From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E069F15864F for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2023 12:54:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BEC04E08E0; Mon, 27 Mar 2023 12:54:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E817E0891 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2023 12:54:31 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1679921668; i=warp_7@gmx.de; bh=oS7jUZvZiEGIlqDjxcNu0bs//uxHahetcwEodfVt+UY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=mC1B2nK94dK31Fa1n1gREIp2h7wz2Nt5oGdqefRT5pN0jigyqkHFX01fWQBThY5dJ FY2Br0qhF7/hACmlu4wiqSJ3vrhDeAk6tNULNEnExdFkdfuZnf+ibcZcnGkHR8GMA4 v0bD4UGfyRRk5WOPS/DtI+hgD7YVAwsfRUdqCZl5vK+UX4c/PSN5/PjESrXzC1mwgQ sGZTFlfGYajvOjYydspVH6coHfL5HZCqXmjWi8e80WnJwUt2eDf4JNn39gJJkAjJ0A WM+Ax4WXH7FEHAE0gyTEZk72TBjYal0Er5fq+I5imxQvzw59TP435eFZmPo+imayrm ssswJasQJDDLQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from moby ([92.117.40.108]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MEFzx-1pYqQA3Q3R-00AHOz for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2023 14:54:27 +0200 Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2023 14:54:26 +0200 From: Frank Steinmetzger To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe x1 or PCIe x4 SATA controller card Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <5d324904-4d4d-a02c-4a8a-cd985b170df6@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="m9XaDyjsPCIckKHq" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt 2.2.9; VIM - Vi IMproved 9.0 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:A0vAxYQVQCTX/67GogyUoEbPvffbpbETE4pbEG0LSMAGabkheBW ugmw+yTLPVUnw4/vNOL5SeemJFltQQTbagONa0jxr5uQ+yaE52eJLHfiV3Gn1jlBFAzpDze /g0S6AxoXKZSV4PBX1c8EnWOaviHulWpBh1SRMnMgCW5DeBJRzgJTKtaIAuBYNwwa2fRmgL uaFko7PQwiboyuxUFW3qQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:x1qIhmx4iSc=;LyKlsDFj/fm7T42Uio56ZxNymmy xn3fMtQ7NiSn5uwgLoGsL9NKXvL29U18hw+oOuW3nxj9e1PHUmK5T8uXgomIJqgL7QfdeuoNZ UFpCjd6wSbNo2chxM0C1NALWqYFABVLrJgEmgVqVAxH+Oyj5lZnsPAogJwQz58ojvG/yBlm1R JOauHtNWfr9bjL0MsseaUgmrnRg8KPJuQLwkaDiyhPKvXpMSkYwhCKJl5eyvU8aUbbA7E8HQw HbLgrlZiOX95uoHJRFAdlJJoiHYu69OeXvAmHkNP/eovEH73YJAMDP3BeNNXUZWDtejz5XD0h gt9R7DYjy3fahranRqaPIO2JS5Slsz1TACMsItvMqcP+cCSY3FnUUaUfob7k3l3SgADluK4gP bOuwbhTPUcnBET72G/AEPjCcSlpCmgfxCzeY/WEBaLXH7YqOxyzbM6nhe1axHY0K7z3wHjiBI ZsYdXGS5ldSVHbPGX2kI5UdOYKmYSO5AOo7KwFQqUhx+8PXJVy+7aiCr4k/RPWPKRJnP7sn+1 2Pzq+abHzjfWlBw/kouts5WUzcPVQ7EvEv2zKn9+Rn01nKfMAwqQRVY/+6Z0Xretm8y2TjMxt ha5wlo3iLoNkdNI8s9QnSruEZEF61urIrbbUWsFXBtfzykkajjWkTxULjcfH3W+QSmlfj4sZj AaiKBpyFGjhRZJl485DxMwlJz/LDsLh1VWNfgySgDX6eAmi4zlEGxc/I17rJpCai+aofhqdpP Z6vhQfqr4q6zRX/S9TfpDBKas1TdTwuHHFRbS3i0g//BbwUWXi8Xn9bDxlXFjyjVelgFfQoqP 2kivvdVtPfEOGVwD6pMnhI2rmcFHTJYYWTrSgUeGpYrQ3owf0rtYYCe3j+zbqFoYX5mZayXIZ 7/7MaGVfNVjh6cL1xL5SE8QTrKBeb/zW5jBjh+fJeigKJ0dlqVJeX341wWnpiyhUKwVWbHRzO cBNBQIvviljp9eS3jXXQ9sAtsf8= X-Archives-Salt: 3a783298-495f-480c-be74-9aca414b627f X-Archives-Hash: 263fa654645d4d34078a173dc42965ec --m9XaDyjsPCIckKHq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 07:24:47AM -0400 schrieb Rich Freeman: > > Of course, only you can answer that in the end. Write down what you nee= d and > > what you care about. Weigh those factors. Then decide. Raw CPU power, > > electricity bill, heat budget (cooling, noise, dust), the =E2=80=9Cnew = and shiny=E2=80=9D > > factor (like DDR5), and price. As I mentioned earlier, the 7xxx-X serie= s are > > hotheads. But when run with a lower power budget, they are very efficie= nt > > (which is basically what the non-X do). >=20 > Are they actually hotheads on an energy consumed per unit of work > basis? As you say, they're efficient. If the CPU has 2x the power > draw, but does 2.5x as much work in a unit of time than the "cooler" > CPU you're comparing it to, then actually doing any job is going to > consume less electricity and produce less heat - it is just doing it > faster. > [=E2=80=A6]=20 > A recent trend is upping the power draw of CPUs/GPUs to increase their > throughput, but as long as efficiency remains the same, it creates > some thermal headaches, but doesn't actually make the systems use more > energy for a given amount of work. Of course if you throw more work > at them then they use more energy. Back in the day, CPUs were sold to run at an optimum work point, meaning a= =20 compromise between silicon wafer yield, power consumption and performance.= =20 Some of the chips were so good, they had the potential for overclocking,=20 meaning they are stable enough to be clocked higher and to handle the heat.