From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A260138334 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 22:17:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 73BF9E0C03; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 22:17:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-yw1-xc41.google.com (mail-yw1-xc41.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFB6EE0BE3 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 22:17:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-yw1-xc41.google.com with SMTP id v77-v6so3701187ywc.4 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 14:17:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NetiK8IpwV17fdufnH2BH63EDv8bNpHzJZWUklSgS6I=; b=Qm++Dse9nd71AHZ2lk+81tM2VmBgoc6fhzz+g+ESkp/JSxCNETsGg51CM3oEXcSizm ZbQvpj9WUGylagLzYVIBCS1zFK1vg62KBgjZnhNlI8bUdvoJWrMJDfc6WIQKC6KcCqKz FDDCIOoACR5/3T95/rQ1Inn6EfdD81gPhrtuAuhhMjG5OcV+UXzqjMn5bAElcabY2GU9 r36EkoEXdosJlbmswvM3r9DnUcgxOcQy3Dp4mSiNHIZUlK64RodLFefFerNDbGMiPJ4r 5yFgXTPjc668BEb3by+JcpSkBg3iBbIvIXLEeLhIEjt9E+Alp/E6TPUThnpmQh0deKSd LW7Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:openpgp:autocrypt :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NetiK8IpwV17fdufnH2BH63EDv8bNpHzJZWUklSgS6I=; b=A9L9w2MjE0doxPuQf45PMXlAqTPTcgA0Ufz6KKsELpJh9aDH/NSdhv6WgHZIGvDkY2 dFaFGb63Jr7rjXtaxpjVeZcQT8cVJ3kS2kmFC/pfLrxg2mILxeRX3wFqHBIBQpIFfLfk jbqdPLeLYx+O2vHrpTPsvZKZ7LnSl/0svFgo2Ic1xf8sbRRghSEKELMk3UNS37nRODHc JaRdtsymrf1tDM8BwqoVFvngH8T4Fx9uZ1tfWiHoDravIDg6FEQRVU72M+It5dJDwWwD XKbtGCFP7xxBFgVa0PONI5ZjVyO7qTRhPkuiSiOqabDjNbem2NSIHdOGFihXqMP94ivY 8hMg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gKnkism8U+CM01mxNTFx9OZEs6AuZG13oCN6Vno+FGGURD+esUQ 6d/rFAD3msvo0NU9SZjZFK4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5fReMbYfvupcUb688spptpP1HNn02qeQD2UvdNwZS2hXFT+Cc5bALBQxqtXWDPna+Y3O8GHSg== X-Received: by 2002:a81:6c12:: with SMTP id h18-v6mr16136770ywc.116.1541974640835; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 14:17:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.5] (adsl-68-19-248-97.bna.bellsouth.net. [68.19.248.97]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u134-v6sm13771493ywf.86.2018.11.11.14.17.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 11 Nov 2018 14:17:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Hard drive storage questions To: Wol's lists , Gentoo User References: <9b5365ed-5cca-54b3-0da7-bbbe697b4c40@gmail.com> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFpEtdQBEADI51WaryP3FJlDfmCQx2aPQpSppEKxqWhCTA8KFEcOVFmIIfiFAeekqMMD mhUxgZTtlQh7dsNqha6ioaYDqGKTv7oeJlPJw4hmIMJX3WYVSOHlsJUNM2jpDIAFeEKfup/T zDzFpuU2Qtr/Y0ji35wHyOAZLRckeNk705oRvE9wqi6noTP15Gxmw/U6aMzEfvu+wGEfCjgs 9bERmu+CS75PZEaFAv8RnsXUv1UcvQ45jmk/8ni/ogxE2h53OIp6c/hOlgJkSVRQWPZZyKZw lDiSUKCtMXPMdZ9w0X6RltQxtIQXO0KxAKaAp+tnL8z+0piafF5uW4RIglhT922RXKxxdZyx SjRgtE4V1IPtUcwPAeqVUZw2P1b4pjfPv7tNtMoFsIiY0ZnT+ua4ps6KOUeocRPKAX14mZkL jt/sZM7aIKiwyoteshRgWNNkxh4OiSxGCRUKNQI8M42cRSidvJZ6SGZXM3WpV28RPyF7+0Ba 0stEQwBGNF8uxgytY9rOJ7obmIpEZKx1p3W1O1hadOjBo2110jMDirRXtktMDfBDvVKkOZ06 