From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E605815A7D9 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:04:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 667BEE0788; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:03:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACD01E070D for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:03:55 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1678917826; i=warp_7@gmx.de; bh=6e0/WpBsfyGI9NWswgzVlP4o7afQ4oK5qrjDwuW9V7Q=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=ui4r/w2eaR7jYcTIQonAQNIq7uB6xsOCfS7euKE6ECzyXfEu1dHqaisMQltq/xVHO 1YzJlihQIQGsFCR79psnO9oSwAacFKkxjjsJf4rdqChWXGz08MYua5D4PGLYC8zl+9 c0KK5tRaqgw0yOmtzMZhSkaAUIJ/+oz6NKPFWCG65Ois+8PT/IARKAO5zXK1ZOkq/s lJh4zbLtu+IY34Ne8mNSyH+N2VlXBd75FFJM4RjkNOPAlLIPPG+sDx6leI6aktmBQ/ 8ppuGIZ8mSE8IEv3eJDdOHRJ0aMqt7c0wWh5MFSY1NdK6O5ArZ74UjbPok0+8A44Pr hCgsbWpu1a7ZA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from kern ([92.117.32.204]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MQ5rO-1ppiMM3CXw-00M7Op for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 23:03:46 +0100 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 23:03:45 +0100 From: Frank Steinmetzger To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] PCIe x1 or PCIe x4 SATA controller card Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <57322874-e9c0-2f2c-8994-43438fe72995@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="qisQmfzANA+zci2k" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt 2.2.9; VIM - Vi IMproved 9.0 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:vJtBtugJLxQBUQ9+9hQLYGkhHKPafMIFHLMTLHqXY0ZatMWJzVt RCFnFUXwGV0O4TpDxZSDnjl2q0BmoHzjP7oBafVDJ7mi6DdPKqz/GVkQJPQWKBgiM7NdoP+ N6SmsU0tIL/L71Ye81MsVo3zNfg8cNjj2JpuEa2fAufQ4Hv40QxCpwgYtPKK6qpx4DtCS63 llTz1VmIVNZ/VZkZ9FKWg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:Z5tMTY6AnDI=;mapjqhXEinTsHR7Rznk2sLqQz7k BErbWNgO+MyGit5lcOrKTJ4obloVA+NP4kk47UN1EoPhnaEgjNMR7bQgTisJB10VVGdDdJacb Atj8myqsvo1QDruP4Uz6D+/eCPU+QGO2tjxxG9HKtv/X05GH+ErqJQIIIWsQuN4DMTYVu/03S UYOkauMwuzW6FznWths+S025gioSZUHRDiDHqqVS26huyMLC0KQ+aYFuLgQNRGIi0bF2n+Ujz A96jvW0xXCGrtXsF1z+qkGVfgYGUiD+dbbAJJwImuuHKgQP4LCejNjr/DWOp909GUExVtwP65 imLf1VgSR5lOlYWK2ZcObnXICUT5ghXwHaBn5wZCZqxPG60Vof3+dQIyHG/w+WZTl8ydzEt3w qmpFAS+7p64715gprz5gIQRuMMkl/fST2A4lVEcPGeKhMrv5cPA4JixomaTT2uEKFuPS6UAJ+ BcdmjhdNbyj3Kk5Ln2wcclor9hC3I2r9ZVjm9lu9eMRwg1W9g7kLbxg8eM7uRncMrE23tRN59 u1YZfhYimagWv1gXXlCJBmy2OSn/bA0oIUdbGMxpmFFBh/zFWeFnfWlwxLB3U0TDckjHqx5Dx CK0RLnI5dLne4fF0jf5pk74X1/TiwAp+fP9nE7vtboqjxAtM9FjELByBgJDw5VwPakaoBlvVx 34QVNpkKNpkS2fzFQHZPG1Mg/WbXfG+Ur3OXh3wMfKoAZd1B5OFYl+g1OQ5EhXYbLCv3QvwAm ObubdxftkTRUZ8PZapFw7c8AP7AqBIcCMGoj2HLzUbdmKtsUozA/RWbp6uuEpv5x8EyHysw0T EW4xsK6DxyZQdzpeQF40CoKkfdX66hQyR5mQaM2DsghrmoFXv9L8L13xcH7Q63xiM/4pwlflu 1zO67NEJrqHb9eqN+RAMeKGOirxrEVPqjaC9IWkz7yHxsvrXjUZS8cLbR/OlZJDDmKuDZNw3c A9LwCC9FrO3q+0atrg05nerUkqs= X-Archives-Salt: 42af98f7-5ff6-401d-bd4c-3ec0711c824e X-Archives-Hash: 146705c79738eb8558500834ec97dfb7 --qisQmfzANA+zci2k Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 07:45:25AM -0500 schrieb Dale: > Mark Knecht wrote: > > > Another question.=C2=A0 My rig is getting a bit aged.=C2=A0 I have a = AMD FX-8350 8 > > > core CPU running at 4GHz.=C2=A0 I also have 32GBs of memory.=C2=A0 I'= ve read that > > > Intel currently has the best bang for buck on CPUs nowadays.=C2=A0 I'= m open > > > to the idea of switching.=C2=A0 As far as speed goes, if I built a ne= w rig > > > that is using a reasonably cost CPU and memory, would I see any real > > > improvements? > > > > I think it all depends on what you're going to use the machine for and > > whether you really use all your CPU for extended periods of time.