= =20 (But at no guarantee from the manufacturer, I presume. So if you grill it,= =20 it=E2=80=99s your loss.) And heat there was: you could increase a CPU from = 4 GHz to=20 4.4 GHz (10 % increase), but at a lot more power draw than just 10 %. The= =20 performance curve flattens at the high end; processing power does not scale= =20 linearly with power consumption beyond a certain point (else we would do it= =20 already). These days, modern high-end CPUs seem to come over-clocked from the factory= =2E=20 Instead, if the user wants to run at a more efficient mode, the BIOS offers= =20 ways to tune down the power budget. You lose 10..20 % in performance, but= =20 gain 20 K in cooling and 30 % or more in power consumption. 10 years ago, when the very efficient Core architecture swept the market,= =20 the high-end =E2=80=9Cextreme=E2=80=9D Haswell models drew 140 W. [0] Comar= e that to current=20 generations [1] (Intel) or [2] (AMD), those go beyond 200 W. Of course they= =20 are much much faster, but average-Joe doesn=E2=80=99t need that. Looking at concrete examples, the Ryzen 7900 has 3.7 GHz sustained max=20 frequency (meaning no thermal throttling) at 65 W. The 7900X has 4.7 GHz (a= =20 quarter more) and 200 MHz more boost frequency, but is rated at 2=C2=BD tim= es the=20 wattage. The TDP does not tell you how much power the chip takes at most=20 anymore (it can actually take much more in bursts or when it is still cool)= ,=20 but for how much thermal energy the cooling system needs to be designed in= =20 order to keep up the maximum (non-turbo, I think) frequency under load. Thi= s=20 means that for a short time or on a low number of cores, the non-X can=20 sustain almost as much boost clock as the X (it is the same silicon, after= =20 all), but once the cooling can=E2=80=99t keep up, it will throttle. I=E2=80=99m not very good at explaining the math or providing hard numbers = =66rom=20 memory, because all I know about this matter is from reading the occasional= =20 review. So please have a read yourself (see below). Another reason to take= =20 my word with a grain of salt: I am biased towards environmentally friendly= =20 choices. Power may still be cheap where you live, but every kWh produced ha= s=20 an impact on the globe. Power efficiency (=E2=80=9Cpoints per Watt=E2=80=9D metric): https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7900x/24.html Ryzen 7 5700G (i.e. laptop APU): 240.7 points Ryzen 7 5700X: 84.5 Ryzen 7 7700X: 83.0 Ryzen 9 7900X: 47.2 at stock (meaning no down-scaling) A comparison at https://www.xda-developers.com/amd-ryzen-9-7900-review/=20 shows only around 10 % more performance for the 7900X vs. the 7900: =E2=80=9CThe Ryzen 9 7900 is essentially the 7900X without PBO enabled, b= ut it=20 would be a waste to spend more money on essentially the same chip to then= =20 underclock it for better thermal performance. It's a better value choice= =20 to pick up the Ryzen 9 7900 and then boost up to 7900X-level performance= =20 through a simple BIOS toggle. After this has been carried out, performanc= e=20 is pretty much identical.=E2=80=9D Some more reading fodder: https://www.anandtech.com/show/18693/the-amd-ryzen-9-7900-ryzen-7-7700-and-= ryzen-5-5-7600-review-ryzen-7000-at-65-w-zen-4-efficiency [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alder_Lake [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_4 --=20 Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe | Greetings | Qapla=E2=80=99 Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. =E2=80=9CIf privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy.=E2=80=9D = =E2=80=93 Phil Zimmermann --m9XaDyjsPCIckKHq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEVbE9o2D2lE5fhoVsizG+tUDUMMoFAmQhkgAACgkQizG+tUDU MMovSw//deUIk9eGGKzuXbYGBH6Em43zxuNv5D9FrSi+eVXhDdEW+ivRW/zimnQF 4vceE0VQ3D61L2tKfydNH27Z76+xl0b+XACechmD87X/My3CV+jbcoGtIp4hdaZ4 1sDs5j0/nPZ4noZ1OQT+IzuSOVn/HWhh2oa4d4p+zvcYTkMSZC+5CswD8lMbKcle C6OzczQ+8ztp7N/wJEJKBTO344c2GRrKMTi0Yzx/B1X9FOu6BAFsMlA/dcJFvTdQ 1ZVegJSVkXaJia0q/qr981COL0dslyPZU6OG1SJ0QD3bjODyqTFJYZaksZmycjPG eB/NViAo9t+kmq4LlLgXMA0gKlvx6Q6K8qHkTgpcrxwVGtUMIFPhAI33KAY86s9y aXJdAvJO79Z1ycma/ritI8985VOqRfMiqNkSMS34cfY81ELeQftCwqXwwkps6ekN rIL0Z0O5QbH9WWoowpwt7K945jtJTj4qsd2BWFXZjeBPYpBkb9+xl8TIx2FT0071 jt3+CW4JRQtGEu8vM5cKsLVU65wRHMGwihde3YUu/TChQj/f/1Wc6PmQ47P1FbXj lEtCfDysqOOsuTX4i/zlN4w696c/r9L/gdLgzanpl1klpco07/mSqnx7pZJgIEBI 938sjMHQLzx/+RYuydYN6HnrLYNxcwKMCBsIXXkH2f3vV48oCuA= =QXYE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --m9XaDyjsPCIckKHq--