Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com>]

Wols Lists wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 13:31, Mark Knecht wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 5:38 AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com
>> <mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  >
>>  > Howdy,
>>  >
>>  > I've pretty much reached a limit on my backups.  I'm up to a 16TB
>> hard
>>  > drive for one and even that won't last long.  Larger drives are much
>>  > more costly.  A must have NAS is quickly approaching.  I've been
>>  > searching around and find some things confusing.  I'm hoping
>> someone can
>>  > clear up that confusion.  I'm also debating what path to travel down.
>>  > I'd also like to keep costs down as well.  That said, I don't mind
>>  > paying a little more for one that would offer a much better option.
>>  >
>>  > Path one, buy a NAS, possibly used, that has no drives.  If
>> possible, I
>>  > may even replace the OS that comes on it or upgrade if I can.  I'm
>> not
>>  > looking for fancy, or even RAID.  Just looking for a two bay NAS that
>>  > will work.  First, what is a DAS?  Is that totally different than a
>>  > NAS?  From what I've found, a DAS is not what I'm looking for since I
>>  > want a ethernet connection and the ability to control things over the
>>  > network.  It seems DAS lacks that feature but not real sure.  I'm not
>>  > sure I can upgrade the software/OS on a DAS either.
>>  >
>>  > Next thing.  Let's say a NAS comes with two 4TB drives for a total of
>>  > 8TB of capacity from the factory, using LVM or similar software I
>>  > assume.  Is that limited to that capacity or can I for example
>> replace
>>  > one or both drives with for example 14TB drives for a total of
>> 28TBs of
>>  > capacity?  If one does that, let's say it uses LVM, can I somehow
>> move
>>  > data as well or is that beyond the abilities of a NAS?  Could it
>> be done
>>  > inside my computer for example?  Does this vary by brand or even
>> model?
>>  >
>>  > Path two, I've researched building a NAS using a Raspberry Pi 4
>> 8GB as
>>  > another option.  They come as parts, cases too, but the newer and
>> faster
>>  > models of Raspberry Pi 4 with more ram seem to work pretty well.  The
>>  > old slower models with small amounts of ram don't fair as well. 
>> While I
>>  > want a descent speed, I'm not looking for or expecting it to be
>>  > blazingly fast.  I just wonder, if from a upgrade and expansion
>> point of
>>  > view, if building a NAS would be better.  I've also noticed, it seems
>>  > all Raspberry things come with a display port.  That means I could
>> hook
>>  > up a monitor and mouse/keyboard when needed.  That could be a bonus.
>>  > Heck, I may can even put some sort of Gentoo on that thing.  :-D
>>  >
>>  > One reason I'm wanting to go this route, I'm trying to keep it
>> small and
>>  > able to fit inside my fire safe.  I plan to buy a media type safe
>> that
>>  > is larger but right now, it needs to fit inside my current safe. 
>> Most
>>  > of the 2 bay NAS or a Raspberry Pi based NAS are fairly small. 
>> They not
>>  > much bigger than the three external hard drives and a couple bare
>> drives
>>  > that currently occupy my safe.
>>  >
>>  > One thing I'd like to have no matter what path I go down, the
>> ability to
>>  > encrypt the data.  My current backup drives are encrypted and I'd
>> like
>>  > to keep it that way.  If that is possible to do.  I suspect the
>>  > Raspberry option would since I'd control the OS/software placed on
>> it.
>>  > I could be wrong tho.
>>  >
>>  > One last thing.  Are there any NAS type boxes that I should
>> absolutely
>>  > avoid if I go that route?  Maybe it is a model that has serious
>>  > limitations or has other problems.  I think the DAS thing may be
>> one for
>>  > me to avoid but I'm not for sure what limits it has.  Google
>> didn't help
>>  > a lot. It also could be as simple as, avoid any model that says
>> this in
>>  > the description or uses some type of software that is bad or limits
>>  > options.
>>  >
>>  > Thoughts?  Info to share?  Ideas on a best path forward?  Buy already
>>  > built or build?
>>  >
>>  > Thanks.
>>  >
>>  > Dale
>>  >
>>  > :-)  :-)
>>
>> DAS is direct-attached-storage. I don't think you want that.
>
> Depends. If it fits in the safe, and can be connected using one of
> these eSATA thingy connectors, it might be a very good choice.
>>
>> Synology (sp?) is sort of a big name in home & small office NAS
>> boxes. You can buy the boxes with or without drives. I suspect you
>> won't like the prices.
>
> I've been looking :-) I think the empty box costs more than the drives
> you're going to put in it ...
>>
>> I wonder if you might consider what data on your backups needs to be
>> immediately available and which doesn't. Possibly buy an 8TB USB
>> drive, take a bunch of the lower priority data off of your current
>> backup thus system freeing space and move on from there?
>>
>> I built my NAS devices using old computers ala Wol's suggestion to me
>> maybe a year ago. They work for me but don't have the fastest network
>> interfaces.
>>
> I get the impression Dale isn't actually PLANNING his disk storage.
> It's just a case of "help I'm downloading all this stuff where do I
> put it!!!"
>
> How much storage do you have in your actual computer? How much space
> do you need IN ONE PARTITION? Can you get an external disk caddy that
> you just slot bare drives in?
>
> I've no doubt you have good reason for wanting all this storage. I
> just fail to see why you need huge drives for it if most of the time
> you're not doing anything with it.
>
> Get yourself a basic 4-way DAS/JBOD setup, PLAN where you're putting
> all this stuff, and plug in and remove drives as required. You don't
> need all these huge drives if you think about what you're going to do
> with it all. (And while it takes time and hammers the system, I
> regularly record off the TV getting a 2GB .ts file, convert it to mp4
> - same resolution - and reduce the size by an order of magnitude -
> maybe more.
>
> If you've got two hot-swap JBOD enclosures, that's brilliant. You can
> stream from your media centre to a drive, swap it out, and use a
> second system to then organise your collection.
>
> Oh - and if you are worried about disks going walkabout, just LUKS the
> whole disk, and without the key nobody can read it ... build your
> partitions or whatever over it.
>
> Cheers,
> Wol
>
>
>

