[gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

I'm about to switch from cable to ADSL anytime soon, and I'm trying to
prepare the computer for the big change, given that there will be a time
gap without internet access and that I can't expect any support
whatsoever from the provider's staff. Of course, I can't do any
testing...

According to
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3,
it seems that it is enough to emerge net-dialup/rp-pppoe, edit
/etc/conf.d/net and edit /etc/ppp/pap-secrets. Is this correct? I mean,
what about the contents of /etc/ppp/, like /etc/ppp/pppoe.conf? Aren't
we supposed to edit at least the latter?
The handbook says the contents of /etc/ppp/pap-secrets must be
"username"  *  "password"
but /usr/share/doc/rp-pppoe-3.8/pap-secrets.gz says it must be like
bxxxxx@sympatico.ca     *               my_password     *
(i.e., another * and no quotes...)
Can someone clarify this point?

Another matter that is not clear to me: what about  pppoe-start and all
other commands mentioned in "man pppoe"? I think that
/etc/init.d/net.eth0 works as a wrapper and will invoke the appropriate
commands as needed. Is this correct, and can I safely ignore such
commands?


-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Graham Murray]

Jorge Almeida <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> writes:

> I'm about to switch from cable to ADSL anytime soon, and I'm trying to
> prepare the computer for the big change, given that there will be a time
> gap without internet access and that I can't expect any support
> whatsoever from the provider's staff. Of course, I can't do any
> testing...
>
> According to
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3,
> it seems that it is enough to emerge net-dialup/rp-pppoe, edit
> /etc/conf.d/net and edit /etc/ppp/pap-secrets. Is this correct? I mean,
> what about the contents of /etc/ppp/, like /etc/ppp/pppoe.conf? Aren't
> we supposed to edit at least the latter?

Would it not be much simpler to use a router to connect to the ADSL
and use ethernet or Wifi to connect the PC(s) to the router? 
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, b.n. wrote:

>
> Buying an hardware router with DHCP will avoid you any hassle. I did this way 
> at my parent's home and everything runs perfectly.
>
> Of course I'm talking of a 24/7 connection.
>
Probably that's what I want, but how can I know? The handbook doesn't
talk about such things, and I have no experience with ADSL. What
configuring must be done for such setup? More important, what
documentation is there? (And the instructions in the handbook refer to
what kind of setup?)

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[b.n.]

Jorge Almeida ha scritto:
> I'm about to switch from cable to ADSL anytime soon, and I'm trying to
> prepare the computer for the big change, given that there will be a time
> gap without internet access and that I can't expect any support
> whatsoever from the provider's staff. Of course, I can't do any
> testing...

Buying an hardware router with DHCP will avoid you any hassle. I did 
this way at my parent's home and everything runs perfectly.

Of course I'm talking of a 24/7 connection.

m.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Wednesday 10 January 2007 12:43, Jorge Almeida 
<jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote about '[gentoo-user] moving to ADSL':
> I'm about to switch from cable to ADSL anytime soon, and I'm trying to
> prepare the computer for the big change, given that there will be a time
> gap without internet access and that I can't expect any support
> whatsoever from the provider's staff. Of course, I can't do any
> testing...

Firstly, ignore those that want you to buy another piece of hardware to do 
something your computer is perfectly capable of doing.  It's an 
unnecessary expense, and while initial configuration *might* be easier 
you'll pay later because that "simple" interface doesn't expose enough to 
allow you to effectively troubleshoot.

> According to
> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=4&chap=3,
> it seems that it is enough to emerge net-dialup/rp-pppoe, edit
> /etc/conf.d/net and edit /etc/ppp/pap-secrets. Is this correct? I mean,
> what about the contents of /etc/ppp/, like /etc/ppp/pppoe.conf? Aren't
> we supposed to edit at least the latter?
> The handbook says the contents of /etc/ppp/pap-secrets must be
> "username"  *  "password"
> but /usr/share/doc/rp-pppoe-3.8/pap-secrets.gz says it must be like
> bxxxxx@sympatico.ca     *               my_password     *
> (i.e., another * and no quotes...)
> Can someone clarify this point?

