From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970
Received: from lists.gentoo.org ([140.105.134.102] helo=robin.gentoo.org)
by nuthatch.gentoo.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54)
id 1ExIKE-0005Eu-KR
for garchives@archives.gentoo.org; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:22:15 +0000
Received: from robin.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with SMTP id k0D6JA2G012998;
Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:19:10 GMT
Received: from zproxy.gmail.com (zproxy.gmail.com [64.233.162.195])
by robin.gentoo.org (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0D6Ewep009485
for <gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:14:58 GMT
Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so508070nzp
for <gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:14:58 -0800 (PST)
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=beta; d=gmail.com;
h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references;
b=bhbxXoE3cnLm/VWCtmYk59iUubHz4ADNDfghJ8q9NzGcK7faCqAHSOKjKFeB0Dvc5XrOoi1BXA6NybE6A2dILM1WbneAtJJMZZsafERVlOTaf1U87LIieXts3yBJMrMHw2eEciD5zvJWjWSMPqiWYrFsl/OZYVEFvYZi6JEjHCU=
Received: by 10.36.22.15 with SMTP id 15mr2403022nzv;
Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:14:57 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.36.158.8 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 22:14:57 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <a330f67d0601122214i523e12d9gbcf53aa79a0270a4@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:14:57 +0000
From: Justin Hart <justinhart@gmail.com>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: A New Linux Way
In-Reply-To: <a330f67d0601122211m6fce8260x514a9b7de303666f@mail.gmail.com>
Precedence: bulk
List-Post: <mailto:gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gentoo-user+help@gentoo.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:gentoo-user+unsubscribe@gentoo.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:gentoo-user+subscribe@gentoo.org>
List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail <gentoo-user.gentoo.org>
X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@gentoo.org
Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
References: <43C32CC4.4080508@saviourlinux.com>
<200601101826.02980.Petr.Kocmid@project-bhairava.org>
<loom.20060111T151339-426@post.gmane.org>
<a330f67d0601122211m6fce8260x514a9b7de303666f@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by robin.gentoo.org id k0D6Ewep009485
X-Archives-Salt: fa42c4ab-1dec-40ca-8376-4862c97581b3
X-Archives-Hash: c769ffa7fe3e2ace93884f907b5530c1
Also of note, it looks as though they took down the site. He probably
read a handful of threads like this :-( I guess he'll learn his
lesson and come back all the stronger for it.
Justin
On 1/13/06, Justin Hart <justinhart@gmail.com> wrote:
> While I appreciate a good pitch, I actually think that what awakened
> the list so mightily is that someone brazenly posted to a Linux user
> list with a business pitch with no business plan attached.
>
> I think that most people who've had at least a brush with professional
> software engineering read such a statement as if it were steel wool
> scraping their eyeballs. If they've encountered such a business
> situation, they know, it's not so much that it's a scam, it's that
> they would suffer a lot less if it was just a scam.
>
> Justin
>
> On 1/11/06, James <wireless@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> > Petr Kocmid <Petr.Kocmid <at> project-bhairava.org> writes:
> >
> >
> > > On Tuesday 10 January 2006 04:40, Mark Stewart wrote:
> > > > Hello fellow Linux Users!
> > > > We here at SaviourLinux.com desire to create a united universal way.
> > > > Please visit the website for more information, but here is the purpose:
> >
> > > You missed the target audience. Here at gentoo there are mostly hardcore linux
> > > geeks, and we already have "universal way". You do not make a fortune here
> > > with a scam like this.
> >
> > (Splash--WAKE UP CALL)
> >
> > This thread has generated much noise, because it invokes the very antithesis
> > of many things we hold dear: Irrelevance of Microsoft one day, ubiquitous
> > secure and distributed computing, fantastic multimedia influenced and
> > controlled by the little people of world etc etc....
> >
> > It has generated so much concern (deeply disturbing responses) because we all
> > need to earn a living and it'd be nice if we could do it, being perveyours
> > of linux (Gentoo specifically) yet we lack initiative.
> >
> > I have often talk about preparing Gentoo for the masses, with little collective
> > interest. I have even offered to spent my limited financial resources to get
> > talented people to develop specific software and make it open source so that
> > it can be used freely, available in source code and also open to
> > entrepreneurial endeavors, much like the BSDish licenses. I personally think
> > all of the hype over licenses are a waste of bandwidth. Who gives a shit,
> > statistically. If something is great everybody is going to use it, and
> > it's associated technical perveyours should make money signing autographs.
> >
> > 'Savior' is something Linux needs. The simple solution is for perveyours of
> > (Gentoo) linux to stop being 'bone-heads' and start being Entrepreneurs.
