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Thu, 08 Dec 2022 15:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.8.12] ([107.179.20.164]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bk8-20020a05620a1a0800b006ee77f1ecc3sm3406972qkb.31.2022.12.08.15.09.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 08 Dec 2022 15:09:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <9407e524-2226-6ba9-dd7f-bac635d083e3@gmail.com> From: Dale Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=rdalek1967@gmail.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBGFSciYBEADcEGMyJBSuavKO/XKUVvgkxck7Nl8Iuu8N2lcnRji/rSKg5c1Acix1ll9i oW8JBCHwvn0+Xy60BvEsqcup3YSHw5STl/bR1ePEehtnYrg8FdjdS91+B805RfnKMm69rFVI wLSBHQrSG1yxHd8CloWoEdhmVtP24buajbh114bgXd9ahtpZrCVMrWdWYUg2mEXguGV5uNAh Rf8SWxDNc79w24JxsV34a8niMUYMjzWr0rafIbzk732X38vGjVMLo/2mMpkbp9mPp++LHoY+ 0Pet8zxxdXPJSCd475kza1AD+hhSyBZXB9yknYWgyY3cZe1rGmooJSi2KX4QxO7npwLThcO1 be6KKRkd35+Fi/a1BzVOHsZMiK/gcwxEFoMd27gir4ehaeHJfFXl+65w4hj0EsOZSxrJrm2C R50g5By2czSKP1bADEygFNpIJj51AR+wM88NImG2RPtlT2maYBzazvF05g65cdHXGp1C7W5P wwwKU2DgABB2t7N7z5A69LnryBRw4zUYDRRYLTYlBlYgg+xILm2c0OrBdxJgLJa7JE50Eo25 d3PFwt9J0gYvqy6sPFLl9So0sDg9zm0hKQtXOP5kgropUFGrNoJI+mjwF4rYLRBVzZwNAvlO OhEvHubBo3mEllv4x+FeptwXZxlk7gUsdqI8AxnFB8K9wi6FVQARAQABtBtEYWxlIDxyZGFs ZWsxOTY3QGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JAk4EEwEIADgCGyMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW IQQSG1h01ruv/WNXc3Q3RqOgiQH1GwUCYVJy8gAKCRA3RqOgiQH1G+waEACeTZCt77jnRAmQ AV7otKuZekDWiLi3Eig8tj5ZJiCNSYA/hIxzmexRP0GMqjitcXK1iGwWcvMzzvIq30GAjIfB 4BR38cnXbtBa6fNewiT7QaZe/Hn6yBRldXNQypzbHy+/o27bUEy+oX4rE7etUgEHQAjuw7xz XFWg4tH1/KJvsOVY5upnWc5LdxYhsuQ3dQD4b22GsK0pOBDfb9PiirYM8eGKvrVuq4E/c75z lDDFhINl18lNZ9D0ZFL3IkTjHsAAqFH9uhnnEB8CWdHbBewPEfRaOhBUYWZ3Q8uTkmDgZT8q D9jlvLEdw7Nh2ApdxoepnI/4D+ql2Gr4DtH7SEPydr5gcf1Qr/2bXRb1hAYnIVcbncs/Bm3Z bkRKPVWMfE3Fusa+p5hMzixk0YysMaTHlc7mYRYAEZGnPMXnmcCbetwARU7A0yz1M1kCMOAQ Lsz8KH5kv3cRenMB6SFfjND2JfAK61H5TtnPq3L8noS2ZykRYxq9Nm3X64O1tJojIKBoZFr8 AwYNCvqC6puUyGMuzHPh7jPof8glfrrEKIYUvNPGMDoVX3IGetxh/9l6NcxgFA4JGoR+LS3C zmeNrwlllAe3OEUfKoWVQ+pagpSdM+8hHolaSda4Ys66Z3fCR4ZvcTqfhTAVskpqdXa4isAk 7vTcXu3L499ttywEp7rJTbkCDQRhUnImARAAncUdVhmtRr59zqpTUppKroQYlzR0jv8oa7DG K4gakTAT2N7evnI9wpssmzyVk8VEiLzhnFQ/Ol3FRt6hZCXDJt0clyHOyTfvz/MNFttWuZTc mLpSvmRR6VRjAH+Tz3Eam2xUw3PGuH97BcXQ3NnX3msv1UDxtxxBu6e2YrdeOhrCUSgzokcJ 98ChUNy934cgepPybAI12lSWqVFQ1aG7jExZfiUk+333fPSDbpKoZbTW5YJLXbycmW/C1IWL qYQyNjRWKaGoJtUWFhhmNiOQct7n90aKivNVPavmN+UQ9LlMaINtf9T6XCzLfogCFsulDCDJ 0yNQLDTurHaB4E71xoctgXmLLq9z1RQ0W2XiVAAOZQj6K3+d0AOUjDhCQ2QW8dUSq0ckkZXV DKVJOGS8Nhf2eIWIqRnP3AcUiiaiFGqUaVUmUAZ6h/oJmgghEu/1S+pcuUKU5i69+XCZ3hH2 Jzwzbf7K+FAIkOhCfHncF8i1N1pk00pOVykNnqHTfFo3qFusHt0ZWgXVnnn4pYdXqZNoDhvF BRE5Vm4k/k96Pw8HRx6Os6eFSRrlqGzRgqsu86FekxusXB9UGv4lJhtU/J+8MRWsh22K718s DbQnABicGKFz1qQlWvcf59oTByhLINJCBt1WXl+TzJDXepr3QSkqmK41dO9Hob97C9dMiK8A EQEAAYkCNgQYAQgAIAIbDBYhBBIbWHTWu6/9Y1dzdDdGo6CJAfUbBQJhUnLyAAoJEDdGo6CJ AfUbVHIQAKSWw620vPhR3A/njU2z77F3z/Jk+HTKdE3fIyWSWdkYN7CBFL0NguOMP30WZ+qE sJhZu7T5hf251MwQUUt27xlfnKYOmQs7CqONlXuXlGZI6WufrUjxNcVz+5gJsqvUWuuJWsgg sDmE92IBnfG/f81fPHWQyfr/SF4wYDMyoFp5xCCQpp1zB63iuFvvrhxBkEHzmbRtVDOhl0Xp BVEDR1w3QRACw9QJD/KM05Czv9JNQYlwinWO/OaQ9cMlUpKLgswUPg9IZ5vucxScfuAUA5uC B1jlAQ8ZPlVukBmbEv5RGOv+lpuEbA3YDMVtEeH4YMFbjt/+vH3Cr2vTbp5JlpByLburJEH0 WXZLUawEfUsZvVwpOuJK75vaa2HYXee+Cb3iCIzwfIfctdlqzUcbGRczlRNM59hpvj4z29Gh 3kAxVHItAYq54ikxQ9l4hQ8s9sLYPbX/WtcBxNX8crBSw0FLnmzGleVEtBHyqtt5CLzQNgrj GYWl1vKDUmRPw1CdZ1c+fMN9CY11jOM5B5ZnqZWfDeVYO2iJ5SuvTycChexCb8WYn1bdCBIo bBtga2RBXbVt4Mh9E4owsszefn51MwfjXxB20Fc5k3GU1AVpTCMs3ayYCzo0b2pvEvdjtDcA CYLEFPWgaFX9iQAM/CDfKvTtvgGWpqtCL2raq/mQoJEU Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:09:51 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/68.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.14 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Archives-Salt: 5b12ca78-0528-40d6-b2eb-bc5c6168f465 X-Archives-Hash: b54ad0e68f2e3a068e002ef616419fe5 Wols Lists wrote: > On 08/12/2022 13:31, Mark Knecht wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 5:38 AM Dale > > wrote: >>  > >>  > Howdy, >>  > >>  > I've pretty much reached a limit on my backups.  