While the handbook sometimes leaves things out, if it explicitly mentioned 
you *do not* need to do something, you won't *in the most likely case*.

That said, we are using ADSL for part of our connection here and I believe 
we are having a Gentoo machine handle to pppoe connection.  I'll see if I 
can't get your an actual configuration (minus passwords, of course) and 
send it to you privately so you have a concrete, working example of pppoe 
in Gentoo.

You might also check the Gentoo wiki, it may have more details than the 
handbook.

> Another matter that is not clear to me: what about  pppoe-start and all
> other commands mentioned in "man pppoe"? I think that
> /etc/init.d/net.eth0 works as a wrapper and will invoke the appropriate
> commands as needed. Is this correct, and can I safely ignore such
> commands?

A properly configured /etc/conf.d/net will let Gentoo manage invoking all 
these commands, yes.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Wednesday 10 January 2007 20:32, Jorge Almeida wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, b.n. wrote:
> > Buying an hardware router with DHCP will avoid you any hassle. I did
> > this way at my parent's home and everything runs perfectly.
> >
> > Of course I'm talking of a 24/7 connection.
>
> Probably that's what I want, but how can I know? The handbook doesn't
> talk about such things, and I have no experience with ADSL. What
> configuring must be done for such setup? More important, what 
> documentation is there? (And the instructions in the handbook refer to
> what kind of setup?)

If you use a router, the usual DHCP configuration (for wired or wireless 
ethernet) applies. Depending on the router setup, your host might 
receive only the IP address or other parameters too (DNS, domain name, 
etc.), so just edit /etc/conf.d/net accordingly.
The router is usually configured using a web interface, and is the device 
that establishes the actual Internet connection (using its WAN port). 
Of course, the router _does_ have to be configured with the correct ADSL 
parameters (type of ATM encapsulation, username/password for the PPP 
session, etc.) and these parameters are (or should be) provided by your 
ISP.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On Wednesday 10 January 2007 22:06, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote:

> If you use a router, the usual DHCP configuration (for wired or
> wireless ethernet) applies.

Of course, the above is true if you configure your router to act as a 
DHCP server (the most common setup with an ADSL router, at least in my 
experience). But you can also using static addresses, of course. The 
important thing is that /etc/conf.d/net reflects your actual setup.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

>
> Firstly, ignore those that want you to buy another piece of hardware to do
> something your computer is perfectly capable of doing.  It's an
> unnecessary expense, and while initial configuration *might* be easier
> you'll pay later because that "simple" interface doesn't expose enough to
> allow you to effectively troubleshoot.
>
I've been browsing the provider's page, and it happens that you have to
buy a connection kit (not very expensive) as part of the contract. It
includes a modem+router (Huawei ADSL 2+), so the choice is whether to
use it or to buy something better...
The other point is important, of course. So, if I understood correctly,
the "router" is really a box containing a modem to deal with
analogic/digital conversions and a router to allow connection to one or
several computers. Right?
And the interface via web is always OS-agnostic? Or should I worry that
I buy a linux-unfriendly device?
>
> That said, we are using ADSL for part of our connection here and I believe
> we are having a Gentoo machine handle to pppoe connection.  I'll see if I
> can't get your an actual configuration (minus passwords, of course) and
> send it to you privately so you have a concrete, working example of pppoe
> in Gentoo.
>
OK, that would be usefull, whether I use a router or not.
> You might also check the Gentoo wiki, it may have more details than the
> handbook.
>
Will do.
>
> A properly configured /etc/conf.d/net will let Gentoo manage invoking all
> these commands, yes.
>
Thanks.
-- 
Jorge
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Neil Bothwick]

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On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 14:35:39 -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

> Firstly, ignore those that want you to buy another piece of hardware to
> do something your computer is perfectly capable of doing. 

He's going to need an ADSL modem, so why not get one with a router built
in? In fact, here in the UK, it is all but impossible to buy an ethernet
ADSL modem without a built in router. I bought the only one I could
find, a D-Link, and it was useless, so I went back to the combined unit.

