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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] --depclean wants to remove openrc. Yikes!
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 17:25:17 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YP2efTLJS0DrLrdm@ACM> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20210725164023.30b6b1ed@digimed.co.uk>

Hello, Neil.

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 16:40:23 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 13:43:46 +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

> > > It may be critical for *your* system ... :-)  

> > Just as systemd is for your system.  If you'd installed daemontools you
> > would also have come within a keystroke of destroying your system, just
> > as I did, on attempting emerge --depclean.  You would have received no
> > warning of any kind on installing the package, and there would be no
> > documentation brought to your attention about the potential catastrophe.

> This is a valid point, that appears to have been obscured by some of the
> discussions about the cause. As to whether it would render the system
> unbootable, I have no idea, would daemontools have taken care of that.

And this is the main point of my complaint - the surprise, the shock, and
the innocence (as in opposite of guilty, not of wordly-wise) of the
victims.  They have done nothing but installing a package in the normal
way.  daemontools can only boot a system if it's been configured to do
so.  That involves writing entries into /etc/inittab.

The number of people who would lose their systems by this mechanism is
likely very small, but that loss would probably involve a
re-installation.  I mean all a victim has to go on is the fact that his
machine won't boot, combined with a memory of having run emerge
--depclean the night before.

My guess (for which I have little basis) would be that daemontools is
used more as part of the various qmail variants rather than as the prime
init system.  I don't recall anybody on this list using d. rather than o.
or s. as their main init system.  In fact, I wasn't even aware it was
possible, before looking it up on Wikipedia this afternoon.

> It seems that Rich's suggestion has the most merit, add a USE flag to
> daemontools to indicate that it is intended to be your service manager,
> and have the virtual require that flag. Yes, it would require a
> one-off rebuild of daemontools for everyone with it installed, but the
> potential for breakage would be removed.

Another idea I had today is to have two packages, daemontools and
daemontools-init, which would be identical, apart from the fact that only
the second of these would satisfy virtual/service-manager.

> If I had to allocate blame for this, I would say it is the virtual that
> is the cause of the problem. With the current setup, unmerging openrc is
> the only way for depclean to deal with it when you have daemontools in
> @world.

I can't help feeling that maybe portage has become too complicated.

> -- 
> Neil Bothwick

> Top Oxymorons Number 41: Good grief

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).


  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-07-25 17:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-21 20:06 [gentoo-user] --depclean wants to remove openrc. Yikes! Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-21 20:13 ` tastytea
2021-07-21 20:27   ` Neil Bothwick
2021-07-24 13:47     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-24 14:14       ` Rich Freeman
2021-07-24 14:46         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-24 14:58           ` Rich Freeman
2021-07-24 21:01             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-25  9:03               ` Neil Bothwick
2021-07-25 11:47                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-25 12:26                   ` Wols Lists
2021-07-25 12:46                     ` tastytea
2021-07-25 13:49                       ` Dale
2021-07-25 13:59                         ` Wols Lists
2021-07-25 14:24                           ` Dale
2021-07-25 13:43                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-25 14:20                       ` Dale
2021-07-25 15:40                       ` Neil Bothwick
2021-07-25 16:31                         ` [gentoo-user] " Martin Vaeth
2021-07-25 17:25                         ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2021-07-25 22:03                           ` [gentoo-user] " Neil Bothwick
2021-07-25 16:18                       ` [gentoo-user] " Martin Vaeth
2021-07-25 18:05                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-25 19:54                           ` Rich Freeman
2021-07-26 19:19                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-26 20:17                               ` Rich Freeman
2021-07-29 20:24                                 ` Martin Vaeth
2021-07-29 20:32                                   ` Rich Freeman
2021-07-29 21:38                                     ` Martin Vaeth
2021-07-29 22:58                                       ` Rich Freeman
2021-07-25 22:32                           ` Martin Vaeth
2021-07-26 19:01                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-27  9:28                               ` Dr Rainer Woitok
2021-07-27 20:02                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-27 20:18                                   ` Neil Bothwick
2021-07-27 20:32                                     ` Michael Orlitzky
2021-07-27 20:58                                       ` Neil Bothwick
2021-07-27 21:06                                         ` Michael Orlitzky
2021-08-02 10:00                                   ` Dr Rainer Woitok
2021-08-02 11:54                                     ` Arve Barsnes
2021-08-02 13:33                                       ` Dr Rainer Woitok
2021-08-03 11:45                                         ` Alec Ten Harmsel
2021-08-03 12:44                                           ` Neil Bothwick
2021-08-04 10:52                                             ` Dr Rainer Woitok
2021-08-04 11:57                                               ` Philip Webb
2021-08-04 12:39                                                 ` Nuno Silva
2021-08-04 18:38                                                 ` Walter Dnes
2021-08-05  8:10                                                 ` Dr Rainer Woitok
2021-08-06  7:33                                                   ` Neil Bothwick
2021-08-06  8:55                                                     ` Dr Rainer Woitok
2021-07-29 21:15                               ` Martin Vaeth
2021-07-29 21:29                                 ` Grant Edwards
2021-07-29 21:46                                   ` Martin Vaeth
2021-07-29 22:55                                   ` Neil Bothwick
2021-07-30 18:30                                     ` Martin Vaeth
2021-07-30 20:26                                       ` Neil Bothwick
2021-07-26  0:39                       ` [gentoo-user] " Michael Orlitzky
2021-07-26  0:52                         ` Rich Freeman
2021-07-26  1:30                           ` Michael Orlitzky
2021-07-25 12:44                   ` Dale
2021-07-25 13:22                   ` Neil Bothwick
2021-07-25 13:40                     ` Dale
2021-07-24 15:03           ` Dale
2021-07-24 21:09             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-07-24 21:22               ` Dale
2021-07-25  7:09               ` Wols Lists

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