vLu16uZLb0O52euhl2dMcEI3ZoCAFTKtdwMITIDj1TcMBZar6+bcwOicSFFogOLHQLJZRO5q I5szOIYW7+c0yNqPRLT3Sq7HzDyuyTUjmPZSAcqOwzX8GwUFkwARAQABzRtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT7CwZQEEwEIAD4WIQSUDVlCt0m0Z/PsCaxgB5lCagHqugUCWkS1 1AIbIwUJCWYBgAULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBgB5lCagHqurR7D/45/q20 vXdrJGxrkNphotmlBtTpNbVauu5A2NDv3E1Il6yqRBfh4Xw7xFuwhz9DqThuvByU6566vr0z 7oVCK33dxRm4WA7YaogRQZy4VVIbHdrksnh2f702CFllqtn5Y29M2JtXG5jiiL3aZNEhoyP9 eMtzLPGs56yZ3eMkz4U7DEmWCAUr8bbuXW+eq/A0V5djcFdHfmanuDZSxzg+cZTpVOLolS2b pmNsPTSMkJ2MDY2Kfdg3gPhSaawo2agQfgnf9E7vSm7z/rlk8bBUWcPAP/XTN9ndVwOO3x74 EQv/M4EiCTtNpw3yapVZI2NhA1wqW648D7RxIPD8Y3nkJVDS4x5g54xDe1IUFOtVUSDAh+vY wUJt7vgbCeRjyT8XbuGW9RokIos3ALNaPoq/FDNEqefbmop0CPRih6aLFHWT4YBA6xQjLJuP LSNvalNqE5mef0giCtnLxo/lkjnP9Sv+t/5VSHda5zkVuN0+2w46SbGvXIHRkSoSi6XH3ccq KayJC+oTqo4xf9J30c7CV4rEcYnJcnxMw0vcYmU3DwjGfKxuKcLHgPr9mDNWvhteroA5wNWw NzQ72yAj7rsZVUXCxZgiPldSH3SXZJ/Jo6E9JouzQgRb/I4Vy4jx0Yw8rJLDx/ha82fn+FVe cFbiodVV5UD0inw488IAAtJE+Zi0t87BTQRaRLXUARAA38iHcF7M7GnkS73dazdLBgz2YJsu fpix/N/x4CvoHMqTuwi4ASz1WroYjl3KajeH0DSybyPdEQ7nffxIUt48deT3j/rwsJkPRvCF BpmcwxErd/Mbq0BgikYxXvO68aEAs4jBDR26YtONfjobEfd+Juhxci9UN9vTOCgSPhY+dxHs MZ0gHRzvMnpM3o3+oht/XRZr05RQx83DvTIqWnjDQlCseYYlbFp+rFTZi7ro71ULDThfCE0p +f+IQ3zX0cRKOcJGtNRvyWH6PxmN4td6Q7gPHfAsFPLsCpg7nZwOejtAktPejtSEXlN6QOKv bmRQxNtzgMtjzJNNJW2NtBz0DIW394+9stchQRKLqH8n8GnB6tlkfPg4vgf/kq14QQSZcb0F M36wk+i1Hk+TWYWbOBoUw9+X941Pw1JnglJ3tzpBh+36+pdG02Lbm2v6SaZ69zkDfzJ2Sfhb E+KQLibLkiCOhuSDLDWUgUeb0lJ/0qlo3vcQMTBuG5eiWiwBkp4C+ACb1f1Akq0mFvim+gCJ qJOTu0IDK9DjKLKglA3Z6sbeepnXq8fxB2Mo/SFSYEsGqUu4MLxgwnPg7zi+rKg7MhqdiBBE fqugmNguCEYZjJrGCCzwuqPXAZAcyzEYTGFKwI6NdEZ6v8Xc3om9MJomB3y1uzG6K7T9ue5H aw/2aqEAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBJQNWUK3SbRn8+wJrGAHmUJqAeq6BQJaRLXUAhsMBQkJ ZgGAAAoJEGAHmUJqAeq6/ykP/ib6xEHednaXvzZvvj854PB5ffBqKkphbf51g6pxPvFBWMwY E7Bu/kq8e3hkp3rzX42BjqiUmfEe2OyfZCabXLybP8i/QRkHTzD5nLoIYLeL+62N/WQFW1NU VhqdfQbMhphNgP1mvG2Ib5R6S+Fb+vkw776oq6jLwUBP/o6PPpp62GyvFvFb9ekxV9+sE4yG V3DTqURBY+aXfc/MTzlCXp4u4QzFW9odfcb/kb9f1m/gZbWGihAqeMd1HViXQoMzTx6IuP13 eQAkKj4FlA2QMzbEOOKO6fliSt1JweJoh0OLCEAM/3q+LaflMvvjhl9ht00IUT/ySj3/dZdf EdTpuUAtnC3A3flwgK/aetkkOhrkx9hx4SKn6UHtAl+eCqP1Mae+nWzkisBL0/hBPEz713md 5I+4Y4QjIokRiz/5l/TFwpGu26zmDfDUkZmxZR/iNCW0VAmZE2YdyRm3PYcFcVXuZ1f/ff0D us9xGsO8V6F5EIwx/9Y6AWQdW7PoKHA21ri93PoRgjv+QoOifXEkhJwTKg5k5b1Tr7h9eRU/ Se2XigPVODjrN9FRfkx/JxlJcCs/igGJS05BmiZNIIRDKBGdXy/Fj5HQB2q5v5DfvrLMNTwK Aa8pn/em1SKC/l9aV9ygpN+cQPKoQjGxPPaId/rwX+GVxKl2vakjHLPLQmm3 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 16:17:18 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 SeaMonkey/2.49.9.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 855d64c2-6235-48f8-8d48-06c5dad2d06b X-Archives-Hash: fb4bdfa6485a08c67bac7c813af60d34 Wol's lists wrote: > On 11/11/2018 00:45, Dale wrote: >> This is a lot to think on.  Money wise, and maybe even expansion wise, I >> may go with the PCI SATA cards and add drives inside my case.  I have >> plenty of power supply since it pulls at most 200 watts and I think my >> P/S is like 700 or 800 watts.  