From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0DBA158020 for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 20:47:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 706C6E08E0; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 20:47:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAA6BE088B for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 20:47:43 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1671310056; bh=HRPnqWBaOoxDkzI6e+BG37cZ5HJf9wOVyrw+FWuNiVg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=J50jO9l4KiCSZ5KoNpDkUIq34isG7GOYLrZrSk14q69BgRf/OdcZAqUY8+542Tbdp 5dRn0ufL4eSqSt08nh48hhXx1FpdJpNvn9XCmViZWihmicgsVq1/zqkzeWBkvvJ65R SWSZfRhm13JKGZx57ULyoh4MF2Gvj8xNTDcnFQJnuFRuwz6dtMT3JWD5X/TQiXxdoe FuiaKLpeGTL3X58WpYYUyjEksmDBBqRrT7ylDHBwsmsFkzD9roGrTAZBVryC56h+p+ Y0L0rHI5FYnZAWfur2E1GhgdKs7yAwM90tT3KXWt9VHqIPIHamfGBeN+tiWJSw6V9V +KJlTvAjnMINg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from kern ([92.117.59.23]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MEUz4-1p8GeI2KWw-00G2uB for ; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 21:47:36 +0100 Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 21:47:34 +0100 From: Frank Steinmetzger To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <9407e524-2226-6ba9-dd7f-bac635d083e3@gmail.com> <10b30d8a-5c5d-a80a-e659-b5624e2848e4@gmail.com> <78c2c83f-fdd8-5c9b-3ac3-7c22bc4b5d64@gmail.com> <0a10c428-94f1-6112-4d88-c97143f9564d@gmail.com> Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="z5mpNMKiCCxEKFC9" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt 2.2.9; VIM - Vi IMproved 9.0 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:zgbAKz60jFhpOIl9NBGQ2Nuybk+BP986UiT7XeUTRKG15mWvC// 64cgq8VK3iTnB69upRYeoh6I8u3GrrxUf8ApSJNrA/N5oHVH/ts+nxeBgLwkQuKm7Z07Jmq uuYTcsAJuBiCV0lR9WCl3hIueFKpgiX+0vseINMA/qsLBb+VvU0t5+ceppBX5Yr5yOs3zsB r2YEAzsjrjfGgRiT5uDUQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:o5OxMGIDnnU=;Rdr14YemvZ+JDLk6bPgYBLqNPis 6PURuUGTIGw2Fn07Vn5P28jvlkXP8LnIeoTadrjGxJ8WM0fqFo66aNzFfGBK6Ii5dXTOAW7V1 foEI82HsBlu5lcXcTRykb9/vdRI7+jaAGu/EcbDPE/0NFOBE+8k5rGAnJYNWILo4fIAekB5KX pj+O7BAmKDYO3RcGApZI+Scm5cYQ8NParodQL1+RH3NoTbZafInLtqC2WTeiuuT7Rn4pt8WB+ O0liZueY/wMUTf9LPMiM3iTWVUXAgly+vLbobcDIbLxITSzCMIOxB+5OAoPcVpvSMclWyo9oY J9+IsfE0USIu1EUJy13TMpOxVHRCH3DfKrz4hKsR+HqyFwnpYP4wOcCm/MjqyRohr1kMOKqKb +EgRG9eT6+X8cL9EIPGnqy7wcY7rH+PHBrYcOPn1HYmJCZ9inIJ00WG/CAS1RrPr7yigUqtro v9qXRWMW35L2cZY5GMzB04Hb9H7v1XQFbRcAwv/kL24C35Pogeqfcdw9pKCzIj82cFHVjO+CL 4PgIchbEs/pMSMlvq+t3ELBgyCXGeXAPeZQTzgwvxOruHUZsqtJKt9mNRfg9S7S3vS2tbdaJn pm7q7WhThLqrrrNsvCVvSC12CVpllIgJO+6pQ5MEGuJjBxBnYSIO1GMDn/bLcKr0QaLMRZrvT G3RTKqgB8TLYkE5QLVxnTfuzQmmCkkbCP0vDPSvrFyAdBLNLgotRsfPNkG8gBSORcR9gT2vnx RFJLC1tJnDxOWtBhDYwOOplXoYZ64ixDY0RyAnZ9Pkh3SNEPu9BDT77WLKPQfEUNhAhN10T9c tssXy360Do24xFgfq0rmE18jFTXHNQ0/lI/5Lf4Pt9BAyT9N7tod+O6VdVwlmkWSnbwae5jPM osycAsqwAKFiCkD9IgcyaOl7gJgE4tvt9s67ZACe92dBObwDTzfVWz6Lpe/92Iu0aJSbzYOuw FaZjTA== X-Archives-Salt: 7de4680d-b30a-4766-8492-fa66d9884a55 X-Archives-Hash: 114403ba22c0f3e3c148b8ee72e37f36 --z5mpNMKiCCxEKFC9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Am Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 09:09:48AM -0700 schrieb Mark Knecht: > On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dale wrote: > > > I > > > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that? That would be > > > interesting. I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM > > > instead. Interesting thought. I just may go bug google on that one. > > > > Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a > > storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas > > put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer > > of indirection? > > [=E2=80=A6] > It's more about me being more used to using LVM. Also, more used to > Linux as well. BSD is not something I have much experience with and until > recently, none with ZFS. Even the little experience I have with BSD was > well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago. I barely remember it real= ly. The truenas interface is supposed to hide all that from you. As Mark wrote two posts up, it=E2=80=99s an appliance. You install it once, that=E2=80=99= s it. I think you can install addons, but don=E2=80=99t have to. You maybe do updates once in= a while, perhaps not even that if it=E2=80=99s a critical production host. You don= =E2=80=99t ssh into it to do maintenance or to add or remove disks on the commandline. That=E2= =80=99s what the web UI is for. All of it. The biggest and most obvious difference for me would be how devices are named in comparison to Linux. > Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a file system. > LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system. > My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions > on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5. LVM is =E2=80=9Cjust=E2=80=9D an abstraction layer between file system and = storage. At the bottom there are your block devices (drives, image files), which then may or may not be RAIDed. Then you have LVM on top of that to encompass all those devices into one big =E2=80=9Cvirtual hard drive=E2=80=9D and partition it = (logical volumes). And lastly you put file systems into those volumes. So there are two, three (or even four, if you add encryption somewhere in between) layers stacked onto your raw devices. ZFS OTOH is all of that in one. It takes the raw block devices as a whole, puts them (optionally) into redundancy structures, allows for =E2=80=9Cpart= itions=E2=80=9D (i.e. datasets) and lastly also *is* the file system. The advantage is that it can combine its knowledge about all those layers to improve performance and reliability. So for instance it distributes writes according to vdev occupancy (LVM has no knowledge about the FS layer above it). Or when you rebuild a RAID, only those parts that are actually used by the FS need to be reconstructed, not the whole disk. I may come off as a ZFS fanboy in this thread. But I am in no way an expert, just a small-time user with just that one NAS with one RAID setup. That=E2= =80=99s it. I did a lot of reading beforehand, whether I should use it or mdadm or btrfs. All my knowledge comes from that time, I never worked with it in my professional life. I also use LVM on my systems these days, just in case my root partition becomes crowded and needs some extra space that I can take from the media partition. Had to do this once, it went quick and was a fun experience. > WRT you I recommend that you try living in NGL for a while. Possibly > you are just a bit too indoctrinated in the religion of building packages > 30-50 times a year believing (without hard data) that it provides value. +1 I admit I like the occasional update of my Gentoo NAS. But that=E2=80=99s a= lso because it=E2=80=99s my last living Gentoo device. I always liked the envir= onment, still do. Gentoo was my first Linux after all, that stuff stays in your mind. But oh the time-consuming hassle sometimes. --=20 Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe | Greetings | Salut | Qapla=E2=80=99 Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network. 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