Over here, ISPs supply a "free" USB modem. The reason it's free is that's
a reasonable assessment of its value. So you end up buying an ethernet
modem anyway, and that includes a router.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Is that "woof" feed me; "woof" walk me; "woof" there's a burglar? What??

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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Wednesday 10 January 2007 16:15, Jorge Almeida 
<jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL':
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > Firstly, ignore those that want you to buy another piece of hardware
> > to do something your computer is perfectly capable of doing.  It's an
> > unnecessary expense, and while initial configuration *might* be easier
> > you'll pay later because that "simple" interface doesn't expose enough
> > to allow you to effectively troubleshoot.
>
> I've been browsing the provider's page, and it happens that you have to
> buy a connection kit (not very expensive) as part of the contract. It
> includes a modem+router (Huawei ADSL 2+), so the choice is whether to
> use it or to buy something better...

Well, I knew you'd need a ADSL modem.  Some of these (IIRC ours even) can 
be configured to handle all the pppoe-ness and simply provide an ethernet 
connection.  Depending on your service plan, you'll then simply run a DHCP 
client or statically configure your IP.

This proved to be flaky on our model of modem, with the pppoe packages for 
linux more gracefully handling things.

> The other point is important, of course. So, if I understood correctly,
> the "router" is really a box containing a modem to deal with
> analogic/digital conversions and a router to allow connection to one or
> several computers. Right?

I've seen the word "router" abused so much, it doesn't have a lot of 
meaning.  It seems to be any piece of dedicated network hardware that 
understands any wire protocol above the physical and link layers.  This 
includes everything from smart siwtches with L3/4/7 filtering and/or QoS 
to an ADSL modem that supports "bridge" mode.

(I think ADSL providers don't want to use the word modem cause it makes 
consumers think "slow".)

> And the interface via web is always OS-agnostic? Or should I worry that
> I buy a linux-unfriendly device?

Most web interfaces are browser-agnostic.  Occasionally you will see a 
firmware update page that only works in IE, but FF should be capable of 
handling most of the trouble interfaces.

> > That said, we are using ADSL for part of our connection here and I
> > believe we are having a Gentoo machine handle to pppoe connection. 
> > I'll see if I can't get your an actual configuration (minus passwords,
> > of course) and send it to you privately so you have a concrete,
> > working example of pppoe in Gentoo.
> OK, that would be usefull, whether I use a router or not.

The pppoe software is on a box that only my roommate has shell access to.  
I'll talk to him when he gets home and see if he'll dump those configs for 
you.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, b.n. wrote:

> Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ha scritto:
>>  Firstly, ignore those that want you to buy another piece of hardware to do
>>  something your computer is perfectly capable of doing.  It's an
>>  unnecessary expense, and while initial configuration *might* be easier
>>  you'll pay later because that "simple" interface doesn't expose enough to
>>  allow you to effectively troubleshoot.
>
> Good point. I agree and I'm sorry. I explain why I immediately adviced for 
Don't be sorry!
> buying a router: here in Italy most commercial ADSL providers rent you an USB 
> modem (not an Ethernet one). Some USB ADSL modems are somehow supported on 
> linux, but drivers are famous to be poorly documented, unreliable and to make 
> them work is often a real pain in the neck.
Here they sell you a router (with ethernet and USB interface, at least
the provider I have in mind), so it seems a good solution.
>
>
> However I'd still advice for a small ADSL router if he wants to connect more 
> than one box. Of course he can build a Gentoo router himself buying a very 
> old machine and a bunch of ethernet cards on eBay :)
>
Using a dedicated computer as router is not a good idea in Portugal,
because power is expensive. I suppose that a router/modem is much less
energy consuming, so buying one is probably a good strategy.

Thanks.
-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[b.n.]

Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ha scritto:
> Firstly, ignore those that want you to buy another piece of hardware to do 
> something your computer is perfectly capable of doing.  It's an 
> unnecessary expense, and while initial configuration *might* be easier 
> you'll pay later because that "simple" interface doesn't expose enough to 
> allow you to effectively troubleshoot.