> > You make money, become affluent, you can write all the code and give it
> > to whatever cause you want. What the youth of this list do not realize is
> > their "Free time" combined with strong "programming skills" is capital.
> > use it wisely, and more capital will flow your way.
> >
> > Specifically, I work as an engineer, with machines, industrial processes,
> > communications, and too dam many lawyers and politicians. Machines on this
> > earth are mostly controlled by SCADA systems: Supervisor Controls And Data
> > Aquistion (sounds sexy huh?) Currenlty MicroSuck dominates the space, but,
> > it's lack of robust security, has created a huge vacuum, highlighted by
> > activities of 9/11. Futhermore in the near future, there will be at least
> > 100 machines (micro P with connnectivity) per humanoid and the gap will
> > only increase. AKA, the net of the future belongs to machines. Just look
> > at the number of peripherals (machines) we have today and the pending
> > explosion of every electro-mechanical device in your home, auto, work
> > and leisure activities, having 'connectivity' in the not too distant
> > future. Yet Linux lacks a robust open source SCADA plan. Many attemps
> > have been made, but, most have been diverted to the traditional business
> > model (come work for me and I'll give you a paycheck). Now is the time
> > to develop software so that all electrical devices can be seemlessly
> > managed and controlled. Whe have power over ethernet (802.af) and
> > ethernet over powerlines, not to mention Rf chipsets that are shockingly
> > low in price. The current vendor track is build a new device,
> > write new software, and add it to the thousands of applications that
> > exist. The future paradyne could be: Develop a robust Linux SCADA software
> > package, make money migrating industry and consumers to it, and write
> > device drivers for any product someone builds. That way the cost of
> > software development is born of the open source community, and local
> > entrepreneurs can spin hardware with local manufacturers to build
> > successful 'regional products'. Gentoos get new toys, many of which
> > are built by people they know....
> >
> > I have offered money to any young, talented person wanting to make
> > a name for themselves by championing the cause to develop an open source
> > SCADA system for (Gentoo) linux. No takers. none. Why? This could become
> > an excellent opportunity to teach software development, and migrate
> > the industrial world to Gentoo.
> >
> > Leads me to beleive that everyone has too much cash or are scared to 'step up'.
> > My programming skills have atrofied (like my spelling skills) over time.
> > Furthermore, I'd be most interested in installing this SCADA system somewhere
> > and generating attention as to what promise Gentoo holds for the future.
> > The more of an Entrepreneur I become the less time I have to stay current or
> > maintain my existing skill sets. Youth provides opportunity for greatness. I'm
> > willing to finance greatness. There is no greater need than to develop a
> > (Gentoo) based SCADA system. EVERYONE, except the commmercial SCADA vendors is
> > very, very tired of MicroSuck in the Industrial space....
> >
> > Then along comes this "Savior Thread" where folks are almost interested
> > in giving away their personal capital in the pursuit of foolishness.
> >
> > My answer to Savior Linux is "put the check into the mail, and I'll be
> > right there". But, I'm willing to send a check to someone that this list
> > agrees with, has the BALLS and BRAINS to build a SCADA software package
> > for Gentoo. I just want a licence that encourages entrepreneurial
> > implementation of the software, more akin to BSDishness..... That way
> > folks can build hardware, sell it in small volume, make a living,
> > and the greater gentoo community becomes greater, because we have
> > the newest/coolest hardware toys, and the software is part of a single,
> > very cool package that is easy to maintain. Under this scheme, developing
> > device drivers would become routine for Gentoo Folks. Hardware guys
> > could focus on hardware and gets their drivers for free!
> >
> > If you are unfamilar with SCADA:
> > http://www.comedi.org/doc
> > http://www.modcomp.com/scada/scada_app.html
> > http://www.rtaautomation.com/modbustcp
> > http://www.jffnms.org
> >
> > The rub is ( i use to love the rub: in engineering school that's where
> > some old, nasty bastard challenged the students to actually do something
> > with what we were learning)
> > video controls and display of video needs to be added to the SCADA software.
> > I think an open API for rapid addition of machines and hardware beyond
> > that of PLC (programmable logic controllers) is important too.
> > Think of it as SCADA on steroids.
> >
> > I'm not rich [(3) kids; beautiful, nagging wife and a boat in disrepair];
> > yet this is something that I'm will to spend my money on, for the
> > benfit of the wider Gentoo community.
> >
> > Any takers?
> >
> >
> > sincerely,
> > James Horton, PE
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Justin W. Hart
>
--
Justin W. Hart
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list