=C2=A0 This! My mini PC with its passive 10 W Celeron N5100 is enough for desktop= =20 use, including encrypted storage. But maybe not for Gentoo. :) > > [=E2=80=A6] > > PixInsight has a benchmark program built in and all the results > > are open to look at: > > > > https://pixinsight.com/benchmark/index.php?sort=3Dcpu&os=3Dall > > > > Interestingly I didn't find your processor even on the list That=E2=80=99s probably because the FX processors are ooooold. Old and hung= ry. ^^ > Sometimes a CPU that costs $500 can only be just a fraction faster than a= =20 > $200 CPU. That=E2=80=99s still the case today for those impatient gamer enthusiasts w= ho are=20 after the =E2=80=9Clongest bars=E2=80=9D [in benchmarks]. The same goes for= power=20 consumption. With Zen 4, AMD of course launched the fastest X-processors=20 first with a gargantuan power demand. A few months later the non-X were=20 released. They used 40 % or so less power at a performance cost of maybe 10= =20 % (not actual numbers, but figuratively speaking from memory). > Given that my rig, as you point > out, sits here and waits on me to do something most of the time, that's > a lot of money for something I won't see much time savings on.=C2=A0 I mi= ght > add tho, I do sometimes convert videos from 1080p to 720p.=C2=A0 That mak= es > the CPU max out pretty good.=C2=A0 Compiling Libreoffice, Firefox etc also > maxes out the CPU but those are what, once a month or so??? Intel and AMD are giving themselves quite a race these days about who offer= s=20 more bang for the buck, or rather, more bang. In the past, Intel used to=20 have more to offer at the lower end (below 100 =E2=82=AC CPUs, like Pentium= s and=20 i3=E2=80=99s, while AMD was milking the market with high-end chips due to t= heir=20 limited manufacturing capacities). If you want to save money and aim for a low-cost AMD APU (processor with=20 integrated graphics), you can get an older 3000-series Ryzen for a two-digi= t=20 price. It=E2=80=99ll still be much faster than your old FX at a fraction of= the=20 power consumption. Like the 4300G, which is twice as fast for half the=20 electricity. With today=E2=80=99s processors, basically none of the socktet= able=20 models are too slow unless you have specific performance requirements. With each generation, the architecture becomes more efficient, meaning more= =20 instructions per cycle, lower consumption and so on. The max frequency is= =20 not really the driving force behind performance increase anymore due to=20 efficiency issues at higher frequencies. Here are some benchmark comparisons from cpubenchmark.net: Processor year power cores single-core score multi-core score FX-8350 2012 125 W 8/8 1580 6026 i5-4590 2014 84 W 4/4 2086 5356 i5-10400 2020 65 W 6/12 2580 12258 R3 4300G 2020 65 W 4/8 2557 11017 R5 5600G 2021 65 W 6/12 3185 19892 R5 7600X 2022 145 W 6/12 4213 28753 Sources: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html#desktop-thread https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=3DAMD+FX-8350+Eight-Core&id=3D1780 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=3DIntel+Core+i5-4590+%40+3.30GHz&i= d=3D2234 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=3DIntel+Core+i5-10400+%40+2.90GHz&= id=3D3737 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=3DAMD+Ryzen+3+4300G&id=3D3808 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=3DAMD+Ryzen+5+5600G&id=3D4325 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=3DAMD+Ryzen+5+7600X&id=3D5033 You can see the increase in performance. My old i5-4590, at half the cores,= =20 can keep up with your FX, even though it is only 1=C2=BD years younger. Ryz= ens=20 used to be more efficient in multi workloads (look at the 2020 entries). Bu= t=20 I=E2=80=99m not too sure about current generations due to Intel=E2=80=99s b= ig-little=20 concept. DDR5 and PCIe5 have higher requirements at signal quality, making the board= s=20 and components much more expensive (and, again, more power hungry). That=E2= =80=99s=20 why, even though DDR4 platforms are on their way out technologically, they= =20 are still an economically sound choice. > I was also wondering what a mobo/CPU/memory combo would cost nowadays.