Good point. I agree and I'm sorry. I explain why I immediately adviced 
for buying a router: here in Italy most commercial ADSL providers rent 
you an USB modem (not an Ethernet one). Some USB ADSL modems are somehow 
supported on linux, but drivers are famous to be poorly documented, 
unreliable and to make them work is often a real pain in the neck.

So when my parents got an ADSL I immediately told them to not rent the 
modem, and I bought them an ADSL router, that indeed worked perfectly 
from scratch.

However I'd still advice for a small ADSL router if he wants to connect 
more than one box. Of course he can build a Gentoo router himself buying 
a very old machine and a bunch of ethernet cards on eBay :)

m.
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:

>
> Well, I knew you'd need a ADSL modem.  Some of these (IIRC ours even) can
> be configured to handle all the pppoe-ness and simply provide an ethernet
> connection.  Depending on your service plan, you'll then simply run a DHCP
> client or statically configure your IP.
So, the computer must have the IP (static or dynamic) assigned by the
provider? Or the ethernet interface in the router has that IP and the
computer a private one?
And how about firewalling? I currently use Shorewall (with cable modem).
Would the configuration be the same? (What I mean is: for the computer
connected to a ADSL router, what is the "outside world"? The same that
the router "sees"? Or is firewalling meaningful only at the router level
and not at the computer level?)
>
> This proved to be flaky on our model of modem, with the pppoe packages for
> linux more gracefully handling things.
>
That's something that's worth thinking about. Rather than upgrading a
linux system, one is stuck with whatever comes in the box. And what is
the OS inside? Some embedded linux, or something fishy?
(And is this a reason to worry?)

>> OK, that would be usefull, whether I use a router or not.
>
> The pppoe software is on a box that only my roommate has shell access to.
> I'll talk to him when he gets home and see if he'll dump those configs for
> you.
>
>
Thanks.

-- 
Jorge Almeida
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.]

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On Wednesday 10 January 2007 17:20, Jorge Almeida 
<jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL':
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> > Well, I knew you'd need a ADSL modem.  Some of these (IIRC ours even)
> > can be configured to handle all the pppoe-ness and simply provide an
> > ethernet connection.  Depending on your service plan, you'll then
> > simply run a DHCP client or statically configure your IP.
>
> So, the computer must have the IP (static or dynamic) assigned by the
> provider? Or the ethernet interface in the router has that IP and the
> computer a private one?

Depends on setup.  Ours has (at least) two modes.  In one, the router has 
no IP, just like an external modem on dial-up has no IP.  The computer 
will have the external IP (static or dynamic) and need to run it's own 
firewall if you want one.  In this mode it's acting just as a modem 
translating USB or ethernet onto the phone line.  You are expected to run 
the PPPoE software on the computer.

There is also another mode, where IIRC, the modem does all the PPPoE stuff, 
and the computer sees a "standard" ethernet connection.  It then does DHCP 
or static addressing, just like a cable modem.

> And how about firewalling? I currently use Shorewall (with cable modem).
> Would the configuration be the same? (What I mean is: for the computer
> connected to a ADSL router, what is the "outside world"? The same that
> the router "sees"? Or is firewalling meaningful only at the router level
> and not at the computer level?)

Again depends on how you set up the modem+router.

> > This proved to be flaky on our model of modem, with the pppoe packages
> > for linux more gracefully handling things.
>
> That's something that's worth thinking about. Rather than upgrading a
> linux system, one is stuck with whatever comes in the box. And what is
> the OS inside? Some embedded linux, or something fishy?
> (And is this a reason to worry?)

Usually "something fishy", although I'm sure there are linux models 
available.