I'm up to a 16TB >> hard >>  > drive for one and even that won't last long.  Larger drives are much >>  > more costly.  A must have NAS is quickly approaching.  I've been >>  > searching around and find some things confusing.  I'm hoping >> someone can >>  > clear up that confusion.  I'm also debating what path to travel down. >>  > I'd also like to keep costs down as well.  That said, I don't mind >>  > paying a little more for one that would offer a much better option. >>  > >>  > Path one, buy a NAS, possibly used, that has no drives.  If >> possible, I >>  > may even replace the OS that comes on it or upgrade if I can.  I'm >> not >>  > looking for fancy, or even RAID.  Just looking for a two bay NAS that >>  > will work.  First, what is a DAS?  Is that totally different than a >>  > NAS?  From what I've found, a DAS is not what I'm looking for since I >>  > want a ethernet connection and the ability to control things over the >>  > network.  It seems DAS lacks that feature but not real sure.  I'm not >>  > sure I can upgrade the software/OS on a DAS either. >>  > >>  > Next thing.  Let's say a NAS comes with two 4TB drives for a total of >>  > 8TB of capacity from the factory, using LVM or similar software I >>  > assume.  Is that limited to that capacity or can I for example >> replace >>  > one or both drives with for example 14TB drives for a total of >> 28TBs of >>  > capacity?  If one does that, let's say it uses LVM, can I somehow >> move >>  > data as well or is that beyond the abilities of a NAS?  Could it >> be done >>  > inside my computer for example?  Does this vary by brand or even >> model? >>  > >>  > Path two, I've researched building a NAS using a Raspberry Pi 4 >> 8GB as >>  > another option.  They come as parts, cases too, but the newer and >> faster >>  > models of Raspberry Pi 4 with more ram seem to work pretty well.  The >>  > old slower models with small amounts of ram don't fair as well.  >> While I >>  > want a descent speed, I'm not looking for or expecting it to be >>  > blazingly fast.  I just wonder, if from a upgrade and expansion >> point of >>  > view, if building a NAS would be better.  I've also noticed, it seems >>  > all Raspberry things come with a display port.  That means I could >> hook >>  > up a monitor and mouse/keyboard when needed.  That could be a bonus. >>  > Heck, I may can even put some sort of Gentoo on that thing.  :-D >>  > >>  > One reason I'm wanting to go this route, I'm trying to keep it >> small and >>  > able to fit inside my fire safe.  I plan to buy a media type safe >> that >>  > is larger but right now, it needs to fit inside my current safe.  >> Most >>  > of the 2 bay NAS or a Raspberry Pi based NAS are fairly small.  >> They not >>  > much bigger than the three external hard drives and a couple bare >> drives >>  > that currently occupy my safe. >>  > >>  > One thing I'd like to have no matter what path I go down, the >> ability to >>  > encrypt the data.  My current backup drives are encrypted and I'd >> like >>  > to keep it that way.  If that is possible to do.  I suspect the >>  > Raspberry option would since I'd control the OS/software placed on >> it. >>  > I could be wrong tho. >>  > >>  > One last thing.  Are there any NAS type boxes that I should >> absolutely >>  > avoid if I go that route?  Maybe it is a model that has serious >>  > limitations or has other problems.  I think the DAS thing may be >> one for >>  > me to avoid but I'm not for sure what limits it has.  Google >> didn't help >>  > a lot. It also could be as simple as, avoid any model that says >> this in >>  > the description or uses some type of software that is bad or limits >>  > options. >>  > >>  > Thoughts?  Info to share?  Ideas on a best path forward?  