=C2= =A0 > Maybe someone who recently built a decent rig recalls how much they paid > for those three.=C2=A0 I don't go cheap on power supply but I don't requi= re a > lot for a video card or anything.=C2=A0 Some spend half their money on a > video card alone but I just don't need anything that fancy. Any current Intel non-F CPU (F means no graphics) can cover your graphics= =20 need. Finally, AMD caught up and started shipping a minimal graphics chip i= n=20 all of their processors with Zen 4, but as I said, that platform is still= =20 expensive. > I got a Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 that drives both my monitor and my TVs=20 > through a splitter and it does just fine. How cute. This should be about twice as fast as the integrated graphics in= =20 my 8-year-old i5. So you=E2=80=99ll be fine with *any* integrated graphics = (which=20 will also cut down on idle consuption, compared with a dGPU). > This is some good info tho.=C2=A0 Maybe someone who built a rig recently = can > chime in on costs, US dollar would be nice.=C2=A0 ;-) As mentioned, DDR5 is still expensive. With DDR4 platforms getting older,= =20 their prices are going down. The Ryzen 5 5600G is an excellent and efficien= t=20 processor (it=E2=80=99s basically a laptop chip in a desktop socket) and cu= rrently=20 can be had for around 125 =E2=82=AC (including taxes of course, not sure ab= out US=20 prices). It has over twice the single- and thrice the multi-core performanc= e=20 of your FX chip. Its graphics are way overkill for you, but you never know.= =20 ;-) If you want to keep yout GPU, there=E2=80=99s also the Ryzen 5 5500, it has= no=20 graphics and is only minutely slower than the 5600G, but can be had for les= s=20 than 100 =E2=82=AC. So, in summary (talking German consumer prices, meaning all taxes included,= =20 but I think you can assume very similar $ pricse) for a not too fancy=C2=B9= system: Processor 120 =E2=82=AC (or up top 150 =E2=82=AC for a current i3/i5) RAM 60 =E2=82=AC 32 GB DDR4 (cheap RAM, low latency costs more, but has no = real use=20 for your use case) Board 100..120 =E2=82=AC depending on I/O needs and quality. Going DDR5 means an increase in budget by at least 100 =E2=82=AC for a 32 G= B system. =C2=B9 As far as I can see, compiling packages is the most taxing thing you= do,=20 which is why I don=E2=80=99t see you needing a big-rig processor. (Though= I=20 understand the nice feeling you get from having one.) --=20 Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe | Greetings | Salut | Qapla=E2=80=99 Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. =E2=80=9CMeow=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CWoof=E2=80=9D Jeez, it= =E2=80=99s really raining today! --qisQmfzANA+zci2k Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEVbE9o2D2lE5fhoVsizG+tUDUMMoFAmQSQL4ACgkQizG+tUDU MMqq2Q/8D5/KPsTLTMNc+dZZ6tugGLkNPwa3qZgNMgn0YDMUUhQ1A0lBQGUen4Oi 2nh75iZT7jPWQYMNdVdTehUaMD4T7hK2cnMkzMe81+Qn2WG2Z/bngnjM9X0Hr1IH oXVTmyKx6q5XfAnVQ7h6pckqjXXndIT7CcssatGA9R/GHpQVmVwp4yMFdbZRRGRK 6dUaX/XwF0XKIyZ+CV3pD4FOHuVe+j99DHrgq3ixlW1CUYN4wLT8rtjt5z3ybK0H Iwz6e7ZhgwgHUNi+3diiJ5lwXoK1M73YhBBcS3hBC/1YxzaEWl9pKVdHBv+BWojs 7vOdziFuj1YllWhfayB8nm7nBedvyCJLXMC0520EnBvwgbvU/I1p5eaM6r3ChMku h8K/xjWKWX7bKJcKTikrxQ9csQMvf54DnEIhqSABh9ikYwcmq5IO7LEMH6yo4EJ6 hrOJhdhbONnzE6rtywPQ9r8H8ORCg6T7NgcVLUGS1t6RhgYLAe2z9f6kRKUiQk+g WYau59BND1Gw06Q4jLtxyFHsMDK3kSqkoGty/VTdmBO+uifWlHEN4RcPR3zxjB7c Xmx42XAzP732wqdYNG+AcX+U+UL73/zr0pKXJmdZBb+QrzNf1w/Kx0aakvESvzi6 /TAfsHc73DHBDr0oUq1faEgAUPbGLUrFH+yI33+wq/s8cLBcnb0= =WJeE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --qisQmfzANA+zci2k--