-- 
"If there's one thing we've established over the years,
it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest
clue what's best for them in terms of package stability."
-- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh

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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Kent Fredric]

On 1/11/07, Jorge Almeida <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, I knew you'd need a ADSL modem.  Some of these (IIRC ours even) can
> > be configured to handle all the pppoe-ness and simply provide an ethernet
> > connection.  Depending on your service plan, you'll then simply run a DHCP
> > client or statically configure your IP.
> So, the computer must have the IP (static or dynamic) assigned by the
> provider? Or the ethernet interface in the router has that IP and the
> computer a private one?
> And how about firewalling? I currently use Shorewall (with cable modem).
> Would the configuration be the same? (What I mean is: for the computer
> connected to a ADSL router, what is the "outside world"? The same that
> the router "sees"? Or is firewalling meaningful only at the router level
> and not at the computer level?)
> >
> > This proved to be flaky on our model of modem, with the pppoe packages for
> > linux more gracefully handling things.
> >
> That's something that's worth thinking about. Rather than upgrading a
> linux system, one is stuck with whatever comes in the box. And what is
> the OS inside? Some embedded linux, or something fishy?
> (And is this a reason to worry?)
>
> >> OK, that would be usefull, whether I use a router or not.
> >
> > The pppoe software is on a box that only my roommate has shell access to.
> > I'll talk to him when he gets home and see if he'll dump those configs for
> > you.
> >

Generally, at least In new zealand, users will opt for a USB/LAN
attached external ADSL device, which runs @ about 30 watts, usually
has both USB and LAN connectors, and has a generally usefull
interface.

In my experience, these modems run embedded linux installations
running in about 8meg of ram/flash on a MIPS chip not much better than
a P75, if at all better.


Generally, these devices provide full DHCP, DNS,NTP, Port/Host based
routing/firewalling etc, and all users are NAT'ed behind it.

I have never honestly seen anyone using a PCI ADSL card, as in my
understanding finding a card that worked properly was a problem, as
well as many of them being "soft modems", ie: offloading your
processor to make it work in a very HCF-Dialup-Soft-WinModem-esque way
( ie: i was under the impression it was a nightmare to set up )

To the user of these devices, it appears on the network in both cases
as just being another computer. In the case of the USB connector, at
least in linux, it appears to act as if you had plugged in a USB
network card which connects to that same computer.


Generally, the modem handles all the potentially difficult nasties of
gettting the PPP stuff underway, and you cant even tell what your
external IP is unless you query the modems web interface. To the user,
you can just be 192.168.1.50, and the modem can be 192.168.1.1, and
the modem being the default gateway, and all the rest is handled by
NAT magic.

That said, i have one reason why I myself would like a box i crafted
myself with a PCI modem in it,  and thats primarily so i can implement
routing, traffic monitoring and the like more configurably, and in my
experience, some modems are often 'poxy' and can crash occasionally as
a result of using bittorrent. ( I have the modem set to send its
syslog errors to my linux boxes syslog and its full of MASQUERADE: No
route: Rusty's brain broke! )

But most people IMO ( ESPECIALLY windows users ) should have an
external ADSL unit. For those poor windows suckers at least then you
-know- you have a reliable hardware firewall which isn't going to have
a blatently wide-open hole in it which requires you running all sorts
of crappy software which slows down your machine ;)

Make your decision wisely :)
--
Kent
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Andrey Gerasimenko]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:43:26 +0300, Jorge Almeida  
<jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:

> I'm about to switch from cable to ADSL anytime soon, and I'm trying to
> prepare the computer for the big change, given that there will be a time
> gap without internet access and that I can't expect any support
> whatsoever from the provider's staff. Of course, I can't do any
> testing...
>

I see many advice to buy an external ADSL modem with built in router on  
this thread. I agree that it may be a good idea, but nobody (so far) had  
mentioned 4 subtile points:

The firewall and router you get with an ADSL modem are essentially free  
these days. If you need more then what is in the router, nothing prevents  
you from building a box for traffic monitoring and advanced routing later.

An ADSL modem with a router immediately provides you with a home network  
ready to be used with another PC or a guest notebook.

Since changes to the PC configuration necessary to connect to an ADSL  
modem with a router are minimal, there should be no time gap without the  
NET, it should be a period when you have both ADSL and cable.

You must check if your ADSL modem has a splitter. It may be built-in,  
coming with the modem, or you may have to buy one (dirt cheap) separately.

