From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 093CC139085 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 18:11:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CD2EE234033; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 18:10:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wj0-x242.google.com (mail-wj0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c01::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A04723400D for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 18:10:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wj0-x242.google.com with SMTP id j10so28843818wjb.3 for ; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 10:10:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vid6wITtYZdl5wrEpQr2HdxJ2ZLkCRzkptYQ2LJUn1I=; b=NVah5Kbvzu6c4elPKVDYAUCMSIt8+VG5DLxxBtpvsviFW93Lt/rMp60ObPVHwgk8Wm xnodsOPwAsyOfGRDwnHHzKIsoAPafRS1SVXHvnpYB+J05BqJKKCRNPhwYOSErBB47hvJ 4+kMvfQl5wD10gr1uQKB2P5+DPw+9BZqxoVZEezivWfTGUy6CEzLT6Dp9ePczI0kJirv pSfMM1UtzFWtLB65nOJmlu11nZWf0t93gDwngJwvlh47UXcMItkeX9tYZ4j4x5QI9LSb C/KnDbH7DoT8/dlSzKBbIb4t4bjWwhik1mUHmrul4bSxMu/du9lkILtGZcEhjAJbljQT f/iw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vid6wITtYZdl5wrEpQr2HdxJ2ZLkCRzkptYQ2LJUn1I=; b=DIMwoqHbUVjUnMz66FwpYCc7P9897LRRBvDhsZnNmbvfeex6vWhH5BjUrVE4I5/eTR ZdB/q1Js+StTqmx633uETReNEHEqyKxB2utQE76xJ0e2tgYMI1x2wujlxp9pz1pQ75wk CjQA7X2P/vJszUiRjmgx2QL9PzKz86O/WwRFSc0nf507zSUkWG2jfNzohwr1bdJZzOQ1 6vgYa8+947ssGUhJS6y1LGzSfoGJRhrF/LZgtExo/OCT8rTuvJ8mC7Vj6nu7qjEHygrg o3zFRwL6oc5zt5C+y7wl6rA4Hj9+NBygTlE7p2Zhk1sDdUymSaJ2DbdS9eDlGCrWOvp7 GIng== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXLjOGLZKQAyHYACHhgmlN41ziiW3LYrN4RuECcv+s6e79mvfcaHkFgMMGqM7o40DA== X-Received: by 10.194.57.180 with SMTP id j20mr483358wjq.165.1482257431888; Tue, 20 Dec 2016 10:10:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.0.40] ([196.212.62.210]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id i10sm26766984wjd.15.2016.12.20.10.10.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Dec 2016 10:10:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <20161015182743.GB4541@solfire> <20161216101951.GA29887@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161216131315.GA4052@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161216165118.GA26704@g0n.xdwgrp> <20161217055520.GA13608@waltdnes.org> <87pokn23ai.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> <4c7138ac-cbd2-c60f-2a86-bb7e41e9d6fb@gmail.com> <87r353zmfs.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> <13e62428-6ad9-2efa-0f0c-84c4cd7fd0ac@andrejro.de> <87shpjxod9.fsf@heimdali.yagibdah.de> <2748e68f-59c1-e7f3-eec4-858773acbdb9@andrejro.de> <3bf0f4ef-79d1-401b-cdd3-948c13f12f2a@baums-on-web.de> From: Alan McKinnon Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2016 20:08:28 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.5.1 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archives-Salt: 07e18a3f-2882-419d-be61-b1dbe971e5ff X-Archives-Hash: 1203619a5dce27c420bad5fc466d14bc On 20/12/2016 19:50, Heiko Baums wrote: > Am 20.12.2016 um 18:38 schrieb Kai Peter: >> Maybe there are different opinions, but what is cryptic on - as a >> typical one - enp3s0?: >> e - ethernet >> n - network >> p - pci (port) ... >> 3 - ... 3 >> s - slot ... >> 0 - ... 0 > > Think about that yourself again and compare it to - eth0: > > eth - ethernet > 0 - 1st card No. This is incorrect. eth0 is the first card found by software, and not always the one you think it is. Off the top of my head, a few examples of how this can be a problem: - pull and reseat nic cards in a server, junior flunky who does it forgets which card went where and puts them back in the wrong slots - an update to PCI code does discovery ever so sightly differently - plug in a USB wireless or wired nic, can you absolutely *guarantee* that any kernel will *always* find a PCI nic before a USB one? - virtualized servers, where I can (and very much do) add, remove and edit virtual nics all the time. Now which one is the first? So yes, eth0 is far easier for humans to remember, it's also a fragile solution. On a desktop with only one nic all the above problems never happen. But Linux desktops and single-nic servers are not the target market for Linux, and hasn't been for a very long time. The real target is virtual machines, big iron, and embedded devices plus Android. Oddly enough, my 200+ FreeBSD machines all tend to use a naming convention like enp3s0? for nics and disks. Doesn't cause any issues in that world. In all these threads you participate in recently, I'm not seeing any actual real facts from you, or specifics. All I see is you howling (louder than Poetering!) on the other end of an email address about how you don't like changes that are happening. Actually, I think you don't have much clue about the real world and what it takes to run real fleets of machines. So my advice to you is to put up, or shut up. > > I don't think I need to explain which of both is a lot more complicated > and cryptic. > >> Just an example. The real mess with systemd is that it violates the good >> ol' Unix culture. Especially by "capturing" udev. Thanks to Gentoo for >> eudev!!! > > That's also true but not the only problem with systemd. > > Heiko Baums > -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon@gmail.com