Buy already >>  > built or build? >>  > >>  > Thanks. >>  > >>  > Dale >>  > >>  > :-)  :-) >> >> DAS is direct-attached-storage. I don't think you want that. > > Depends. If it fits in the safe, and can be connected using one of > these eSATA thingy connectors, it might be a very good choice. >> >> Synology (sp?) is sort of a big name in home & small office NAS >> boxes. You can buy the boxes with or without drives. I suspect you >> won't like the prices. > > I've been looking :-) I think the empty box costs more than the drives > you're going to put in it ... >> >> I wonder if you might consider what data on your backups needs to be >> immediately available and which doesn't. Possibly buy an 8TB USB >> drive, take a bunch of the lower priority data off of your current >> backup thus system freeing space and move on from there? >> >> I built my NAS devices using old computers ala Wol's suggestion to me >> maybe a year ago. They work for me but don't have the fastest network >> interfaces. >> > I get the impression Dale isn't actually PLANNING his disk storage. > It's just a case of "help I'm downloading all this stuff where do I > put it!!!" > > How much storage do you have in your actual computer? How much space > do you need IN ONE PARTITION? Can you get an external disk caddy that > you just slot bare drives in? > > I've no doubt you have good reason for wanting all this storage. I > just fail to see why you need huge drives for it if most of the time > you're not doing anything with it. > > Get yourself a basic 4-way DAS/JBOD setup, PLAN where you're putting > all this stuff, and plug in and remove drives as required. You don't > need all these huge drives if you think about what you're going to do > with it all. (And while it takes time and hammers the system, I > regularly record off the TV getting a 2GB .ts file, convert it to mp4 > - same resolution - and reduce the size by an order of magnitude - > maybe more. > > If you've got two hot-swap JBOD enclosures, that's brilliant. You can > stream from your media centre to a drive, swap it out, and use a > second system to then organise your collection. > > Oh - and if you are worried about disks going walkabout, just LUKS the > whole disk, and without the key nobody can read it ... build your > partitions or whatever over it. > > Cheers, > Wol > > > Getting some good info from different folks.  Picking this to reply to, last message I read.  I do have a lot of data in my system.  I need the info at random plus want to keep a backup copy.  If for no other reason, in case I accidentally delete or overwrite something.  I've done that before.  I also want backups in case of a sudden drive failure without warning.  This is about my backup copy, not the drives in my system that I regularly use.  I have a large Cooler Master HAF-932 case.  I still got room there.  I may at some point build a NAS for regular storage and everyday use.  While I would like something power efficient and able to scale for that, I think a 2 bay, certainly a 4 bay, NAS will give me plenty of room to grow for my backups.  A NAS for everyday use tho, that's for another day.  I kinda like my current setup except that one large directory, it's to big for a single external hard drive.  I need to span that data over two or more drives.  That means either a NAS of some sort or another system.  Since any system I build from old parts I have laying around would be to large, a NAS is the best long term route.  I mentioned before, I wish I could split my backup script so that about half of the data goes to one drive and the other half to a 2nd drive.  If I knew of a way to tell rsync to split files starting with 'a' through 'k' to one drive and files starting with 'm' through 'z' to the second drive, then I could span across two drives without needing LVM or similar software.  I'm not aware of a way to do that without a ton of work and having to update my scripts each time I add or remove a directory within the larger directory.  Some of this is sort of hard to put into text unless I write half a book about it.  Basically, I'm needing a way to have external drives with enough capacity to hold a large directory.  Also some room for growth and even upgrades would be nice.  Whether I buy a prebuilt NAS or build one, whichever is the better option and affordable. Since I forgot to hit send after typing the above, I've got more replies to read.  Dale :-)  :-)