-- 
Andrei Gerasimenko
-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Ow Mun Heng]

On Thu, 2007-01-11 at 10:07 +0300, Andrey Gerasimenko wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 21:43:26 +0300, Jorge Almeida  
> <jalmeida@math.ist.utl.pt> wrote:
> 
> > I'm about to switch from cable to ADSL anytime soon, and I'm trying to
> > prepare the computer for the big change, given that there will be a time
> > gap without internet access and that I can't expect any support
> > whatsoever from the provider's staff. Of course, I can't do any
> > testing...

> The firewall and router you get with an ADSL modem are essentially free  
> these days. If you need more then what is in the router, nothing prevents  
> you from building a box for traffic monitoring and advanced routing later.

But they differ in terms of what 'abilities' they have. Some are 'gaming
routers', some have capability to prioritise voip etc.
But, all in all, you will lose some amount of flexilibility as opposed
to using a pc (soekris eg:) as your 'router' and the modem only as a
'modem'

> Since changes to the PC configuration necessary to connect to an ADSL  
> modem with a router are minimal, there should be no time gap without the  
> NET, it should be a period when you have both ADSL and cable.


I agree. All you need to know is the setup on how to setup the
modem/router to log into your ISP and you're home free.



-- 
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list

Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Kent Fredric wrote:

>
> Generally, these devices provide full DHCP, DNS,NTP, Port/Host based
> routing/firewalling etc, and all users are NAT'ed behind it.
>
> Generally, the modem handles all the potentially difficult nasties of
> gettting the PPP stuff underway, and you cant even tell what your
> external IP is unless you query the modems web interface. To the user,
> you can just be 192.168.1.50, and the modem can be 192.168.1.1, and
> the modem being the default gateway, and all the rest is handled by
> NAT magic.
>
So this means that all firewalling is made by the router, who knows with
what software...
> That said, i have one reason why I myself would like a box i crafted
> myself with a PCI modem in it,  and thats primarily so i can implement
> routing, traffic monitoring and the like more configurably, and in my
> experience, some modems are often 'poxy' and can crash occasionally as
> a result of using bittorrent. ( I have the modem set to send its
> syslog errors to my linux boxes syslog and its full of MASQUERADE: No
> route: Rusty's brain broke! )
>
Yes... I doubt a router-embedded firewall will allow me to configure it
as I want.
>
Thank you for your input.

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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Andrey Gerasimenko wrote:

>
> The firewall and router you get with an ADSL modem are essentially free these 
> days. If you need more then what is in the router, nothing prevents you from 
> building a box for traffic monitoring and advanced routing later.
>
Good point.
>
> You must check if your ADSL modem has a splitter. It may be built-in, coming 
> with the modem, or you may have to buy one (dirt cheap) separately.
They provide both a splitter and a microfilter.
>
Thanks.

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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[b.n.]

Jorge Almeida ha scritto:
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Kent Fredric wrote:
> 
>>
>> Generally, these devices provide full DHCP, DNS,NTP, Port/Host based
>> routing/firewalling etc, and all users are NAT'ed behind it.
>>
>> Generally, the modem handles all the potentially difficult nasties of
>> gettting the PPP stuff underway, and you cant even tell what your
>> external IP is unless you query the modems web interface. To the user,
>> you can just be 192.168.1.50, and the modem can be 192.168.1.1, and
>> the modem being the default gateway, and all the rest is handled by
>> NAT magic.
>>
> So this means that all firewalling is made by the router, who knows with
> what software...

Well, you can disable router firewalling and firewalling your box, why 
not? Actually, that's the most sensible thing to do.

m.
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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, b.n. wrote:

>> > 
>> >  Generally, the modem handles all the potentially difficult nasties of
>> >  gettting the PPP stuff underway, and you cant even tell what your
>> >  external IP is unless you query the modems web interface. To the user,
>> >  you can just be 192.168.1.50, and the modem can be 192.168.1.1, and
>> >  the modem being the default gateway, and all the rest is handled by
>> >  NAT magic.
>> >
>>  So this means that all firewalling is made by the router, who knows with
>>  what software...
>
> Well, you can disable router firewalling and firewalling your box, why not? 
> Actually, that's the most sensible thing to do.
>
I think I was confused and said nonsense. The box having a private IP
doesn't preclude it seeing the IP of incoming packets, so I suppose I
can have the router firewall active (whatever it may be) and also
Shorewall on the workstation. After all, redundant security doesn't
hurt.