Getting some good info from different folks.  Picking this to reply to,
last message I read.  I do have a lot of data in my system.  I need the
info at random plus want to keep a backup copy.  If for no other reason,
in case I accidentally delete or overwrite something.  I've done that
before.  I also want backups in case of a sudden drive failure without
warning.  This is about my backup copy, not the drives in my system that
I regularly use.  I have a large Cooler Master HAF-932 case.  I still
got room there.  I may at some point build a NAS for regular storage and
everyday use.  While I would like something power efficient and able to
scale for that, I think a 2 bay, certainly a 4 bay, NAS will give me
plenty of room to grow for my backups.  A NAS for everyday use tho,
that's for another day. 

I kinda like my current setup except that one large directory, it's to
big for a single external hard drive.  I need to span that data over two
or more drives.  That means either a NAS of some sort or another
system.  Since any system I build from old parts I have laying around
would be to large, a NAS is the best long term route.  I mentioned
before, I wish I could split my backup script so that about half of the
data goes to one drive and the other half to a 2nd drive.  If I knew of
a way to tell rsync to split files starting with 'a' through 'k' to one
drive and files starting with 'm' through 'z' to the second drive, then
I could span across two drives without needing LVM or similar software. 
I'm not aware of a way to do that without a ton of work and having to
update my scripts each time I add or remove a directory within the
larger directory. 

Some of this is sort of hard to put into text unless I write half a book
about it.  Basically, I'm needing a way to have external drives with
enough capacity to hold a large directory.  Also some room for growth
and even upgrades would be nice.  Whether I buy a prebuilt NAS or build
one, whichever is the better option and affordable.

Since I forgot to hit send after typing the above, I've got more replies
to read. 

Dale

:-)  :-)