I can also add a external SATA card or >> another USB drive to do backups with as well.  At some point tho, I may >> have to build one of those little tiny systems that is basically nothing >> but SATA drive controllers and ethernet enabled.  Have that sitting in a >> closet somewhere running some small OS.  I can always just move the >> drives from my system to it if needed. > > https://raid.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/What_is_RAID_and_why_should_you_want_it%3F > > > (disclaimer - I wrote it :-) > > You've got a bunch of questions to ask yourself. Is this an amateur > setup (sounds a bit like it in that it appears to be a home server) or > is it a professional "money no object" setup. > > Either way, if you spend good money on good disks (WD Red, Seagate > Ironwolf, etc) then most of your investment will be good to > re-purpose. My current 3TB drives are Barracudas - not a good idea for > a fault-tolerant system - which is why the replacements are Ironwolves. > > Then, as that web-page makes clear, do you want your raid/volume > management to be separate from your filesystem - mdraid/lvm under ext4 > - or do you want a filesystem that is hardware-aware like zfs or xfs, > or do you want something like btrfs which tries to be the latter, but > is better used as the former. > > One thing to seriously watch out for - many filesystems are aware of > the underlying layer even when you don't expect it. Not sure which > filesystem it is but I remember an email discussion where the > filesystem was aware it was running over mdraid and balanced itself > for the underlying disks. The filesystem developer didn't realise that > mdraid can add and remove disks so the underlying structure can > change, and the recommendation was "once you've set up the raid, if > you want to grow your space move it to a new raid". > > At the end of the day, there is no perfect answer, and you need to ask > yourself what you are trying to achieve, and what you can afford. > > Cheers, > Wol > I've considered RAID before.  For what I have here, doing regular backups is enough, I hope.  Right now, I backup family pics from my camera, documents and all the videos, which is a LOT.  If a drive were to fail, at least I have the backups to go to and would lose little if anything.  Since I backup pretty regular, I could still recover most everything that may not have made it to backup.  I'm on a limited income and this is just a home system.  One thing I try to do is to find a good way forward first, then do something.  That way I don't do something that costs money, realize I did it in a bad way and then have to spend more money doing it again and have parts that I will likely never need or use again.  I try to skip the worthless part when I can.  ;-)  That said, when I do get some drives and they are installed, I'll likely be asking questions about btrfs, zfs, xfs and anything else that may apply.  Currently I use LVM and ext4.  I like it pretty well but that doesn't mean there can't be something better out there.  Dale :-)  :-)