Cheers.
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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Mick]

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On Thursday 11 January 2007 22:15, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, b.n. wrote:

> > Well, you can disable router firewalling and firewalling your box, why
> > not? Actually, that's the most sensible thing to do.
>
> I think I was confused and said nonsense. The box having a private IP
> doesn't preclude it seeing the IP of incoming packets, so I suppose I
> can have the router firewall active (whatever it may be) and also
> Shorewall on the workstation. After all, redundant security doesn't
> hurt.

That's how I have set up mine.  The Netgear [ADSL modem/NAT router/SPI 
firewall (statefull packet inspection)] box does its tricks, inc. acting as a 
DHCP, DNS server and gateway for the boxen on the LAN, while each LAN machine 
has an additional layer of security by running its own firewall.

BTW, my Netgear DG834 is running this much:
===============================================
cat /proc/version
Linux version 2.4.17_mvl21-malta-mips_fp_le (root@Run-P4) (gcc version 2.95.3 
20010315 (release/MontaVista)) #6 Wed Sep 7 16:50:05 CST 2005

iptables
iptables v1.2.8: no command specified
===============================================

and this is what's in the box:
===============================================
cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor               : 0
cpu model               : MIPS 4KEc V4.8
BogoMIPS                : 149.91
wait instruction        : no
microsecond timers      : yes
extra interrupt vector  : yes
hardware watchpoint     : yes
VCED exceptions         : not available
VCEI exceptions         : not available

cat /proc/meminfo
        total:    used:    free:  shared: buffers:  cached:
Mem:  14757888  9375744  5382144        0  1011712  3612672
Swap:        0        0        0
MemTotal:        14412 kB
MemFree:          5256 kB
MemShared:           0 kB
Buffers:           988 kB
Cached:           3528 kB
SwapCached:          0 kB
Active:           1608 kB
Inactive:         4268 kB
HighTotal:           0 kB
HighFree:            0 kB
LowTotal:        14412 kB
LowFree:          5256 kB
SwapTotal:           0 kB
SwapFree:            0 kB
===============================================

You configure the iptables using the web GUI, which runs on cgi scripts.  
OpenWRT have a work-in-progress Linux image for it.  Hopefully development 
will continue because I really like to set up ssh access to it.  There are 
also ADSL routers in the market that have usb ports for attaching USB drivers 
to be accessed by LAN machines as network drivers.  Of course hacking the 
kernel on a machine like DNS-120, which can accept USB flash or hard drives 
and make them accessible from the Internet is probably a more interesting 
proposition . . .
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, Mick wrote:

>
> That's how I have set up mine.  The Netgear [ADSL modem/NAT router/SPI
> firewall (statefull packet inspection)] box does its tricks, inc. acting as a
> DHCP, DNS server and gateway for the boxen on the LAN, while each LAN machine
> has an additional layer of security by running its own firewall.
>
> You configure the iptables using the web GUI, which runs on cgi scripts.
> OpenWRT have a work-in-progress Linux image for it.  Hopefully development
> will continue because I really like to set up ssh access to it.  There are
> also ADSL routers in the market that have usb ports for attaching USB drivers
> to be accessed by LAN machines as network drivers.  Of course hacking the
> kernel on a machine like DNS-120, which can accept USB flash or hard drives
> and make them accessible from the Internet is probably a more interesting
> proposition . . .
>
I'm thinking of a Linksys WRT54GL, which can run OpenWRT. I need it to
have a ssh client (at least), because I want it to check its dynamic IP
periodically and ssh into my  PC at work, so that I can  ssh into my
home workstation if needed. And sshd in the router would allow to
keep the workstation off and wake it via WakeOnLan...Of course,
installing daemontools on the router to add reliability to the
IP-checking script would be even better...

