maintained.  I'm not sure.  I am having trouble finding "release
history", as I can't see what comes between skypeforlinux 5.* and 8.*,
and 8.* *seems* to have been released less than a month ago.

I agree with what has been said.  Microsoft has been very well known to
break things for other operating systems, especially for "Microsoft"
type stuff (as opposed to stuff that people don't really understand it
is Microsoft unless they are very aware).

Thank you everyone, I *think* this is solved.  I haven't installed, or
tested yet, but rion overlay is giving me what I need (at least it should).

Jigme Datse Yli-Rasku


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Re: [gentoo-user] Skype

[Jigme Datse Yli-RAsku]

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On 11/27/2017 10:14 AM, Lex Luthor wrote:
> Yeah, MS can have some pretty malicious practices. When they acquired
> Skype they *removed* the E2E encryption.

I am only using it for people I occasionally contact who are using it.
Specifically there is a group who I am involved with is ~800 km away,
and my only contact is online, but they use Skype, so I looked to see
what was happening with that.



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