Cheers.
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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[William Kenworthy]

On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 22:42 +0000, Jorge Almeida wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jan 2007, Mick wrote:
> 
> >
> > That's how I have set up mine.  The Netgear [ADSL modem/NAT router/SPI
> > firewall (statefull packet inspection)] box does its tricks, inc. acting as a
> > DHCP, DNS server and gateway for the boxen on the LAN, while each LAN machine
> > has an additional layer of security by running its own firewall.
> >

get the device to tell you that its IP has changed?

I use a linux box behind an old DSL300 for the above that extracts the
IP number from the interface connected to the DSL300 every 60 seconds.
If its changed, this triggers an update to dyndns (via ezupdate),
restarts the webserver, firewall, asterisk etc with the new IP and
uploads a simple html file to my webspace on my ISP as a fallback.
dyndns has proven very reliable for changing IP's - basicly "just works"
- for ~4 years!

I presume OpenWRT can run scripts to do something similar?

BillK

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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Jorge Almeida]

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007, William Kenworthy wrote:

> get the device to tell you that its IP has changed?
>
> I use a linux box behind an old DSL300 for the above that extracts the
> IP number from the interface connected to the DSL300 every 60 seconds.
> If its changed, this triggers an update to dyndns (via ezupdate),
> restarts the webserver, firewall, asterisk etc with the new IP and
> uploads a simple html file to my webspace on my ISP as a fallback.
> dyndns has proven very reliable for changing IP's - basicly "just works"
> - for ~4 years!
>
> I presume OpenWRT can run scripts to do something similar?
>
I think it can run user-made scripts (that's the point, after all), but
my experience with OpenWRT is nil. I can cook up the script easily
enough, but I don't know about ezupdate in OpenWRT. Anyway, I don't
really need dyndns, just knowing the IP would be enough for my modest
needs.
What seems great about OpenWRT is the possibility of installing
packages. Only debian packages made for OpenWRT. I guess I'll have to
learn about that...
>
>
Cheers.
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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Mick]

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On Sunday 14 January 2007 09:46, Jorge Almeida wrote:

> > I presume OpenWRT can run scripts to do something similar?
>
> I think it can run user-made scripts (that's the point, after all), but
> my experience with OpenWRT is nil. I can cook up the script easily
> enough, but I don't know about ezupdate in OpenWRT. Anyway, I don't
> really need dyndns, just knowing the IP would be enough for my modest
> needs.
> What seems great about OpenWRT is the possibility of installing
> packages. Only debian packages made for OpenWRT. I guess I'll have to
> learn about that...

Me too.  I would also like to learn how to cross compile packages for the 
router on my desktop.  If I could prepare an embedded Gentoo image for my 
router with the applications of my choice that would be grand.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Re: [gentoo-user] moving to ADSL

[Hans-Werner Hilse]

Hi,

On Sun, 14 Jan 2007 09:59:13 +0000
Mick <michaelkintzios@gmail.com> wrote:

> > What seems great about OpenWRT is the possibility of installing
> > packages. Only debian packages made for OpenWRT. I guess I'll have to
> > learn about that...
> 
> Me too.  I would also like to learn how to cross compile packages for the 
> router on my desktop.  If I could prepare an embedded Gentoo image for my 
> router with the applications of my choice that would be grand.

I'm currently running a heavily customized OpenWRT (Kamikaze, i.e.
development tree) on my WAP54g, wich only has one ethernet port and
WLAN AP facilities and has only 8MB RAM/2MB Flash and also a damned
broken TFTP boot (doesn't initialize the PHY correctly). But it
works :-)

My suggestion for gentoo-running fellows would be to check out the
development tree (using subversion) and just build the image from
scratch. It's not more complicated than configuring (they use the
buildroot environment from busybox, which is based on Kconf) your
kernel and you have plenty of options. Remember to put your router in a
state where the bootloader looks for an image via TFTP first before
booting the flash root image, and then just experiment happily away.
There's always the option to go back to the original firmware, so no
worries. Don't think, however, that you'll have an easy time to mock up
Gentoo to crosscompile for that environment, though it should be
possible, of course.

If you are happy with what OpenWRT offers by default (and there's
plenty of packages!), just use a ready-made image and install packages
using the "ipkg" tool.

-hwh
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